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#2192915 - 12/05/13 12:02 PM Casio PX-850 versus AP-650
Forestman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Canada
Hello first time posting here, and beginner piano player.

Right now in Costco Canada, the Celviano AP-650 is the same price as the PX-850, $1099. I'm looking to buy a piano in this price range. I've read some threads here and there but I still cannot decipher whose piano is better, I heard that the tonal decay for the AP-650 is not good, too artificial even, but only heard good things about the PX-850, and I like the sound of the PX-850 judging from the online videos, there are too few independent AP-650 reviews to be honest. Maybe the $500 reduction on the AP-650 is too good to be true...

They share most their specs, key-action and all, but same price, which has the better piano sound?

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#2192946 - 12/05/13 01:11 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1194
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
Assuming there is no music store near you, where you can try them, the best thing is probably to view online videos. Even though they are subjective and even though they come from Casio themselves, you can always listen to the playing and judge thereby.

Beware though, that because the sound is usually recorded from the internal sound engine of the pianos, you will not hear the loud key click, which unfortunately is a companion of most if not all Casio pianos.

You will probably get different opinions from users here, who have experienced both of these two pianos, and will either have to take the average of them or judge for yourself.

My guess from what I've read is that they are not so different in sound. The pianolike sound of the PX850 comes partly from how the cabinet of it is made and the AP-650 has a better cabinet, if my memory serves me correctly.
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

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#2192947 - 12/05/13 01:15 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 889
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2193007 - 12/05/13 03:21 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
The big thing about Casios is their common features. The controls in all their models are standardized, the action is identical from the PX150 to the AP650. The sounds on the 650 will be the same as for the PX850 and possibly across the whole ranger. But being the "flagship" it carries loads of additional voices and recording facilities as well as having adjustment capability for the piano alone.

Souinds like a bargain. I`d grab it for sure! Here`s a great demo of the AP 450.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAJWe6JW5qk
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2193051 - 12/05/13 04:36 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
galaxy4t Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 853
Loc: Lakewood, CA
Forestman
The piano action and piano sample is the same for all Privia and Celvianos. The AP-650 is similar to the PX-350 except for the cabinet, amp, speakers, and higher end features like lid simulator, string resonance and a few other features.

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#2193054 - 12/05/13 04:44 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 553
Two other differences:

The PX-850 uses a USB stick to record audio, the AP-650 uses SD card. Not a huge difference, but most people prefer USB sticks.
EDIT: My bad - they both use USB. thanks Mike. blush

Also, the AP-650 has a 17 track sequencer, the PX-850 has two tracks. Again, may not make a huge difference to you if you plan on using that feature.


Edited by Scott Hamlin (12/05/13 09:07 PM)
_________________________
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Sound, Video, Design

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#2193164 - 12/05/13 08:19 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Clumsy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/12
Posts: 60
Loc: Bangkok, Thailand
I've tried the AP-650 and it gives a very big, broad sound due to better speakers and larger cabinet. If they were the same price, I'll get the AP-650 over the PX any day.

The key click? I don't notice it much on my AP-450. May be louder than Kawai but not to the extent of unacceptable. I don't use headphones, though, but when I lower the volume, yes, I can "feel" it, but still playable. Subjective, I suppose.
_________________________
- Anirut J.
Out-of-tune mid 70's acoustic Bentley upright and Casio Celviano AP-450

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#2193252 - 12/06/13 12:26 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
a_dee Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/13
Posts: 14
hands down the AP-650 is better in every aspect as its the top model vs the lower end model of the cabinet series. Granted most of the stuff is the same, but you get a much nicer cabinet, lcd display, more sounds, more other features, and more powerful speakers. The px850 was $879 when on sale @ costco back in July. $1099 for each model today is a no brainer of course in favor of the 650.

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#2193425 - 12/06/13 10:10 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Forestman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Canada
Yeah seems like both pianos are pretty much the same, except for better cabinet (or worse if you lack space), LCD screen and some additional software for the AP-650. I doesn't justify it being priced $500 more normally, but at the same price, I think I'll go for it.

Yeah Scott, I was a bit confused by the AP not having USB connectivity, the PX has two and the AP has one looking at the specs.

Thanks for the info!

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#2193428 - 12/06/13 10:16 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
Why don`t you download the manuals (pdf) since they`re readily available from the manufacturers` sites . . . . .you`ll get a better idea then!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2193432 - 12/06/13 10:23 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Scott Hamlin Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/12
Posts: 553
Originally Posted By: Forestman


Yeah Scott, I was a bit confused by the AP not having USB connectivity, the PX has two and the AP has one looking at the specs.



I just checked the manual and with Mike. The AP-650 indeed has 2 USBs.. one for recording to a flash drive and one for connecting to a computer. I saw SD on a website that is being updated so I was confused as well. The manual is for the 650 is here, BTW:
http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP650_EN.pdf
_________________________
http://DulceLabs.com
Sound, Video, Design

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#2193448 - 12/06/13 10:50 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Forestman Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Canada
That's a good idea I didn't think of!

That's a lot of reading th-thanks...

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#2254647 - 03/31/14 03:52 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Lakatos Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 1
Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?

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#2254655 - 03/31/14 04:38 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Lakatos]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: Lakatos
Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?

It should be the same action, as I understand it.

Perhaps one has been used a lot more heavily than the others - in which case isn't a great implication. Or maybe just some variancies in production.

Or maybe the settings were different, which kind of deceived a little whilst you were playing it?

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#2254673 - 03/31/14 05:42 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Lakatos]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Lakatos
Hi all,
I have tried AP-450 , PX-780 and PX-850 side by side at a music store.
I am not sure why but the touch of PX-780 is much better then that of a AP-450.
The AP-450 keys seems very light on the unit I tried.
The key touch of the PX-850 feels very close to an acoustic and clearly beats AP-450 and PX-780 .. anyone has the same opinion too ?


You can have identical actions, but different velocity curves (to facilitate different numbers of sensors perhaps) will give a very different feel. People here experience this all the time when they play software pianos; depenmds on the settings, latency etc.

Now if you`re talkin` about playing these things switched "off" then I`ve just wasted my time . . .and anybody else`s who`s reading this.

The weather in Morecambe today is very pleasant and warm, and I`ve just scoffed a piece o` Christmas cake which they`re still selling. . .I thought you`d all be so glad to know that . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2254676 - 03/31/14 05:56 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9205
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Pete, was it proper Christmas cake (rich fruit cake with lots of sherry and brandy, covered with marzipan and then white icing)?

If so, that's the stuff of kings!

Years ago, my mum used to make two, and send half of one to me - kept me going through the long, snowy North Japan winter.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2254679 - 03/31/14 06:06 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1691
Loc: Portugal
What are you doing in Morecambe, Peter? This sounds like a real Bank Holiday type of activity - complete with Christmas cake on the day before April Fools - in the middle of Lent. How times change!
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2254682 - 03/31/14 06:24 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: toddy
What are you doing in Morecambe, Peter?


What everybody does in Morecambe - go to look at the John Bartholomew statue!

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#2254685 - 03/31/14 06:36 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1691
Loc: Portugal
We went to Morecambe once. When I was about 9. Don't remember the statue. We went because dad was trying to sell someone a swimming bath pump. Quite possibly, it was the Morecambe Council. We had egg sandwiches.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2254686 - 03/31/14 06:39 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: toddy
We went to Morecambe once. When I was about 9. Don't remember the statue. We went because dad was trying to sell someone a swimming bath pump. Quite possibly, it was the Morecambe Council. We had egg sandwiches.


I think the statue is reasonably modern? Around 2000 at a guess.

Caveat: I don't live there, though.

It's just when family go to visit there, they always seem to have a picture of the statue.

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#2254689 - 03/31/14 06:56 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1691
Loc: Portugal
Back in those days, I don't think there was a stature, no. So the only excitement at all was on Thursday afternoons, when the whole town would turn out in the high street to watch the traffic lights change.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2254691 - 03/31/14 07:08 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: toddy
Back in those days, I don't think there was a stature, no. So the only excitement at all was on Thursday afternoons, when the whole town would turn out in the high street to watch the traffic lights change.


You make it sound so dull...

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#2254701 - 03/31/14 07:47 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Kawai James]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3648
Loc: Northern England.
James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.

I live in Morecambe. It has one of the largest piano shops in the country. And the best fish and chips. . . outside Yorkshire.


Edited by peterws (03/31/14 07:50 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2254707 - 03/31/14 07:58 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: peterws]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9205
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: peterws
James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.


Yes, that's the stuff! wink
But why is Morrison's still selling Christmas cake at the end of March?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2254708 - 03/31/14 08:01 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1691
Loc: Portugal
Our mistake was to take egg sandwiches, then. I see that now, but that is with hindsight of 45 years.

In all honesty, it might not even have been egg. It could even have been those awful salmon paste things that came in those tiny little glass pots. Princes Salmon Paste. Yuk!

We were missing out on the best fish'n'chips in Lancashire just to save a couple of bob. What a pity. But that was our family, I'm afraid......and I don't recall Morecambe council ever placing that order for the water pump.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2254750 - 03/31/14 09:33 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Kawai James]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: peterws
James, the Xmas cake is a slab from Morrison`s supermarkets, Complete with marzipan (an addiction) and icing. They put Xmas wrapping on it at the appropriate time, and it is SOOOO good with a glass of med dry sherry. On a Sunday morning. And yesterday afternoon.


Yes, that's the stuff! wink
But why is Morrison's still selling Christmas cake at the end of March?

James
x

Because the stuff will outlive the zombie apocalypse, armageddon, and cockroaches.

Sell-by-dates? Pah, they're like red-braces and lunch - for wimps.

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#2254751 - 03/31/14 09:36 AM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: toddy]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: toddy
Our mistake was to take egg sandwiches, then. I see that now, but that is with hindsight of 45 years.

In all honesty, it might not even have been egg. It could even have been those awful salmon paste things that came in those tiny little glass pots. Princes Salmon Paste. Yuk!


I'm quite partial to egg-mayonnaise sandwiches. But not Princes sandwich potted pastes - oh no (said with my best John Major impression).

Originally Posted By: toddy
We were missing out on the best fish'n'chips in Lancashire


The infamous Cottage Chippy in Blackpool?

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#2254936 - 03/31/14 05:10 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Forestman
I heard that the tonal decay for the AP-650 is not good [...]


Yes, both the length of the "decay" and the "initial decay" (that fades away too quickly) are not good on the Casio's - all models are the same.

Look for something else.

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#2254941 - 03/31/14 05:16 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: pv88]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1335
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: pv88
. . .
Yes, both the length of the "decay" and the "initial decay" (that fades away too quickly) are not good on the Casio's - all models are the same.

Look for something else.


The problem is finding something else, that is significantly better, _at a similar price_.

[I'm just about to crack the "sustain problem" by buying Pianoteq -- but that's not something I'd recommend to a raw beginner.]

. Charles

PS - bias - I own a PX-350.

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#2254975 - 03/31/14 06:26 PM Re: Casio PX-850 versus AP-650 [Re: Forestman]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Poland
I would vote for cheap Roland, but you have also cheap Yamahas and Kawai. Which one is up to your taste.

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