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Ok, I practiced CORRECTLY today. Slowly, working on one or two precise things that I wanted to see visible improvement on and that had been specifically corrected by my teacher yesterday. For example, I am and have been neglecting my right hand pinky finger and letting it collapse when it should not, and using kind of the side of my hand to create the sound when it should be coming down more directly with my arm better aligned behind it and supporting it. This is getting better on scales, but dumped like a bad habit when I'm playing pieces badly. And it's quite disastrous in the middle section of the rachmaninoff where basically the entire melody is fast, singing out, and in mostly played by a fast, strong, and accurately relocating right hand pinky finger.
Yeah.
I slowed way down, and after a lot of work on that and a lot of broken chords up and down the keyboard, I am actually sore right in the muscle that runs up the side of the forearm from the pinky in the right hand.
Learned the entire last section I had been avoiding, concentrating on repetitive patterns to focus on in the large jumps and chromatic movements of the chords.
I did not get to the Haydn, but that was two hours (good lord the time passes quickly when I'm playing--badly or well!)
I tried to strike when the fewest people would be around and of the one person whose sensibilities I was most concerned about was there for the thing I was most concerned this person should be subjected to yet again, I actually gave a quick rundown as I went to practice as to what I was going to do (repeat THIS section slowly THIS way) and for how long (should take me about 45 minutes to make the progress I want to make) and wouldn't you know it? I felt good about that, I had given useful parameters to all involved. I think it helped to know what was going to happen and for how long.
So I live to practice another day.
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Glad it went better today
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
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I'm nevertheless a bit startled to read that Roland V-Piano was insufficient as an acoustic replacement. But TwoSnowFlakes, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by these words:
But when I got home I realized that while I was certainly better off in general having had it, certain elements of the sound I was producing had been a bit...assisted.
What was "assisted", was it that some dynamics or expression was falsely reflected compared to playing an acoustic? Can you explain this more specificly? Or do you mean your playing changed, as compared to playing the acoustic piano, to make up for something in the music the Roland failed to deliver, but was delivered when playing the acoustic piano? Failed to deliver? No, it was actually quite the opposite. There was a general roundness of tone and even decay and resonance that was not nearly as perfect when I went to go play it on the acoustic. This persisted even after I had readjusted to the different instrument. It was just...rougher. I THOUGHT I was playing extremely evenly and equally resonantly and with a certain control of sound that I was not. It was similar, but not to the standard I thought I had achieved it. Were I an expert pianist, I would already HAVE the skill and the sound would be more consistent between digital and acoustic, if that makes sense. There's a poster here who has as his primary instrument a Roland V Piano, and often has occasion to play acoustic grands and finds little adjustment is necessary. But he trained to a much higher level than I am now on acoustics and now his...risk of there being a difference between expectation and result when moving between digital and acoustic is going to be a lot smaller than for me. It's the same reason my teacher can play all day on a digital successfully and then come to my house and sound amazing and coax out all the things she wants me to do but am still learning to do. I do not have some kind of concert grand, this is true, but I do have a fairly nice piano that is well regarded here on the forums--it is in tune and well-regulated. The general roughness persisted on another piano that was also young, well tuned and IS one of your "creme de la creme" pianos. Now, this is not the fault of the Roland--it's MY fault. It was almost as if the Roland had more...fudge room to sound as if you're doing something you're not, I think. That's more a testament to how GOOD it is as a digital instrument, not how BAD it is. It seems to me that I need to be a better pianist to feel confident that the sound I'm making on the Roland is going to be closer to evenness of tone/general sound that I would be making if I were playing this on a large concert grand. I should have known that something so even was almost artificially even. And while that's desirable in a lot of respects (and I'm glad the state of the art has progressed to where focusing on the last remaining unsolvable differences sounds persnickety), it's not when you're trying to learn how to do it in a different kind of instrument that requires you to do something else. But when I say "doing something you're not" I'm really digging in the margins here. For already-advanced acoustic pianists as well as those who have other goals that don't require or purposefully seek out the differences, a great digital like a Roland v-piano probably wants for practically nothing. I guess the point is, it's not a good or a bad thing, necessarily, depending on what you want, it's just recognizing that the two ARE different, even though they can vastly and satisfyingly resemble one another to surprising degrees these days on the things that can be faithfully reproduced digitally. Most people don't notice the difference, and those that do can choose not to care if there are other, rational reasons for playing it. Again, I'm just glad we've got things out there good enough that the differences now matter only when intentionally focused on. Or, in my case, unwittingly relied upon not to exist in that way, lol!
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I once played the love theme from “Romeo and Juliet” on a acoustic 11 foot Grand in a high school auditorium ( empty ) and honestly, it did not sound as brilliant as the amplified digital I play at home .
I think this is kind of my point. Depending on what you're listening for, and assuming the piano was a good quality instrument, the grand would sound better no matter what. Maybe you just have your amp set a particular way and prefer it and don't like the sound coming back at you from a big empty room, but even in that case, the primary sound coming at you from the instrument directly should have been superior if both pianos required you to play the same way. And if it's not, there are probably good reasons for this, again, assuming the acoustic is a good instrument and well maintained and in tune. Many in school auditoriums most decidedly are not, no matter what their size! Anyway, your digital is either good enough quality that it's given you that "boost" of evenness of primary tone I experienced, or it's different enough from an acoustic piano that the reason you don't like the result is that you don't play the 11 foot acoustic piano. You play the digital piano. Like maybe you play the violin and are then asked to play a viola. Not to drag another au pair into the discussion unwittingly, but one of our pairs was an accomplished violist. Well, she still is, but she's not currently our au pair, haha. She did not bring her viola with her the summer she spent with us because she did not expect to have time to work on it, and didn't think it would be ok to practice. Anyway, my mother was a violinist and has a really lovely violin. She was thrilled to have an outlet to play, but even after she'd made the physical adjustment she was constantly apologizing for her playing--she could not produce everything she wanted to produce. Well, I can tell you she sounded terrific. But I grant it was probably frustrating to have been trained to control certain kinds of acoustic elements of her instrument and be unable to get it in a different instrument. Even if to the world of non-violists, she was doing a bang-up job. heck, just being able to read the c-clef without having to dedicate enormous mental resources simply to not have to slow down looks like maaaaaaagic to me. And she was doing that, effectively, the other way.
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I do think that the perceived roughness in an acoustic is what attracts people to it, myself included. It does have a life of it`s own and always - other people sound better on `em!
Others probably think you sound better on it than them . . . Stop worrying! Smoothness isn`t part of the package . . . (is it?)
"I am not a man. I am a free number" " "
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Wow, this discussion moved on so quickly! I just want to say that I don't find playing a digital detrimental to one's practice - provided you also play the acoustic regularly. I play both every day, usually practicing different things on each one, and then reversing.
The digital no longer feels and sounds as good as I thought now that I have a real piano, the keys make lots of noise and they are much lighter. The sound is so-so and I have a harder time playing double notes and chords on it (weird but true!). Sometimes I think the resonance of the acoustic actually masks some minor defects, and everything just sounds better! But it comforts me to know that if I want to bang on the keys for one hour at 2 pm to study jazz or ragtime or boogie-woogie, or to repeat a phrase a hundred times at different speeds etc., I can sit at the digital and I won't bother anyone. It also feels good to put the headphones on and be isolated from all the noise around. I keep my acoustic practice for the late morning, when I usually practice more mellow and melodic pieces.
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I do think that the perceived roughness in an acoustic is what attracts people to it, myself included. It does have a life of it`s own and always - other people sound better on `em!
Others probably think you sound better on it than them . . . Stop worrying! Smoothness isn`t part of the package . . . (is it?) Interesting you should write this. I have a small digital that I keep at mother's house. Mama's ninety so I'm there a good bit. Years ago I liked that little digital. I thought I sounded better on it. I think it may be some indication of my progress that I've come to dread practicing on it. I feel it's limitations acutely and have come to thoroughly dislike the sound and especially the feel of it. I infinitely prefer the small grand I have at home elderly though it is.
Slow down and do it right.
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You have a challenge over there.
Can you take a strict amount of time each day? Would that relieve the family?
Can you do mental play to replace physical play? Some pianists claim they can do all exercises in their mind, and some even claim to have done concerts and recordings with ONLY mental preparation.
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I do think that the perceived roughness in an acoustic is what attracts people to it, myself included. It does have a life of it`s own and always - other people sound better on `em!
Others probably think you sound better on it than them . . . Stop worrying! Smoothness isn`t part of the package . . . (is it?) No, no, the roughness was my playing. A better player would have played that on my acoustic with the even delicate touch I thought I'd mastered. It was only when I sat back down at an acoustic that I realized I was not playing as well as I thought and the sound from the Roland was "assisting" me by producing such even tone from what ultimately was not the most even of touch.
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You have a challenge over there.
Can you take a strict amount of time each day? Would that relieve the family?
Can you do mental play to replace physical play? Some pianists claim they can do all exercises in their mind, and some even claim to have done concerts and recordings with ONLY mental preparation. I do a lot of off piano thinking and planning at times. I don't try to use it to replace actual practicing, though I will read through a score now and again if I simply need to memorize something. There's a lot of physical movement I have to master and pattern and I'm not sure I'm good enough to use off-piano pactice for very much other than, say, working out the notes of something. But I read music just fine so that's not something I really need time to do before I sit down and play something new. Maybe complicated fingering? Or working out the harmonic structure of a piece for purposes of understanding it better? Pinky pushups? lol!
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By the way, my toddler son somehow always seems to have an innate sense of saying the right thing when I need to hear it.
Last night he randomly came up to me at the piano in his superhero PJs, hair wet and combed back post-bath and smelling like baby shampoo. He kissed me on my elbow and said, "I will never stop liking your songs."
Awwwwww.
"Why do you like them?"
"Because I love you."
Double awwww....
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I have been following this thread with interest.
I am a very practical person and this discussion reminds me of the tennis player who insists on using the rackets from the "old days" when "tennis was tennis" even though the new rackets would make him much more successful with a lot less effort.
The question here, as I see it, is whether to switch to a digital piano (the new) instead of continuing work at mastering the acoustic (the old) even though playing the digital will give a better result to our ears with less effort.
Now, I realize this position will set off a firestorm of retorts about how the sound of a digital cannot compare to the sound of an acoustic but I have not been hearing that from the OP.
I am hearing her say ... Even though it sounds better, I know it must be because the instrument is more forgiving of my inadequacies and therefore that must be bad. She wants the instrument to force her to be absolutely perfect or penalize her with a bad sound.
So, as I interpret this ...
This is more about trying to master the instrument that is most difficult to master than it is about playing music beautifully.
Ok, lol ... Bring it on (the firestorm) ....
Don
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He kissed me on my elbow and said, "I will never stop liking your songs." What an awesome kid! He must have been reading this thread.
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
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Well, Don, you mostly got it. I didn't want to get into it because this thread really wasn't designed to go into "digital vs. acoustic" but there are other drawbacks to the digital.
I did like the sound, but I liked it more because it was incredible to me how far it had come, not because I objectively preferred it to an acoustic. Unfortunately, there still ARE issues I don't like. It's a really awe-inspiringly good substitute, but it is still a substitute. I can hear it's a substitute in other ways. I don't like those ways, but I can still marvel at how far the state of the art has come.
So, the truth is that I am learning to play the instrument digital pianos are endeavoring to imitate. And it is still notable to my ear that digitals are endeavoring to imitate acoustics and not the other way around, no matter how good at it they've gotten. It's still a compromise, though a very good one at this point for many, many people.
It must be, obviously, or I would not have considered buying one in order to take some of the audible load off the acoustic piano. But thinking it through the way my teacher presented it, it's true that what I would need to use the acoustic for and not the digital are the things I would be buying the digital for, unfortunately.
Thus, from a strictly pragmatic perspective based on what I had shared so far, the suggestion I simply play the instrument I'm better at playing is not an unreasonable thing to suggest. But the additional information is that I DO prefer acoustics; there are things I like about the sound coming from it that I can tell are not present in the digital no matter how great of a substitute it is, and thus it is worth it to me to learn to play the acoustic piano well. If ALL I had was that Roland V Piano, I would enjoy playing it, but not be taking lessons and working hard at getting better, if that helps you understand what the v-Piano can't quite inspire in me, sound-wise.
Before I got my grand piano, I DID have a piano. It was an old and tiny spinet and I spent a lot of years ignoring it because nothing I did on it sounded good no matter how hard I tried to work with it. I simply discovered that I was as good as I cared to be for it. It was fine to sit down and noodle around with old stuff every once in a long while, but as soon as I would get serious about trying to work on things, it was quickly revealed how little I liked it. the Roland probably would have inspired me more, but even it would not get me to the point of, itself, driving me to be better. But my current piano? When played well, its sound is something above the threshhold of something I love, and will work as hard as necessary to get good enough to make that sound myself.
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By the way, my toddler son somehow always seems to have an innate sense of saying the right thing when I need to hear it.
Last night he randomly came up to me at the piano in his superhero PJs, hair wet and combed back post-bath and smelling like baby shampoo. He kissed me on my elbow and said, "I will never stop liking your songs."
Awwwwww.
"Why do you like them?"
"Because I love you."
Double awwww.... awwwwwwwww...that's just so sweet.
18 ABF Recitals, Order of the Red Dot European Piano Parties - Brussels, Lisbon, Lucern, Milan, Malaga, St. Goar Themed recitals: Grieg and Great American Songbook
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SnowFlake:
That is fair enough. There are qualities you value in the acoustic that are not possible with the digital. I understand and accept that.
Truthfully, I was playing devil's advocate somewhat with my comments. I am quite sure there are subtleties about the sound of an acoustic which, as of yet, have not been able to be duplicated with digitals. And, if you are motivated (as you appear to be) to work toward mastering those subtleties then that is a good thing.
I went back to earlier posts of yours and must say that you do play beautifully. What you are doing is working. Keep it up.
Last edited by dmd; 12/18/13 10:52 AM.
Don
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He kissed me on my elbow and said, "I will never stop liking your songs." What an awesome kid! He must have been reading this thread. He can read?!? Oh happy day! LOL! Little bugger is still mixing up his English and Spanish (we lived in Spain when he was starting to talk) and reading is pretty far off. On the other hand, I showed him how to find middle C, and he quickly learned how to find all the other c's on the piano. He also describes how music makes him feel all the time, and it's adorable and reveals a really cool and innate musical sense. But with the no reading and the fact that you've got, at most, five minutes before he wiggles away from you to do something else, and there's no piano lessons for him yet! My teacher has seen what I'm talking about and really wanted to start with him. She says she's worked with pre-readers before. She says all he has to be able to do is concentrate for half an hour. I laughed and said, "yeah, we're at five minutes. A half hour in your dreams." She didn't believe me but sure enough, when summoned, he did everything she asked for approximately four minutes, and then instantly could not be cajoled into more: Her: "Hey, can you do this? [plays triad]" Him: "Do you like superheroes? I do!" "Sometimes, but I like piano better! Hey, can you do this?" "Ooh, helicopters fly really high, don't they?" And thus our eyes met and we let him scamper off. This despite him greeting my teacher with hugs and kisses every time she comes, and asking for lessons. Next year. Until then I'll just keep playing all the stuff he likes while we're in the car, talking about music and feelings, and wait for my elbow kisses. At least his musical tastes run with mine so he's got opinions and feelings for everything from Bach to Prokofiev--sometimes I can't even change the song myself because he'll make me go back and hear the rest, so liking the kind of music he would ultimately be learning to play is not our problem. So maybe she'll show him a thing or two in the meantime for a minute or two here and there and call them "lessons" so he can start feeling like a big boy who plays piano with the teacher he already looks up to so much until he naturally has the attention span to follow through with something he CLEARLY has the inherent interest to learn to do. When it's there, the time he is capable of spending will naturally get longer because wanting to do it at all is not his problem. Attention span is.
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Very interesting thread, so thanks to everyone contributing and to TwoSnowflakes for her thoughtful responses. I just had a thought to contribute about the "mind-reading" component to worrying about how others feel about hearing us practice.
I'm sure there are others like me -- might any others want to come out of the woodwork? I find the sound of musicians' practice very soothing. It's not quite music, so it doesn't really hold my attention, but it's generally tuneful and harmonious enough to be one of my favorite forms of urban background noise. For years I my bedroom faced into the kitchen practice space of a very active local musician, and I loved falling asleep listening to him work.
Please step aside. You're standing in your own way.
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If not even the family can stand a proper practice... of course the neighbours won't. Maybe not annoying others is more important than developing the same technic as a professional? Is perfection so important for an aficionado -or a professional- that is put ahead of respect to others? Especially when with aficionados normally friends and family won´t know the difference and we cannot talk of somebody ever reaching a professional level playing solo concerts internationally, recording and composing. You are obviously concerned about others, which is very good. But you do know that the only time you won´t be disturbing them is when they cannot hear you. If this means that it will take you longer to practice and learn a piece, so be it. Otherwise you know that you are imposing your piano playing over the right of others. If you live in a detached house with a music room for an acoustic, no problem whatsoever, you can close the door and the others can find something else to amuse themselves, hopefully without disturbing your practice so that you can reach perfection. If this is not the case, and you still want to play at the time you wish, a silent or a digital simply need to be considered. I'm a mere aficionado, but even if I had the chance of becoming a professional I certainly would be wary of creating a problem to others. Unrequested music, specially practice music is a noise for others, coming from an aficionado or a professional musician. tangleweeds, I think you are an exception to the rule... If I felt like you I would definitely look for a place by a noisy musician and demand a reduction in price/rent as very few people would be happy to live there. Would you be interested in buying a very nice flat in Spain? Just my 2 cents. (Right now properly suffering for over an hour and a half so far the saxo playing of my mum's upstairs neighbour; just waiting for him to take the clarinet out and hoping the reed (?) will be broken and stop his practice... that's how much we love his practice music)
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If not even the family can stand a proper practice... of course the neighbours won't. Maybe not annoying others is more important than developing the same technic as a professional? Is perfection so important for an aficionado -or a professional- that is put ahead of respect to others? Especially when with aficionados normally friends and family won´t know the difference and we cannot talk of somebody ever reaching a professional level playing solo concerts internationally, recording and composing. You are obviously concerned about others, which is very good. But you do know that the only time you won´t be disturbing them is when they cannot hear you. If this means that it will take you longer to practice and learn a piece, so be it. Otherwise you know that you are imposing your piano playing over the right of others. If you live in a detached house with a music room for an acoustic, no problem whatsoever, you can close the door and the others can find something else to amuse themselves, hopefully without disturbing your practice so that you can reach perfection. If this is not the case, and you still want to play at the time you wish, a silent or a digital simply need to be considered. I'm a mere aficionado, but even if I had the chance of becoming a professional I certainly would be wary of creating a problem to others. Unrequested music, specially practice music is a noise for others, coming from an aficionado or a professional musician. tangleweeds, I think you are an exception to the rule... If I felt like you I would definitely look for a place by a noisy musician and demand a reduction in price/rent as very few people would be happy to live there. Would you be interested in buying a very nice flat in Spain? Just my 2 cents. (Right now properly suffering for over an hour and a half so far the saxo playing of my mum's upstairs neighbour; just waiting for him to take the clarinet out and hoping the reed (?) will be broken and stop his practice... that's how much we love his practice music) The neighbors cannot hear me. I live in a detached single family house. And I DID live in a city apartment dead center in the middle of Madrid, Spain. But that's where I had the Roland rented!
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