Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2201903 - 12/23/13 01:46 PM Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?!
blackspaven Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 98
Okay, so a search on here shows that allegedly there's not a single post on the Roland F20, but as prior to today I was leaning toward getting a Kawai ES100 in the next few weeks, I've now found out I can get an F20 for £100 more (probably about $160ish).

I'm after the most realistic acoustic piano action possible for around £600, and these are the two contenders, realistically. If I buy before the 31st, Roland are extending the warranty to 5 years, but the F20 has only usb as opposed to Kawai's full midi, so pro's & cons. Also can't play them side by side anywhere to compare, annoyingly.

Does anyone have any opinions on either of these two DPs, and if the Roland Ivory Feel-G keyboard is head and shoulders better than Kawai's AHAIV-F keyboard?

Over to you guys. smile

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / PR /Roland
Your Next Keyboard is at Sweetwater

Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano

Click Here


#2201997 - 12/23/13 06:36 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8869
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: blackspaven
the F20 has only usb as opposed to Kawai's full midi, so pro's & cons.


F-20:
+ Can connect to a computer using a simple USB A-B cable.
- Cannot connect to any other MIDI devices.

ES100
+ Can connect to any other device using simple MIDI cables.
- Cannot connect to a computer without a USB-MIDI adaptor*.

* A USB-MIDI adaptor can be purchased from Amazon UK for around £2.

Originally Posted By: blackspaven
Also can't play them side by side anywhere to compare, annoyingly.


Can you at least play them at different stores?
Side-by-side would obviously be more convenient, but playing them both for yourself is surely better than nothing.

Best of luck!

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2202279 - 12/24/13 10:02 AM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 616
I was hoping to try out both as well as I am thinking of moving my PX130 and covering a portion of the newer piano.

I have not been able to try the ES100 out (going to check with a local dealer)

However, I did play the F20 over the weekend and here are my thoughts:

I liked how it looked, very simple.
In my opinion, the key action was satisfying for something in this price range. It was not overly heavy, but felt more natural than GHS and NH.
I tried perhaps 2 of the piano sounds,a little darker maybe even a little more natural than my prize posession SP280.
The speakers were not the loudest, but certainly an improvement on the PX130 and my former P95.
Probably not up there with the SP280 but well EQ'd.
However, the USB vs Midi is actually starting to annoy me:
I can use my Juno Gi as an audio interface and rather midi thru a piano there than take up another usb slot on my laptop.
My final verdict on the Roland F20- I think at $900 it is overpriced and the P155 offers a better value. It was $500 it would be a no brainer, $600 maybe.
It does not seem to have something with a "wow" factor to separate it from the pack of $500-$600 contenders.
Now, don't get me wrong, I did enjoy playing it but would not purchase for $900 or even $765 (15% discount).
I did play the Kawaii -ES6? A few years ago with the 6 circular speakers and enjoyed it a lot, jsut have not seen it at local retailers lately.
My preference would have been for the Kawaii.
It seems here the ES100 would be $100 less to begin with at $800 so 15% off (GC or MF) would make it $680.
If the 2 boards shared the same action, I would likely prefer the Kawaii and the Kawaii is listed as having some more piano variations (Roland has some editing listed in their manual)
I really think in this instance you have to forgo the warranty from Roland and wait until you can try out the ES100 which in my opinion seems to offer a little more at a lwoer price
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

Top
#2202456 - 12/24/13 04:35 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
blackspaven Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 98
Yup, going on friday to try a host of DPs at a local shop, all of which are on display. Score! smile

I'm gonna try out a Kawai ES100 & F20 from the sub £600 range and a Kawai KDP90 & Roland F120 from the sub £800 price range and see what happens. (before anyone comments on the prices being incorrectly low, my mate is also buying one for him to learn so we had room to haggle ;))

Same Ivory Feel-G action but the differences that are making me think about upping my budget slightly are both are in cabinets with three pedals so would avoid me shelling out another £100 on a new double stand (which obviously reels the price in a bit closer), the F120 has full midi, reverb and a 5 level touch sensitivity as opposed to the F20's 3, as well as triple key sensor where I may be wrong but I believe the F20 only has double sensor. I've heard the key's might be a bit clunky noisy when playing hard though, as if there's not enough felt underneath on the bed, so I'll have to check it out. (had a little play a while ago when first looking and something about the F120 felt a lot better/more natural, but that's totally from memory)

The Kawai is similar in that the action on both is the same AHAIV-F, but it's just reviews I've read seem quite good of the KDP90 so a/b-ing the two might be beneficial to make a decision. Quite a few people just on here don't seem to like the Kawai action particularly, so it'll be interesting to have a go in person.

Was also looking at Yamaha (probably the YDP-S51), but the general feel I'm getting is that both above actions are ever so slightly more relistic to an acoustic than the Yamaha GH action, and way better than the GHS action on the P105 (which I tried and found to be horribly cheap in comparison), and quite a few of the shops around here don't bother stocking it as they don't rate it as highly (might just be sales based though) yet it seems okay. Korg SP380 was a brief consideration but read a few things about possibly weak cabinet build quality which would be annoying.

Also, the Roland free extended 5 year warranty until january might sway it too! laugh


Edited by blackspaven (12/24/13 04:43 PM)

Top
#2216346 - 01/17/14 06:11 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
pianoflo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Paris, France
Hi, thanks for your posts guys!
I have the same dilema: after searching the web and going to a few music stores, I try to decide whether I should go for the Roland F20 or the Kawai ES 100. I was able to try the new Roland´s, but the Kawai is not available anywhere near me so I can test it. Did you finally choose between those two? If you were able to test them both as planned, could you give us your feedback about the difference in key action and sound?
Anyway, I hope you and your mate are satisfied with your choice(s) !

Thanks in advance!

Top
#2216363 - 01/17/14 07:08 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
Squall21 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 25
The store I was in didn't have the two models in this thread so I opted for the most similar models which were the kawai CL26 and the Roland f-120.

After trying them side by side, my verdict went to the Kawai and now it's only a matter of making the purchase. Unfortunately I had to cut my visit short because the salesperson wouldn't stop staring at me.

Top
#2216459 - 01/17/14 11:13 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
Daniel Richter Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 151
Loc: Venezuela
Be careful with the Kawai ES100. It have latency issues that are not confirm they fix, nor know if you get a fix unit. Read this: http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2213541/1.html
_________________________
Long time piano player, with 7 years experience working in restaurants and doing gigs in random places.

My project: Comparison of Portable Digital Pianos under 1000 US$

Owner of Kawai ES100

Top
#2216532 - 01/18/14 05:29 AM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
pianoflo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Paris, France
@Squall21: thanks for the feedback ! But given the small size of my room, a stage piano will be more adapted ! I keep in my your preference for the Kawai though.

@Daniel: thank you very much for pointing this out ! I read your very detailed post about it, and I might consider waiting a bit more before making the final decision then...

Top
#2216534 - 01/18/14 06:11 AM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: Squall21]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3454
Loc: Northern England.
"Unfortunately I had to cut my visit short because the salesperson wouldn't stop staring at me."

Good lookers have such problems . . . . ! (I`m not speaking from experience grin)


Edited by peterws (01/18/14 06:11 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes — but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

Top
#2216536 - 01/18/14 06:26 AM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: pianoflo]
blackspaven Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 98
Originally Posted By: pianoflo
Hi, thanks for your posts guys! Did you finally choose between those two? If you were able to test them both as planned, could you give us your feedback about the difference in key action and sound?


Yup, managed to try a rake of DP's and ended plumping for the CN24 instead! lol It has the RHII keyboard action on it as well as triple sensors and just felt... better. The ES100 was the better of the two I was initially going to go for, and being cheaper as well as finding a few places that would give a 5-year warranty was a no brainer as far as which I should suggest my friend bought, which he did. The sounds are completely personal and both very good but as noted elsewhere the keypad is pretty noisy if you play a little harder on both the Roland models so that must be down to them using the same keyboard action. Shame really, cos it's probably an easy thing that they could have avoided. Yamaha wasn't even in the running when I tried it out, just felt all sorts of wrong to me, but each to their own.

Top
#2216695 - 01/18/14 01:12 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: peterws]
Squall21 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: peterws
"Unfortunately I had to cut my visit short because the salesperson wouldn't stop staring at me."

Good lookers have such problems . . . . ! (I`m not speaking from experience grin)


lol. Not my experience either. I meant she was the type of salesperson who follows you around when you go shopping. That's what she was doing. :p

Top
#2216833 - 01/18/14 06:46 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: Squall21]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8869
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Squall21
I meant she was the type of salesperson who follows you around when you go shopping. That's what she was doing. :p


Perhaps she was enraptured by your wonderful playing? wink

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

Top
#2217204 - 01/19/14 03:34 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
pianoflo Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 3
Loc: Paris, France
@blackspaven: thank you for your impressions ! It confirms my present choice, ES100 but in a few weeks only !

Thanks again to you all !

Top
#2217228 - 01/19/14 04:16 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: blackspaven]
Squall21 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 25
@Kawai_James haha if only I was that good. frown

@pianoflo glad you've found a dp you like! laugh

Top
#2217306 - 01/19/14 06:11 PM Re: Roland F20 v Kawai ES100... anyone own or tried either?! [Re: Squall21]
blackspaven Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/27/13
Posts: 98
No worries. Weirdly enough, I think I've been spoilt by my much more expensive Roland VR700, as side by side I think the default piano sound is slightly better in the VR, sort of less digital, but for quite a bit under a grand the Kawai was easily the best sounding to me through my headphones, which obviously took speakers out of the equation and left just the pure piano sounds.

My piano teacher said I needed a PROPER keyboard though, and I can see her point as the Kawai feels more 'piano' like and less gig like which is where the VR comes into it's own, if that makes sense.

But, heck, if I was THAT bothered, they're already linked up by midi cables so I could play the Kawai and get the VR700 grand piano sounds! lol

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
Our latest Issue is available now...
Piano News - Interesting & Fun Piano Related Newsletter! (free)
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
77 registered (a-z0-9, AndrewJCW, Atrys, AZNpiano, 24 invisible), 1183 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75581 Members
42 Forums
156277 Topics
2295061 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help with dynamics
by noobpianist90
4 minutes 43 seconds ago
Using Kawai MP6 faders/knobs with virtual instruments?
by chicolom
Today at 02:35 AM
Coming up with new compositional methods.
by gsmonks
Today at 01:58 AM
Impromptu in A
by Ritzycat
Today at 12:42 AM
what do you think piano teachers about it?
by Maximillyan
Today at 12:15 AM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission