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#2203816 - 12/28/13 01:20 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: RUSS SHETTLE]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1474
Loc: Australia
By convention, guitar strings are numbered:

1, e (thinnest string)
2, B
3, G
4, D
5, A
6, E
_________________________
Rob

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#2203847 - 12/28/13 04:45 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: Punchslap]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
If you play the I-IV-V7-I of Db major vs. Bb minor, is there is not a HUGE difference? Further (staying with the same example), Bb harmonic minor is very jarring/"dissonant" compared with Db major, as one example. Minor keys are just an alternate way of perceiving a key signature. But the difference is immense, is it not?

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#2203904 - 12/28/13 08:38 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: Punchslap]
zrtf90 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 3044
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Originally Posted By: RUSS SHETTLE
When practicing the melodic scale, you go up using the melodic and come down using the natural. Go figure that one. I've already beat my head against the wall to understand why that is. You're using two named scales for the one. Why didn't they just give it a separate name? Sometimes you just have to accept what is.
Melodies in Western music progress to tonic.

In the natural minor the resolution from 7 to 8 isn't strong enough so the seventh is sharpened to provide that resolution (as in the harmonic minor, where the seventh is sharpened to effect a stronger V-I resolution) but the tone and a half between 6 and 7 is awkward so the sixth is raised too.

6 or 7 don't interfere with the tonic resolution when the melody is descending so they can revert to the natural minor.
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#2203915 - 12/28/13 08:53 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: Polyphonist]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 13305
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

And yes, there is a certain nostalgia and longing that can only be portrayed with a major key.

Interesting though. In other words, the major key contains the "happiness" connotation, but you'll have something else that is sad - made tempo and rhythm. But I'm thinking you can also produce that in minor, by having the minor key giving the sadness connotation, but the rhythm and tempo a jaunty quickstep, that is strangely at odds.

Am I right that this is mostly in a major key? What if it were sung/played at a much faster tempo, and without the pauses?

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#2203956 - 12/28/13 10:03 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: Polyphonist]
LarryShone Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 1228
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: LarryShone
I've always been drawn to the minor key. Its the sound, the feeling it conveys to me.
I guess thats why I prefer sad blues to uptempo blues.

The major key can be sadder than the minor.

I often find the major key lifts a song out of the shadows. It is happier music.
When playing chords on a guitar I prefer Em to EM!
I just prefer the darker, melancholy tone. And yet whenever I improvise on a keyboard or come up with a new tune its invariably in CM! Probably because I'm lazy and find CM easier than Cm. Im not totally familiar with all the scales on the keyboard. In fact I only know CM by heart. Lack of practice time and lack of piano!
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My Piano Group

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#2203988 - 12/28/13 11:31 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: R0B]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 316
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Originally Posted By: R0B
By convention, guitar strings are numbered:

1, e (thinnest string)
2, B
3, G
4, D
5, A
6, E


Thanks Rob, I did not know that order. My personal logic led me the assume otherwise but then again, it's been a long time since I last fooled with guitar or having to replace a string.

Russ
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
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#2203997 - 12/28/13 11:48 AM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: keystring]
RUSS SHETTLE Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 316
Loc: Brandywine, Maryland
Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist

And yes, there is a certain nostalgia and longing that can only be portrayed with a major key.

Interesting though. In other words, the major key contains the "happiness" connotation, but you'll have something else that is sad - made tempo and rhythm. But I'm thinking you can also produce that in minor, by having the minor key giving the sadness connotation, but the rhythm and tempo a jaunty quickstep, that is strangely at odds.

Am I right that this is mostly in a major key? What if it were sung/played at a much faster tempo, and without the pauses?


I think I see you point.

In the end, as I think you once pointed to, it's more about structure than feeling, though feeling may often more than not give away that difference.

Am to C is just a mode and like any other mode, structure is going to mostly define that. Perhaps that is oversimplification but do you not basically agree?

I'm familiar with that song and it seems to be sad. Without taking the time to analyze and figure up the chords; I'm assuming a structure coinciding with a major key regardless of how sad it may sound.

I just figure quickly the beginning. The first chord and sound is Db Major, melody begins with that major scale. Then moves to IV or Gb so right off the bat we have an I IV movement. It is a major key, I have no doubt and it's a sad song.

Structure is the determining factor over major vs minor keys. There should be nothing unclear about that.
_________________________
Russ
Yamaha CP5
Casio PX130
Yamaha AP Upright

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#2204509 - 12/29/13 01:18 PM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: Polyphonist]
lautreamont Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 68
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: lautreamont
Minor keys were and often are considered the polar opposite of major keys.

I'm not so sure about that. If we're talking about polar opposites in keys, a better candidate would be the pairs of keys with tonics separated by a tritone - C and F#, Db and G, D and Ab, Eb and A, etc. There are several reasons for this: for example, these pairs of keys have the unique feature of sharing the fewest tones mathematically possible (2 tones out of 12, with a 7-note scale).


I was speaking in general, not that a specific minor key is the opposite of any specific major key. Conventional wisdom paints a dichotomy between the two keys ("major is happy", "minor is sad", etc.), and that has been a convenient, although not absolutely accurate, narrative.

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#2204546 - 12/29/13 02:44 PM Re: Question about minor keys [Re: lautreamont]
Polyphonist Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8847
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: lautreamont
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: lautreamont
Minor keys were and often are considered the polar opposite of major keys.

I'm not so sure about that. If we're talking about polar opposites in keys, a better candidate would be the pairs of keys with tonics separated by a tritone - C and F#, Db and G, D and Ab, Eb and A, etc. There are several reasons for this: for example, these pairs of keys have the unique feature of sharing the fewest tones mathematically possible (2 tones out of 12, with a 7-note scale).


I was speaking in general, not that a specific minor key is the opposite of any specific major key. Conventional wisdom paints a dichotomy between the two keys ("major is happy", "minor is sad", etc.), and that has been a convenient, although not absolutely accurate, narrative.

Quite inaccurate, in fact, and in my opinion unsuitable.
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Polyphonist

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