Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2197685 - 12/14/13 08:01 PM playing trills
adultpianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 540
who likes playing trills or ornaments as some people call them? I want to get better so I am deliberately chosing pieces which contain trills.

grin

Top
(ads P/S)

Sauter Pianos

#2197773 - 12/14/13 11:11 PM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
ElleC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/13
Posts: 248
Loc: NJ, USA
They can be a b*tch to learn but it really does add something to a song. I usually don't add the trills until I'm comfortable playing the entire piece without. At least that's how I've learned it. Anyone else learn ornamentation differently?
_________________________
Adult beginner since January 2013. My only regret is that I didn't learn sooner.

Top
#2197819 - 12/15/13 03:33 AM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3532
Yes I like them smile
Baroque music is filled with them. Check Couperin, he takes the first 6 pages to explain all the ornaments.

I usually add them directly. It's part of the interpretation how you want to play them. Even with all the explaintions, there are still choices as usual.

But yes it is good to leave them out first, to get a better idea of the melody line of the music. Because of my direct adding, they sometimes get too much emphasis if they shouldn't
_________________________

Top
#2197849 - 12/15/13 07:24 AM Re: playing trills [Re: wouter79]
Ragdoll Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 672
Loc: Illinois
Quote:
But yes it is good to leave them out first, to get a better idea of the melody line of the music.


And sometimes leave them out period IMO. At least an excess of them. I have heard so many "interpretations" with an abundance of ornamentation that it nearly obscures the melody completely.

Reminiscent of scat singing the "National Anthem". Like that I mean. Judicious use of them can enhance music certainly just as excessive use can ruin a great composition and performance. frown

Disclaimer: This opinion is not directed to wouter79 specifically or anyone else here, just an observation and IMHO. smile
_________________________
Ragdoll

Just be yourself, everyone else is already taken.


Top
#2197851 - 12/15/13 07:33 AM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
Saranoya Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 620
Loc: Brussels, Belgium
Trills were probably easier to do on the instruments Baroque music was written for than they are on a modern piano. Hence their overabundance in the music of that time, I suppose.

Chopin liked them a lot, too, and he wrote for the modern piano (well, close enough), but he was also a very skilled pianist.

My teacher always tells me to postpone adding trills until I have a piece down pat. Sometimes, I listen laugh.
_________________________
Beginner with some priors since 9/2012

Currently Playable
Bach 846, 926, 930
Beethoven 27/2 mvt. 1
Burgmüller 100/3, 4, 7, 12, 15, 19, 25
Chopin 72/1
Clementi 36/1
Grieg 12/1, 7
Tchaikovsky 39/9

Future
Burgmüller 109
Bartok Sz 56
Mozart K331

Top
#2197997 - 12/15/13 02:54 PM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
earlofmar Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1582
Loc: Australia
I will like them better when my ring finger decides to get serious
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXV-6-XXX

Top
#2198041 - 12/15/13 03:54 PM Re: playing trills [Re: earlofmar]
lautreamont Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 16
I'm getting more and more comfortable with them as I get practice. A week ago I was flustered in Chopin, because there were many mordents that required the 3+4 fingers. My fingers simply couldn't do it up to speed, or, once they were up to speed, they were far too loud, but, a week later, after daily practice, they're much better, although far from perfect. I'm not daunted when I come across them, at least.

Like everything with the piano, it's something that boils down to practice.

Top
#2198661 - 12/16/13 04:30 PM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3532
ring finger (4th) is very poor with fast repeats and trills. Luckily in 99% of the cases you can work around it. I remember one place where I needed to keep another note down with 1. All other trills were with 1,2,3.

Mordents with 4 are much easier because it does not require repetition.
_________________________

Top
#2198810 - 12/16/13 08:29 PM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
Stubbie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/16/10
Posts: 390
Loc: Midwest USA
For those of you who leave adding the trills/ornaments until last, is it hard to "unlearn" the no-frills version and insert the trill/ornament?
_________________________
Wherever you go, there you are.


Top
#2198825 - 12/16/13 09:15 PM Re: playing trills [Re: Stubbie]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5314
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Stubbie
For those of you who leave adding the trills/ornaments until last, is it hard to "unlearn" the no-frills version and insert the trill/ornament?

Depends on your technique and ability levels. I can do this either way, but I typically find adding specific notes (as opposed to ad-libbing) more difficult than subtracting (on the fly, especially).

If, however, you have difficulty discerning "important" notes, you might find subtracting nearly impossible, but you might be far better at adding.

Just depends.. smile
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

Top
#2198862 - 12/16/13 11:00 PM Re: playing trills [Re: adultpianist]
plbpusa Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 10
Loc: FL USA
I agree. Practice makes perfect! Merry Christmas smile

Top
#2198952 - 12/17/13 04:06 AM Re: playing trills [Re: Stubbie]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 984
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Stubbie
For those of you who leave adding the trills/ornaments until last, is it hard to "unlearn" the no-frills version and insert the trill/ornament?


It shouldn't be too hard as long as you use the right fingering from the very start, the one you will use with the trills and all.

Btw, Graham Fitch has a video on trills and ornaments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC6bgBA8en8
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

Top
#2199132 - 12/17/13 01:11 PM Re: playing trills [Re: sinophilia]
lautreamont Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 16
I saw a video a few nights ago on youtube that had an interesting method of attacking trills. Instead of practicing with leaving out the trill, simply repeat a single one of the notes of the trill with one finger. This sort of gives you a speed limit of the trill (ie, this note will sound so many times in the time it takes the trill). Then, when it comes time to actually play the trill, you just play the trill with the second note added. It doesn't sound like that great of a help, but, to me, it really helps make the trill fluid--rather than flailing by simply playing as fast as you can, you have a definite number of notes to play.

This helped me a lot, since my trills tend to be uneven, often starting slower and then quickening pace.

Also, doing it this way helps ensure that your fingering stays the same when it comes time to play the entire trill.


Edited by lautreamont (12/17/13 01:11 PM)

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Associate Diploma repertoire
by lacrymosa85
09/17/14 07:55 AM
Questions for those that use dremel for hammer shaping.
by UnrightTooner
09/17/14 07:29 AM
Pianoteq vs Digital Piano vs Acoustic Piano
by wildpig
09/16/14 11:57 PM
Baldwin Hamilton 1941
by JMN12
09/16/14 11:13 PM
Tucson, AZ: Is Arizona Room a bad place for a piano?
by Paul678
09/16/14 08:14 PM
Who's Online
119 registered (ando, accordeur, allakart, *windowlicker*, 34 invisible), 1257 Guests and 17 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76230 Members
42 Forums
157575 Topics
2314594 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission