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#2194686 - 12/08/13 07:08 PM Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122
EdwinS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Hello, this is my first post here. I've been searching and reading on this forum a lot already, looking for information, as my son needs to change his digital piano for a 'real' piano now.

I am not a piano player myself, so all this information is quite overwhelming for a newbie... Also my budget isn't that great, so I am afraid that I will make the wrong choice. So I really need some good advice here...

I thought about a Yamaha NU1 hybrid piano for a while, mostly out of consideration for my neighbours. Also I liked the idea not having to pay for tuning. But now I think it would be better for the development of my son's playing skills to play on an acoustic piano. I hope to get to some agreement with my neighbours...

So at this time we are looking at 2 piano's. They both have a nice sound, and according to my son, are nice to play on: a Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 and a Gebr. Perzina 122. The Zimmermann would be € 3.960,00 (5.429 usd), and the Perzina € 4390,00 (6,018 usd) (normally € 6390,00 (8,212 usd)). Both new piano's.

I've tried to find and read as many information as I could find about these two piano's, but can't still make up my mind. I've read a lot positive, and some negative things about both. The Zimmermann is less louder than the Perzina, in particular less bass. My neighbours will like that wink
We think they both sound very nice, though the Perzina maybe a bit warmer. My son says they both are nice to play on, the Zimmermann being a bit heavier to play on (Is that what is called the 'action'?)

And then about material and production. As far as I can tell they are both made out of good parts, but the Perzina claims to have (slightly?) better parts. The Perzina then has been assembled in China, which seems to be a negative fact for some people... And the Zimmermann in Germany, which should count as a positive fact, according to a lot of people...

So this is all the information I found and my thoughts about them. I tend to think that I should go for the Perzina, but that is mostly because it is usually much higher priced. So it seems like a good deal... The Zimmermann then is cheaper and less loud.

I just can't make up my mind here. I hope you guys will tell me what you think. Please share your thoughts with me...

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#2195213 - 12/09/13 06:24 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
EdwinS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Anyone?

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#2195224 - 12/09/13 06:38 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
Minnesota Marty Online   content

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7256
Loc: Rochester MN
Hi Edwin - Welcome to Piano World!

I think the lack of response is due to the fact that the majority of members on the forum are located in the USA and Canada. Perzina is available, but the dealers are few and far between, and I don't think that Zimmermann is available at all.

I've played a few Perzinas and liked them very much. However, I run across them so rarely that I really can't offer much of a detailed opinion.

Sorry I can't be of more help.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2195239 - 12/09/13 07:01 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2665
Loc: western Wisconsin
Exactly. I've played a handful of Perzina 122's, but never have seen or played a Zimmermann.
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#2195349 - 12/09/13 11:12 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: terminaldegree]
otherside Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 145
Here is a clip of the Zimmermann, quite good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCxx_E4pT7U&feature=player_embedded

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#2195352 - 12/09/13 11:19 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
JazzPianoOnline Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 90
Loc: raleigh, nc
Please please please don't buy a Zimmerman. They are among the worst cheapest pianos made. I can't vouch for the other brand but it's best to stay with the known quantities of Japanese and established European brands namely yamaha, kawai, go for a small grand g1 or g2 (in the case of yamaha) buy it used in Craigslist. They are readily available on the used market, inexpensive and proven workhorses with rock solid tuning stability. Have a technician inspect it before you buy.
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#2195371 - 12/10/13 12:21 AM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: JazzPianoOnline]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2702
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: JazzPianoOnline
Please please please don't buy a Zimmerman.
Which Zimmermann? How many different versions have there been? The Zimmermann's that you decry...who manufactured them, when and where? That brand has been passed around Europe & Asia, to ups and downs. I've seen poor examples myself in the past. The OP is asking about New Zimmermann pianos which are not sold or distributed here since Bechstein (parent brand) left Samick (previous majority owner) to partner with Hailun (currently building the Zimmermann) for distribution in Europe and Asia. Hailun didn't build any of the previous Zimmermanns that you probably encountered.

I've seen some older Zimmermanns that were at best unimpressive, but ... I've also seen classic American brands like Baldwin made to pathetic standards as was their "classic" series made in the '90's. While not widely known in the US, I think Zimmermann is a well established (smaller) brand in Europe where the OP is.

Perzina makes/builds/assembles good uprights in China. At that price, common sense should reassure you the Zimmermann is not made or assembled in Germany. There may be other models from Zimmermann that are, but at a higher price. Bechstein sends QC inspectors to China...I've met one of them.

In comparing them directly, see which is easier to play softly with control. That's probably the best objective measure for comparison if you enjoy the sound of both.

Good luck in your search.
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#2195373 - 12/10/13 12:24 AM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2702
Loc: Atlanta, GA
The bad Zimmermann's I remember were Czech made. I think there were decent but not high-end German ones made in the past. I don't know the whole lineage.
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PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta

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#2195377 - 12/10/13 12:39 AM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
michaelha Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 813
I've played an early 90's Zimermann, and it was horrible. But it sounds like a totally different piano.

Another possible option, depending on your used market, is a used Yamaha with a Disklavier and silent feature. I've seen used Yamaha's with the Disklavier selling for less than one without, a lot of purists out there I guess.

I've also played the NU1 and N1-N3 for maybe an hour. I still haven't decided if they're a good acoustic replacement yet, but they definitely some of the best digitals. However, I didn't like the NU1's action. If I were to get one, it'd be the N1-N3, depending on my budget. If you're going down that path you should also look at Kawai's CS10, I haven't played one either but I've heard some prefer it over Yamaha's N1-N3.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2195916 - 12/11/13 07:45 AM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
EdwinS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 3
Loc: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
I've read a lot about Zimmermann. Those piano's have a terrible reputation when build in the communist decades in east Germany. In the nineties the company was sold to Bechstein and are considered of a much better quality since then...

A silent system cost's a lot more, I can't afford that. Also, I think an acoustic piano will last much longer when being cared for decently. The NU1 has the same price as the Perzina around here. Would be an easier choice with a lower price.

It seems that Zimmermann is indeed now made in China, at least since 2011 when Hailun took over the production. But before they were made in Germany. For what it's worth...

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#2196199 - 12/11/13 05:24 PM Re: Zimmermann Z1 HZ 120 vs. Gebr. Perzina 122 [Re: EdwinS]
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
My wife and I spent a large part of our day yesterday, wringing out Perzinas.

I don't know beans about the Zimmerman, but the Perzina 122 is a very nice vertical. Some may not like the bass emphasis and some may not like the repetition speed of the action, but the action has individually weighted keys and it feels even and smooth, even if it is a Detoa action.

Finish was good, casework fit was good, overall build quality was good.

It's a lot of piano for the money.
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