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You could have a look at the Piano Syllabus website ( here) and search for stuff around grade 5 (which is where Fur Elise is at). If you like Mendelssohn there's 3 of his pieces listed at that grade.

I have just finished second section. Since i think it is tolerable to listen to i decided to share. And should i perhaps record the other two pieces too? Seems like it won't be a reference to you since you say they are so easy.

http://youtu.be/8Z5VhJE6VoI

Thing is the other pieces i have learned so far are too easy and i wasn't at the time i created the thread finished playing Für Elise we had no way of knowing if i can play at those grades. I'm ok from starting from 3, i think.

And i have large room to grow i think. Since i have just finished learning it. I can experiment on it to make it musical. Should i perhaps work 1 week more and then record since it can't be a reference whether i can play at this grade or not?

Although I can't see your hands, I'm inferring from your posts and the recording that you have some tension issues that are making your notes uneven. I think Fur Elise is perhaps too difficult a piece for you at this moment, and it may be a good idea to let it sit while you work on some easier pieces within your grasp.

Have you done any of the Anna Magdalena Bach notebook pieces? There are many wonderful pieces in there to enjoy that would help you technically as you focus on playing without added tension. The problem is usually going too fast too soon. Even the greatest pianists do very slow practicing.

Beethoven and his teacher, Haydn, both wrote some entertaining pieces that are about the same level as AMB notebook. I recommend that you go through one of the method books previously mentioned, and then supplementing with working on some of these easier pieces. That way while you are learning what you need, you can still be playing enjoyable stuff.

Actually i dont feel any tension from Fur Elise. Right now im kinda sloppy with it but i think that is tolerable since i have just learned it. But putting that aside im planning to through Alfred's or another method book while learning pieces from grade 3.

And Morodiene i dont know the pieces you reccomend. Perhaps i should do them first? I was planning little prelude from bach and some other from schuherz or schuberz another little nice fast piece.

Really im in no hurry just was trying to find my level of playing so according to that i would find the next pieces that i was going to learn. Minus the method book i really dont want to learn a grade 2 piece. Grade 3, im fine with. And ill start Alfred, i yu guys dont have another book for me...

It takes approximately 10,000 hours with efficient practice habits and effective instruction to acquire a masterful piano technique. The average beginner who has never received instruction or studied proper technique practices with a rate of efficiency of approximately 5-10% (likely far less) that of a well-taught pianist. This means that if said beginner will ever acquire a masterful technique, it will take some 10-20 times longer (between 100,000 to 200,000 hours) than someone with proper (efficient) habits. In other words, for a self-taught beginner, at least 90,000 hours will be wasted when compared with someone studying under the instruction of a competent teacher.

Assuming your time was worth the United States' federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour, that 90,000 hours is worth a gross $652,500. Assuming the average piano teacher's fee was $50/hour, you could purchase 10,000 hours of personalized instruction during which you could practice with a near-100% efficiency for $500,000. This means that if your time is worth the federal minimum wage of the United States (are you capable of standing behind a grill and flipping burgers), then by purchasing - and only practicing during - private lessons, you actually gain $152,500.

Obviously this is a stupid estimation of expense as most practicing is done at home alone and the most most students receive instruction is twice-weekly for one hour apiece, meaning your expenses will be far less and your income minus instruction fees far greater.


But then again, this only applies if your goal is to be able to take any music and be able to play it masterfully (i.e. acquire a virtuoso piano technique). If mediocre playing is the goal, then ignore the free money and keep playing however you want .

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id...eginner%20%20francis%20clark&f=false

Is this the book you refer to?
I decided to start learning through a method book. This if not Alfred's.
I care for two thing. Which one has more classical repertoire and at the end of the whick book i will be more advanced?

Whatever i started learning Alfred. I have one more question now. When i do all three or them which grade i will be in?

There are a few difficult ("ambitious") pieces at the end of Alfred 3, but according to my experience, at the end of the series you will barely be able to start grade 2 pieces. There is a bit of everything in these books, lots of great theory, chords, 16ths and 32nds, ornaments, a little bit of two-part writing, etc., and from the second half of book 2 things get challenging, but if you are into classical repertoire I suggest you supplement Alfred from the very beginning with First Lessons in Bach, Czerny and Burgmuller studies and similar materials.

To be frank i'm kind of underwhelmed by what you said, if it is the fact obviously, since i believe i can play Fur Elise which suppose to be higher tier of level 4. I admit i lack theory but to study all those pages just to learn theory and not to gain anything technically is disappointing. If someone else bothers to give an example of his i would very much like it. Although im not sure about 4 i certainly am confortable playing pieces at 3.

kaanguner, I can see that you are quite ambitious and there's nothing wrong with that. As for the Alfred books, I don't think they can bring you further than late beginner/very early intermediate. But even if you are a fast learner, I think you should still start with grade 1/2 pieces to build a good foundation. First Lessons in Bach includes many challenging pieces, especially in book 2. If you are more into Romantic music, then try Schumann's Album for the Young, it's available on imslp.org.

Off. I feel bad. The only challenge is sight reading. Figuring out which notes to play by reading sheets. Book 1 is almost over. I think I should just skip to lvl 3 pieces considering Alfred won't make it to that level. Help me please.

Sounds like Fuer Elise isn't really finished being learned yet -- meaning it sounds ok in the easier sections but sloppy when things get more difficult, and you only recorded the first half to two-thirds of the piece so presumably the rest is not learned yet. This isn't bad, it's never bad to be partway through learning something, but it is not "almost finished."

I say that once you ARE able to give a nice performance of Fuer Elise you'll have a sense of how long it took. Pieces at a similar level would take slightly less time assuming your ability is gradually increasing. If it felt like longer than you wanted to spend on one piece then go for a few easier pieces for awhile and try another hard one later. I think it's very valuable to play pieces at varying levels of difficulty. The easier ones teach us to learn repertoire quickly and the harder ones teach us to dig deep technically and artistically.

Easier pieces are also great for improving sight reading. By definition none of us can sight read at the same level as we can play when we have worked on a piece for a long time. So it's good to sight read at your sight reading level (easier), and learn repertoire at your repertoire learning level plus some easier and once in awhile some harder.

If you're mostly motivated by grade level then you could always just pick pieces at the hardest level where you can still make some progress on the piece every practice session. That will mean you'll take a long time learning the notes and an even longer time making them sound like anything, but some students find this the most exciting way to learn.

+1.

I listened to the Youtube recording. The slow sections are missing the legato touch they need. Things fall apart, rhythmically, in the fast section. As a test, for yourself:

. . . How fast can you play the fast section _and get every
. . . note and rhythm right_ ?

Right now, you can play the notes, sort of. You haven't learned to play the piece, IMHO.

You can't "fake" this stuff. You want to play music beyond your capabilities -- good! We all want that. But first, you must _master_ the easier material.

"Morodiene" and "Hreichgott" seem to be experienced, wise teachers. They've given you good advice.

. Charles

I'm almost done with Alfred Book 1 as well, but it's been 5 months. If you did it proper in one month, that is very impressive.

I've recently started learing the piano properly. Before I would just get the keyboard out about twice a year at most and learn something cool. Pieces that were far too hard for me, like clair delune. But I got get them sounding pretty good.

I've also started Alfred's book one. It is very hard on the ego, to go from playing something reasonbly complicated that could perhaps fool the non pianist into thinking I could play, to go to playing really horribly simple tunes, that I keep messing up. But the fact that I mess them up and can't do them that easliy makes me think it's the right thing to do. So i'm sticking with it. My music reading skills are improving this way. Although I did wiz through the first 90 or so pages.

I'm still learning complicated pieces on the side too. I'm also learning Fur Elise. I have no idea how to make the second section sound good. I've got the notes, but I'm not sure if I'm supposed to use the pedal there. Without it it seems too dry, and with it the melody notes are blured.

If I understand right, kaanguner wants to let Fur Elise keep on developing, while also starting some other pieces. That sounds to me like exactly the right thing to do. Of course, having a teacher is always best. But I wouldn't get bogged down in looking for the flaws in Fur Elise, as it's coming along very nicely.

I would second the suggestion of Bach's Anna Magdalena book. Or for more variety, there are great pieces in the "Joy of..." series. These are collections of accessible pieces (not simplified) by great composers. I particularly like the Joy of Classics and the Joy of Beethoven (which includes Fur Elise but also a range of his other pieces of similar or easier level).

Forgot to add, if you love the Mendelssohn and it feels comfortable, I'd say go ahead and play it. It's a lovely piece, a favorite of mine. But if you only chose it because of the level number and it's not calling to you, might as well play a few other things first.

I think for amateurs it's really important to play things you love--that's what keeps us going!

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp
Or what's a Heaven for? "
- - Robert Browning

. Charles

That is so true!! Just ignore the level number and enjoy the music you make!