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#2201904 - 12/23/13 01:48 PM BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary"
-Frycek Offline
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#2201936 - 12/23/13 03:26 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
BruceD Offline
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That is a very interesting article; thank you for posting it, -Frycek

Regards,
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#2201940 - 12/23/13 03:35 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
wouter79 Offline
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Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3635
Thanks!

Interesting, didn't know Hungary was on an anti-Semitic route... This seems a recurring pattern every time economy goes down frown

>He cites Beethoven's preposterously demanding Hammerklavier sonata - a piece, Schiff says, he learned when he was 30.

>"I have lived with it for 30 years, and I am beginning to know what it is about. I am still far away," he says.

Anyone has a clue what he is talking about? I'm not very well into the big Beethoven stuff, but is this sonata particularly hard to interpret?
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#2201971 - 12/23/13 04:42 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
gooddog Offline
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Loc: Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Interesting, didn't know Hungary was on an anti-Semitic route... This seems a recurring pattern every time economy goes down frown >
From my family's point of view, Hungary has always been a virulently anti-semitic country, trending from very bad to worse. This is why my Grandmother fled in 1906. When we would ask her if she would consider returning for a visit, she would spit out in her strong Hungarian accent: "Feh, I would never set foot into that country again...those b....". She would then relate chilling stories of the pogroms. Unfortunately, antisemitism has never disappeared in most parts of Europe, including Western Europe. It festers until the next crisis and a need for a handy scapegoat.

Good for Schiff and thanks for posting this -Frycek.
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#2202057 - 12/23/13 10:24 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Thanks!

Interesting, didn't know Hungary was on an anti-Semitic route... This seems a recurring pattern every time economy goes down frown

>He cites Beethoven's preposterously demanding Hammerklavier sonata - a piece, Schiff says, he learned when he was 30.

>"I have lived with it for 30 years, and I am beginning to know what it is about. I am still far away," he says.

Anyone has a clue what he is talking about? I'm not very well into the big Beethoven stuff, but is this sonata particularly hard to interpret?


Apparently so. grin
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#2202062 - 12/23/13 10:45 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: gooddog]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
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Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: gooddog
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Interesting, didn't know Hungary was on an anti-Semitic route... This seems a recurring pattern every time economy goes down frown >
From my family's point of view, Hungary has always been a virulently anti-semitic country, trending from very bad to worse. This is why my Grandmother fled in 1906. When we would ask her if she would consider returning for a visit, she would spit out in her strong Hungarian accent: "Feh, I would never set foot into that country again...those b....". She would then relate chilling stories of the pogroms. Unfortunately, antisemitism has never disappeared in most parts of Europe, including Western Europe. It festers until the next crisis and a need for a handy scapegoat.

Good for Schiff and thanks for posting this -Frycek.


After reading your post, I googled "anti-semitism in Hungary" and was amazed to see the number of articles that have been posted on the internet on this subject during the past year. A sad state of affairs indeed. thumb
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#2202067 - 12/23/13 11:11 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
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Originally Posted By: wouter79
Thanks!

Interesting, didn't know Hungary was on an anti-Semitic route... This seems a recurring pattern every time economy goes down :
So very very true...

Right now in Greece there's an upraise of extremist right wing parties... frown The party that simply "hates" anything different!

Sorry to be repeating such a topic and sorry for bringing you down guys, but I wanted to make sure that the above statement is well understood and taken in for what it is!
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#2202107 - 12/24/13 12:58 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
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Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Identifying people haters is better than knowing what their IQ is-by default you know they are stupid in emotional intelligence and empathy. Now if they have the impulse to get even and the ambition to gain power-they are a threat to civilization and our lives may be in danger.

Good for Mr Schiff for taking a stand! May he be protected from danger.
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#2202203 - 12/24/13 06:25 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
wouter79 Offline
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Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3635
I don't think this is simply a case of low emotional intelligence.

I tried to google some forums where anti-semits are discussing what they want but had a hard time. All I get is anti-anti-semitic stuff... Is google restricting search on that ?
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#2202289 - 12/24/13 10:17 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wouter79
I don't think this is simply a case of low emotional intelligence.
I tried to google some forums where anti-semites are discussing what they want but had a hard time. All I get is anti-anti-semitic stuff... Is google restricting search on that ?


Wouter - There are plenty of articles on the internet about BIGOTRY in general (i.e., the fear, distrust, hatred, contempt or intolerance of other persons' opinions, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status or other characteristics).

Perhaps you should simply start there.




Edited by carey (12/24/13 10:18 AM)
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#2202384 - 12/24/13 01:33 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
wouter79 Offline
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Are you saying that in general bigotry leads to/sympathizes with anti-semitic behaviour?
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#2202430 - 12/24/13 03:36 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
carey Offline
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Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Are you saying that in general bigotry leads to/sympathizes with anti-semitic behaviour?


Isn't it obvious that "anti-semitic behavior" IS a form of bigotry ??

And just to be clear, a "bigot" is someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance.
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#2202580 - 12/24/13 10:49 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
Dwscamel Offline
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Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
I respect Schiff for acting on his beliefs.
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#2202701 - 12/25/13 09:12 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: carey]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3635
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Are you saying that in general bigotry leads to/sympathizes with anti-semitic behaviour?


Isn't it obvious that "anti-semitic behavior" IS a form of bigotry ??



That's not answering the question
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#2202709 - 12/25/13 09:49 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wouter79]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6470
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Are you saying that in general bigotry leads to/sympathizes with anti-semitic behaviour?


Isn't it obvious that "anti-semitic behavior" IS a form of bigotry ??



That's not answering the question



You seem to be interested in understanding WHY some folks feel and act the way they do toward certain groups. That's all very fine and good, but ultimately it doesn't justify the negative attitudes and behavior. Bigotry is bigotry - and there is nothing good about it.

Happy Holidays.


Edited by carey (12/25/13 10:25 AM)
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#2202720 - 12/25/13 10:38 AM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3635
Yes I think understanding is much more useful and offers more possibilities for handling than just stamping something as negative.

Also happy holidays smile
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#2202819 - 12/25/13 03:15 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2423
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Bigots ability to see themselves in others eyes is limited by their tribal instincts. They want to identify problems as being innate to a persons religion, tribal, ethnic, etc sources. They resist learning how these sources can teach one to limit empathetic response and to evolve civilization accordingly.

Civilization should be a process for growing connections between people. That is why being in a state of war is the cessation of civilization. Although we try to conduct wars with rules too-so war certainly should send the message that cooperation is preferable.

In some sense, when you look around you with enough knowledge, one would likely come to the conclusion that the universe is alive. We are not alone, because life wants to be here. It is inherent to the structure of space and time.
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#2203374 - 12/26/13 11:12 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
wdot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 728
Loc: South Carolina, USA
Somebody in this thread equated antisemitism with "right wing" belief systems. We need to be careful about such generalizations. For instance, there is a virulent strain of anti-Zionism that pervades "progressive" groups in the U.S. This is generally presented as a pro-Palestinian POV, but it is often presented as and either/or proposition. I.e., the Jews need to leave so that the Palestinians can "return" to their homeland. The interesting point is that among the staunchest supporters of Israel are the Evangelical Christians, whom many would paint as right wingers.

I suppose my point is that slinging labels around indiscriminately is not a good way to foster educated debate.

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#2203385 - 12/26/13 11:38 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
Anne'sson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/25/12
Posts: 158
Loc: El Paso, TX
wdot , I believe the poster was writing about extreme right-wing movements in Europe, which could merit the label Facist.

You are correct that contemporary conservative parties in the United States tend to be staunch supporters of Israel and of Jews in general. That was certainly not the case earlier in American history; we had our share of Facist political movements in the 1930s (the Ku Klux Klan, Father Coughlin, and the Bund)--always virulently anti-Semitic.
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#2203585 - 12/27/13 01:53 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: wdot]
Plowboy Offline
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 2398
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: wdot
Somebody in this thread equated antisemitism with "right wing" belief systems. We need to be careful about such generalizations. For instance, there is a virulent strain of anti-Zionism that pervades "progressive" groups in the U.S.


Anti-Zionism equals anti-semitism? Really.
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#2203622 - 12/27/13 03:03 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2036
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Hmmm. This article makes me wonder if we are wise to visit Budapest. We are planning Vienna / Budapest trip now.

My husband grandfather is from Hungary. Lots of older generation in his extended family members are racists. I thought it was limited to only his family. I stopped visiting them because I don't enjoy their company. I'm an Asian. For example they have a little dog. I think it's a cocker spaniel mix. The dog barks at me ferociously. Only to me in the family. His father proudly told me that the dog could "sniff out" non whites. Indeed the dog barked at a black neighbor and Mexican mailman beside me. I realized that the dog is a reflection of the family mentality. I cannot tell you all the unpleasant things I experienced before we got married. If my husband is not wonderful, I would have never carried out our wedding. His brother and friends (younger generation) are all super nice.
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#2203649 - 12/27/13 04:17 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
spanishbuddha Offline
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Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2471
Loc: UK
It's a problem in football (soccer), see as just one example FIFA sanctions, and sadly this applies to many other mostly east European countries, such as Greece, Croatia, Turkey, Ukraine ... the list goes on (you can confirm with Google search on recent FIFA bans).

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#2203709 - 12/27/13 07:07 PM Re: BBC Andreas Schiff "Why I Won't Perform in Hungary" [Re: -Frycek]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
I hardly consider the rise of neo-Nazi and skinhead movements to be limited to Hungary.
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