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One thing to keep in mind about "bangy" is the limitations of this particular piano, featured in the OP's link. Something that I learned over in the Tuner/Tech forum is that it is very easy to "overdrive" a small piano (which this Rameau is--small, and out of tune, exposed to the elements as it is.)
*IF* you come at it from a more imaginative perspective, in a way that is ready to appreciate rather than denigrate, and picture it with your mind's eyes and ears played on a well-tuned concert or conservatory grand, you might get a different picture. Play "what if" for a minute.
Even without using my imagination, though, I like what this man is doing. He's playing! I hear a lot of things in and through his music that, imho, are quite wonderful!
....*IF* you come at it from a more imaginative perspective, in a way that is ready to appreciate rather than denigrate, and picture it with your mind's eyes and ears played on a well-tuned concert or conservatory grand, you might get a different picture....
What makes you think I didn't try to do that? (I did. Pretty hard too. I tried to give him every benefit of the doubt.)
Quote
Even without using my imagination, though, I like what this man is doing.
All I can say is, if this impresses you, you're pretty easy to impress.
OK, let's hear your compositions.
If you're actually interested, which I doubt, they can be found on this site. And...
Originally Posted by JoelW
Something that most people don't get is that the "let's see you do better" fallacy goes both ways. This fallacy is based on the notion that one must possess equal credentials or skill in order to judge something. Well guess what -- judgements aren't just negative. You can judge something negatively or positively. By that fallacy's logic you would need to be a chef to even claim that a meal is good. Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Well said.
If I had a dollar for every time someone has tried to use this fallacy on me, I would not be a musician.
Sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this, and I applaud him (although I have no idea what K finds "interesting" about his playing) ....but I have a hard time getting very far with him because of how awful the playing is on the fast/loud stuff. To me it's basically unlistenable (although I did listen, to give him a chance). It's brusque, bangy, without any significant dynamic variation or any rhythmic flair or interest, no phrasing to speak of -- he plays basically like some people who get into the amateur competitions, get big applause from some of the audience, and don't advance past the 1st round -- and really compositionally I don't find it much at all either. Although maybe if he played it more listenably I'd hear more in it. And maybe he can play better than that but is just doing a caricatured thing because of the setting where he's playing.
But sure, I applaud the idea of stuff like this. Beyond that, I don't know.
I think everyone seems to be confusing compositional skill and performance skill. Yes he does have an exaggerated bangy way of playing, but that doesn't reduce the melody, structure and overall idea of the piece in any way. I can sit down and bang out Chopin's op.9 no.2 Nocturne, that doesn't mean it's a crappy composition.
I'm looking beyond his performance. To hear music that doesn't sound like a movie soundtrack is refreshing. Lets take his compositions for what they are and imagine them playing in a more controlled and subtle way.
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."
I think everyone seems to be confusing compositional skill and performance skill.... I'm looking beyond his performance....Lets take his compositions for what they are and imagine them playing in a more controlled and subtle way.
You missed where I talked about that too. (It's in what you quoted.)
But besides, most people are being very POSITIVE about both his playing and his composition! (So, it looked like you were talking to those few of us who aren't.)
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".
It's the same idea that some master class givers can give a lot of criticism but not be perceived as being mean or pedagogically inappropriate.
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".
Any chance we could stay on topic and talk about Villa-Massone?
Please?
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
My opinion: Lots of notes. I like some of the harmonic developments. And I guess you have to be in good physical condition to play these pieces.
About the playing: The composer posted a comment below the second video.
Originally Posted by STEVE VILLA-MASSONE
The noisy environment, the fact that I play in streets should be considered. It's also a logical thing, when I play on any concert hall, on a good piano for exemple, I have a different approach of my own compositions, I put more attenuations... and it is also normal. But trust me, on the street, in some particular noisy areas, you have to play in a different way. And fortunatly, most of passers are focusing on my own music, and not on my gestures.
So I guess: If you like his music, you like his music. Nothing wrong with it, I guess.
My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG. My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Of course, nobody ever says "let's see how well you cook" with regards to a positive judgement. No, only defensive people whip this fallacy out when they feel threatened.
Because being nice to someone(saying something positive) vs. being nasty(many of the criticisms are in this category) are very different kinds of critiques. It's not only about whether the comment is positive or negative but about how it's phrased. When a negative comment is not phrased in a mean or arrogant tone, it rarely gets a comments about "let's see you do better than the person you're criticizing".
....About the playing: The composer posted a comment below the second video.
Originally Posted by STEVE VILLA-MASSONE
The noisy environment, the fact that I play in streets should be considered. It's also a logical thing, when I play on any concert hall, on a good piano for exemple, I have a different approach of my own compositions, I put more attenuations... and it is also normal. But trust me, on the street, in some particular noisy areas, you have to play in a different way...
Well, there we go. Good to see! I'd like to see how he might play these things in a different environment!
![[Linked Image]](http://forums.macresource.com/smileys/dunno.gif)
....but I have a hard time getting very far with him because of how awful the playing is on the fast/loud stuff. To me it's basically unlistenable (although I did listen, to give him a chance). It's brusque, bangy, without any significant dynamic variation or any rhythmic flair or interest, no phrasing to speak of -- he plays basically like some people who get into the amateur competitions, get big applause from some of the audience, and don't advance past the 1st round -- and really compositionally I don't find it much at all either. Although maybe if he played it more listenably I'd hear more in it. And maybe he 
