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#2197312 - 12/14/13 01:06 AM A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed!
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1367
Loc: New York City
Steve Villa-Massone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ZuxtigE0M&feature=c4-overview&list=UUzHOfVPDDZj1tnN_HlaGWPw

I have to say, It's nice to hear someone composing in the old style and displaying their work publicly. This man rolls his own piano around Paris and performs for the crowds. It's interesting to hear something resembling a cross between Chopin and Liszt. He's also quite the showman which for non-piano folk seems to spark curiosity and interest.

Here's another video of him playing 3 other compositions, he has a bunch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CFFooKjQII

I would encourage everyone to listen to the entire thing, he has some good stuff.



Edited by ChopinLives81 (12/14/13 01:07 AM)
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
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#2197467 - 12/14/13 12:04 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7513
Loc: New York City
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2197472 - 12/14/13 12:12 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
YAY... Some more negativity on board!

Come on guys... This is one more composer/pianist that is not Chopin, or Rachmaninov, or Hamelin, or Horowitz... Ok...

But what does it matter? Does the community need our negative opinion on anything? Especially if there's nothing to lose, but a couple of minutes of youtube watching? Even more so, if someone is impressed by someone then so be it! Very well and very fine and dandy!
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http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2197476 - 12/14/13 12:17 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Nikolas]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
YAY... Some more negativity on board!

Come on guys... This is one more composer/pianist that is not Chopin, or Rachmaninov, or Hamelin, or Horowitz... Ok...


Hamelin is not a great composer. Horowitz would have been.


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#2197478 - 12/14/13 12:20 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Polyphonist]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.

OK, let's hear your compositions.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2197481 - 12/14/13 12:24 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
A Guy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/13
Posts: 254
Loc: St Louis
I feel his movements are over-exaggerated and just for the sake of showing off, but I like some of the music he played
_________________________
Pieces:
Soler sonata r.48
Soler sonata r.78
Haydn Hob XVI 50 movement 1
Chopin Ballade 3
Liszt Hungarian rhapsody 8
York Bowen toccata

www.youtube.com/channel/UCKqmkVdn_41vKvDG-ELy0bg

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#2197482 - 12/14/13 12:27 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: jazzyprof]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.

OK, let's hear your compositions.


1) How does that even follow?

2) Polyphonist is a competent composer.

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#2197484 - 12/14/13 12:27 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13763
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I learned about Villa-Massone about a year ago I think.It's pretty amazing what he's been able to do. I'd like to see some of his works in print, but as far as I can tell, he writes exclusively for his own (interesting!) performances.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#2197494 - 12/14/13 12:39 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.

OK, let's hear your compositions.


1) How does that even follow?

2) Polyphonist is a competent composer.

1) He's judging another composer.

2) He's judging the OP's taste.

3) I'd like to hear his own compositions.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2197495 - 12/14/13 12:41 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: jazzyprof]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
You don't have to be chef to say a meal sucked.

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#2197503 - 12/14/13 12:58 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
Joel: Hamelin has composed a set of etudes, if I'm not mistaken which are commercially available (unlike Villa-Massone, if not mistaken, or if so not from Schott (which I think is the publisher of Hamelin).

More over, yes, you don't have to be a chef to say that a meal sucked, but I think the Internet and the, what I personally call, myspace democracy, has given value to every opinion in the world, like it means something. No you don't have to be a chef to say that a meal sucked, but in order to critic publicly you should, perhaps be a critic, especially if you're all too strong about your opinions! wink
_________________________
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#2197506 - 12/14/13 01:00 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
jazzyprof Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: JoelW
You don't have to be chef to say a meal sucked.

You said
2) Polyphonist is a competent composer.

So, he's a chef dissing another chef and that chef's fans. He'd better be ready for a cook-off.
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#2197507 - 12/14/13 01:04 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
gooddog Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4781
Loc: Seattle area, WA
I liked it. Some of it sounded stylistically familiar, ideas borrowed from other composers, but they all do that. I think he's got promise. (He rocks around too much.)
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Deborah

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#2197516 - 12/14/13 01:20 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Something that most people don't get is that the "let's see you do better" fallacy goes both ways. This fallacy is based on the notion that one must possess equal credentials or skill in order to judge something. Well guess what -- judgements aren't just negative. You can judge something negatively or positively. By that fallacy's logic you would need to be a chef to even claim that a meal is good. Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.

/rant smile

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#2197518 - 12/14/13 01:21 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Nikolas]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
YAY... Some more negativity on board!

And here comes a little more. grin

Sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this, and I applaud him (although I have no idea what K finds "interesting" about his playing) ....but I have a hard time getting very far with him because of how awful the playing is on the fast/loud stuff. To me it's basically unlistenable (although I did listen, to give him a chance). It's brusque, bangy, without any significant dynamic variation or any rhythmic flair or interest, no phrasing to speak of -- he plays basically like some people who get into the amateur competitions, get big applause from some of the audience, and don't advance past the 1st round -- and really compositionally I don't find it much at all either. Although maybe if he played it more listenably I'd hear more in it. And maybe he can play better than that but is just doing a caricatured thing because of the setting where he's playing.

But sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this. Beyond that, I don't know. smile

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#2197523 - 12/14/13 01:33 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
Nikolas Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5220
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Something that most people don't get is that the "let's see you do better" fallacy goes both ways. This fallacy is based on the notion that one must possess equal credentials or skill in order to judge something. Well guess what -- judgements aren't just negative. You can judge something negatively or positively. By that fallacy's logic you would need to be a chef to even claim that a meal is good. Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.

/rant smile
I don't feel threatened AT ALL, let me assure you!

If you think about it, isn't there enough bad in the world, to keep pointing out the wrongs about anything, especially something that's not proclaimed "the GOD OF THE UNIVERSE OF MUSIC" or something?

BTW, I know that I fell into my own trap, by judging a members' post (if you think about it... ;)), but am I a chef? If so can I post what I think is wrong with all the music in the world and your taste in music? Quite not I think! wink

More over polyphonist's post was about the taste of someone else. Not just negative to a random youtube guy and his music, but about the taste of another member.

Mark: Yes his playing is exactly that: Bangy, loud, almost too careless and fast to impress. Exactly that! He's on the street, he's not on Carnegie Hall. And your post isn't exactly on the too negative side... just slightly...
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#2197530 - 12/14/13 01:54 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
But Nikolas, you DO have the right judge whatever you want. It's a wonderful thing. grin

I know it seems like Polyphonist's remark was rude but I don't think it's a big deal. His opinion of OP's taste is simply the expression of his own taste.

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#2197531 - 12/14/13 01:58 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
I only listened at first, but this time I went back and watched the video. I wonder how that guy doesn't get wrist/hand pain. His octave technique is so horribly tense, and he's using excessive amounts of vertical movement. eek

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#2197536 - 12/14/13 02:11 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: JoelW
....I wonder how that guy doesn't get wrist/hand pain....

He's pretty young. Give him time. grin

Prediction: Someone like that either arrives at a better way of playing within some years (not that many), or he quits. I'd guess the first.

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#2197539 - 12/14/13 02:16 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Mark_C]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4762
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: JoelW
....I wonder how that guy doesn't get wrist/hand pain....

He's pretty young. Give him time. grin

Prediction: Someone like that either arrives at a better way of playing within some years (not that many), or he quits. I'd guess the first.


I'm only 18 and let me tell you, if I played that way for 5 minutes my hand would hurt like heck. cry

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#2197541 - 12/14/13 02:21 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3846
Loc: Rockford, IL
*I'm* impressed...

One thing to keep in mind about "bangy" is the limitations of this particular piano, featured in the OP's link. Something that I learned over in the Tuner/Tech forum is that it is very easy to "overdrive" a small piano (which this Rameau is--small, and out of tune, exposed to the elements as it is.)

*IF* you come at it from a more imaginative perspective, in a way that is ready to appreciate rather than denigrate, and picture it with your mind's eyes and ears played on a well-tuned concert or conservatory grand, you might get a different picture. Play "what if" for a minute.

Even without using my imagination, though, I like what this man is doing. He's playing! I hear a lot of things in and through his music that, imho, are quite wonderful!


Edited by Cinnamonbear (12/14/13 02:23 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2197543 - 12/14/13 02:24 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Cinnamonbear]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Cinnamonbear
....*IF* you come at it from a more imaginative perspective, in a way that is ready to appreciate rather than denigrate, and picture it with your mind's eyes and ears played on a well-tuned concert or conservatory grand, you might get a different picture....

What makes you think I didn't try to do that? grin
(I did. Pretty hard too. I tried to give him every benefit of the doubt.)

Quote:
Even without using my imagination, though, I like what this man is doing.

As I said, I do too.
In a generic sense. ha

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#2197546 - 12/14/13 02:31 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7513
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.

OK, let's hear your compositions.

If you're actually interested, which I doubt, they can be found on this site. And...

Originally Posted By: JoelW
Something that most people don't get is that the "let's see you do better" fallacy goes both ways. This fallacy is based on the notion that one must possess equal credentials or skill in order to judge something. Well guess what -- judgements aren't just negative. You can judge something negatively or positively. By that fallacy's logic you would need to be a chef to even claim that a meal is good. Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.

Well said.

If I had a dollar for every time someone has tried to use this fallacy on me, I would not be a musician. grin
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2197556 - 12/14/13 02:42 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1367
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
YAY... Some more negativity on board!

And here comes a little more. grin

Sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this, and I applaud him (although I have no idea what K finds "interesting" about his playing) ....but I have a hard time getting very far with him because of how awful the playing is on the fast/loud stuff. To me it's basically unlistenable (although I did listen, to give him a chance). It's brusque, bangy, without any significant dynamic variation or any rhythmic flair or interest, no phrasing to speak of -- he plays basically like some people who get into the amateur competitions, get big applause from some of the audience, and don't advance past the 1st round -- and really compositionally I don't find it much at all either. Although maybe if he played it more listenably I'd hear more in it. And maybe he can play better than that but is just doing a caricatured thing because of the setting where he's playing.

But sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this. Beyond that, I don't know. smile


I think everyone seems to be confusing compositional skill and performance skill. Yes he does have an exaggerated bangy way of playing, but that doesn't reduce the melody, structure and overall idea of the piece in any way. I can sit down and bang out Chopin's op.9 no.2 Nocturne, that doesn't mean it's a crappy composition.

I'm looking beyond his performance. To hear music that doesn't sound like a movie soundtrack is refreshing. Lets take his compositions for what they are and imagine them playing in a more controlled and subtle way.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#2197557 - 12/14/13 02:43 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
I think everyone seems to be confusing compositional skill and performance skill....
I'm looking beyond his performance....Lets take his compositions for what they are and imagine them playing in a more controlled and subtle way.

You missed where I talked about that too. (It's in what you quoted.)

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#2197562 - 12/14/13 02:52 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1367
Loc: New York City
No I saw it, that's why I started with "Everyone seems" It was more to emphasize my thoughts and yours.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#2197565 - 12/14/13 02:53 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: ChopinLives81]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Oh OK -- I thought I was part of "everyone." grin

But besides, most people are being very POSITIVE about both his playing and his composition! (So, it looked like you were talking to those few of us who aren't.)

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#2197567 - 12/14/13 02:55 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: JoelW]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19228
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".

It's the same idea that some master class givers can give a lot of criticism but not be perceived as being mean or pedagogically inappropriate.

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#2197581 - 12/14/13 03:17 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: pianoloverus]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7513
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".

Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2197620 - 12/14/13 04:55 PM Re: A modern day romantic composer? Color me impressed! [Re: Polyphonist]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19228
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: JoelW
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".

Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement
Has nothing to do with my post. One can refute the central point(highest on the hierarchy) and still do it in an arrogant or mean way.


Edited by pianoloverus (12/14/13 04:56 PM)

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