Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2201909 - 12/23/13 01:56 PM The Overlooked
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
Name a piano that you think is a wonderful value or is a great performer, but is often overlooked by the piano playing public.

And why is it overlooked?
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

Top
(ads 568) Hailun Pianos

#2201920 - 12/23/13 02:38 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9132
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Jolly,

I don't have a specific model in mind but I have a comment.

In general, the first time buyer overlooks many great opportunities because their teacher, brother, sister, (insert name here) who knows about pianos told them to only buy a "xxxxx" (again, insert name here). The person mentioned is usually a "concert pianist" as well.

Consumers who are uneducated make bad decisions. I also think this goes for more than just pianos.
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#2201928 - 12/23/13 03:04 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Rich Galassini]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 167
Loc: Usa
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Jolly,

I don't have a specific model in mind but I have a comment.

In general, the first time buyer overlooks many great opportunities because their teacher, brother, sister, (insert name here) who knows about pianos told them to only buy a "xxxxx" (again, insert name here). The person mentioned is usually a "concert pianist" as well.

Consumers who are uneducated make bad decisions. I also think this goes for more than just pianos.



Yes, this is so true.

Top
#2202030 - 12/23/13 08:11 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
JohnSprung Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/02/11
Posts: 1243
Loc: Reseda, California
Older concert grands. They last a long time, the sound is magnificent, and you can often find them for very little money. They're overlooked because people aren't willing to devote nine feet of floor space to a piano.
_________________________
-- J.S.

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690

Top
#2202051 - 12/23/13 09:52 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1622
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Great piano, but seldom mentioned: Sohmer & Co. (pre-1983).


Edited by bkw58 (12/23/13 09:59 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicę

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

Top
#2202166 - 12/24/13 03:40 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 899
Loc: California, USA
On the new market: Shigeru Kawai. Many people haven't heard of it, or think it's simply an option on their normal consumer line. I think it's was of the best values at the high end of the market. Moving downmarket... I think Hailuns are still overlooked as you can't hardly find them anywhere.

On the used market there are so many all I can do is list what comes to the top of my head: Kurtzman, Sohmer (the old ones), Knabe (the American ones), Vose and Sons (pre 1930), Chickering (the name was eventually driven into the mud), Steinert, Bluthner (outside of Pianoworld most in USA haven't heard of it).
_________________________
Pianist and Piano Teacher

Top
#2202393 - 12/24/13 01:52 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5174
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: Jolly
Name a piano that you think is a wonderful value or is a great performer, but is often overlooked by the piano playing public.

And why is it overlooked?

The two Walter grands are among the most overlooked grands on the market even though they are among the world's best in their size ranges.

We hear a lot about the Walter uprights but the grands are not promoted at all.


ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2202469 - 12/24/13 05:04 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Roy123 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Massachusetts
I played a CW190 once and thought it was quite wonderful. At that time, my piano teacher had an L that he adored and kept well serviced. The L was, in fact, very nice indeed, but the CW190 blew it away, especially in the lower half of the piano's compass.

Top
#2202547 - 12/24/13 08:43 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
pogmoger Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/13
Posts: 165
Loc: Norway
I'm visiting my parents for Christmas and I've been playing on the Ronisch upright they bought for me new about 12 years ago. It's always a pleasure to come back to that piano and at the time it was purchased, it was priced only slightly more than a similar sized Kawai (which was my second choice.) I picked it myself based on what I thought sounded and played best in the price range.

I can relate to what Rich is saying. My parents asked my piano teacher for advice, and he told us to get a big used Yamaha like the one he played at church. Nothing wrong with that, except that he didn't really know what else was available on the market at the time, and I didn't like any Yamahas I tried smile. So we went to a few different piano stores, I tried everything and anything and bought the instrument that was most fun to play (even though almost no-one has ever heard of the brand). And no regrets.

These days, Ronisch is owned by Bluthner and the pianos have been redesigned and got a bit more expensive. I haven't played any of these newer models, but would love to try some out one day.

Top
#2202561 - 12/24/13 09:14 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: pogmoger]
PhilipInChina Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 693
Loc: China
Originally Posted By: pogmoger
I'm visiting my parents for Christmas and I've been playing on the Ronisch upright they bought for me new about 12 years ago. It's always a pleasure to come back to that piano and at the time it was purchased, it was priced only slightly more than a similar sized Kawai (which was my second choice.) I picked it myself based on what I thought sounded and played best in the price range.

I can relate to what Rich is saying. My parents asked my piano teacher for advice, and he told us to get a big used Yamaha like the one he played at church. Nothing wrong with that, except that he didn't really know what else was available on the market at the time, and I didn't like any Yamahas I tried smile. So we went to a few different piano stores, I tried everything and anything and bought the instrument that was most fun to play (even though almost no-one has ever heard of the brand). And no regrets.

These days, Ronisch is owned by Bluthner and the pianos have been redesigned and got a bit more expensive. I haven't played any of these newer models, but would love to try some out one day.


Like another aspect of life- practice on as many as you can before you decide which one to get and keep.
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

Top
#2202608 - 12/25/13 12:08 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Jeff Clef Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 4414
Loc: San Jose, CA
"...We hear a lot about the Walter uprights but the grands are not promoted at all..."

I do urge people to go to the trouble to find a dealer who carries them, and to consider them when they are looking for a grand for the home. But if you mean, "Does the company promote them," then I'd have to say no, or at least, that I've never heard of it. And if these shoppers do get to the showroom, the typical giant sales floor is not optimal for hearing these instruments.

However, Carnes in San Jose has moved their Walter grands to a newly-made section of their sales floor. It's the size of a fairly big living room; two walls are solid glass plate. It may not be the ideal showcase--- a little on the live side--- but I give them credit for taking a step in the right direction. And it would warm your heart to see the effort Darlene makes to get customers to give them a fair try, even though they may never have heard the name before... and that's a steep hill to scale.

If I had known more when I was piano shopping, about its special features and design philosophy, it could be sitting in my living room today. Though, to be honest, Kawai's MIII action is very hard to beat, and when you're trying your way through 15 or 20 pianos, it stands out. Maybe it's preaching to the choir, but C. Walter doesn't even have an ad on PW, to help make their website easy to find; these days, that kind of thing can help a lot.

Bottom line... well, most shoppers are looking for uprights anyway, and that's why they get directed to the CW 1500. And they end up buying a used Yamaha. Bottom line... you're closer to right than not.
_________________________
Clef


Top
#2202634 - 12/25/13 01:41 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Gary Fowler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/13
Posts: 375
My 1925 7' August Forster grand is the find of my LIFE! I installed a new pinblock. Overall, this piano is better than any Steinway of equal size. This thing gives me so much playing pleasure that I doubt I could let it go at any price
_________________________
Making the world a better sounding place, one piano at a time...

Top
#2202648 - 12/25/13 02:17 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jeff Clef]
michaelha Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 778
Originally Posted By: Jeff Clef
"...We hear a lot about the Walter uprights but the grands are not promoted at all..."

I do urge people to go to the trouble to find a dealer who carries them, and to consider them when they are looking for a grand for the home. But if you mean, "Does the company promote them," then I'd have to say no, or at least, that I've never heard of it. And if these shoppers do get to the showroom, the typical giant sales floor is not optimal for hearing these instruments.

However, Carnes in San Jose has moved their Walter grands to a newly-made section of their sales floor. It's the size of a fairly big living room; two walls are solid glass plate. It may not be the ideal showcase--- a little on the live side--- but I give them credit for taking a step in the right direction. And it would warm your heart to see the effort Darlene makes to get customers to give them a fair try, even though they may never have heard the name before... and that's a steep hill to scale.

If I had known more when I was piano shopping, about its special features and design philosophy, it could be sitting in my living room today. Though, to be honest, Kawai's MIII action is very hard to beat, and when you're trying your way through 15 or 20 pianos, it stands out. Maybe it's preaching to the choir, but C. Walter doesn't even have an ad on PW, to help make their website easy to find; these days, that kind of thing can help a lot.

Bottom line... well, most shoppers are looking for uprights anyway, and that's why they get directed to the CW 1500. And they end up buying a used Yamaha. Bottom line... you're closer to right than not.


I played a Charles Walter at Carnes but only for a couple of minutes. I'm not sure if the one they had needed some regulation work or what not, but the action was incredibly stiff. The stiffest I've ever encountered. I just got done playing their Kawai RX's, which isn't exactly the lightest action either.

I knew the piano market in the 80's and 90's, took a long layoff and got re-acquainted with it a year or two ago, read PianoBuyer, and definitely did read about Charles Walter. But when I read words like "Made in America" and "handmade" I sort of took it off of my list thinking it would be in a different pricing tier than something like a Kawai or Yamaha. I'm not sure if that's true or not. Hard to tell since the piano industry likes to mess around with MSRP. Anyways...

Another thing, when I went to Sherman Clay's in SF, they sell these pianos with the "Henry F. Miller" label, made by Pearl River I believe. I kept getting thinking that was the CW I read about. Perhaps if CW did more advertising I would remember their name better. I just remembered it as "some American guy's name."
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

Top
#2202696 - 12/25/13 08:52 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
A good CW can run with anybody's piano of the same size.

Anybody.

Hard action? Never run into one. Everyone we've ever sat down to had an action like butter. The piano wanted to be played.

And at the prices I've seen on some, they can be a screaming deal for the piano you're getting.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

Top
#2202741 - 12/25/13 11:24 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9132
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Jolly
A good CW can run with anybody's piano of the same size.

Anybody.

Hard action? Never run into one. Everyone we've ever sat down to had an action like butter. The piano wanted to be played.

And at the prices I've seen on some, they can be a screaming deal for the piano you're getting.


+1 smile
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Get Cunningham Piano Email Updates

Top
#2202753 - 12/25/13 11:57 AM Re: The Overlooked [Re: michaelha]
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5174
Loc: Olympia, Washington
Originally Posted By: michaelh
I played a Charles Walter at Carnes but only for a couple of minutes. I'm not sure if the one they had needed some regulation work or what not, but the action was incredibly stiff. The stiffest I've ever encountered. I just got done playing their Kawai RX's, which isn't exactly the lightest action either.

Did you ask about the action? The people at the factory lavish time and attention on the action setup. More than many companies offering considerably more expensive pianos. I've never known one to have and action that "was incredibly stiff."

I'm not suggesting that it couldn't happen, of course, but if it did you should have purchased it on the spot for its rarity. The value of such a one-of-a-kind instrument must surely go up quickly.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

Top
#2202777 - 12/25/13 01:06 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
RX2Bunny Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/22/12
Posts: 116
Loc: Chicago
I have heard a lot of good things about CW but didn't try when I shopped for my grand because it seemed to be significantly out of my price range. If I remember right, a 5'9" would be in the 30-40 range. Much more than a Kawai in the similar size.

Top
#2202781 - 12/25/13 01:09 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: bkw58]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: bkw58
Great piano, but seldom mentioned: Sohmer & Co. (pre-1983).


I've played Sohmer uprights and while they were good, they were less than a typical Yamaha upright.

If Sohmer made grands, I'm not aware.
_________________________
website

mp3\wav files

AvantGrand N3, CP5

Top
#2202808 - 12/25/13 02:28 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Jolly]
Rich D. Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 1239
Loc: Rehoboth Beach De. USA
I played a few refurbished large Charles Stieff uprights which were exceptional. I've also played a couple of Stieff baby grands which were equally as good.

Rich
_________________________
Retired at the beach (well maybe not completely)

"Life is like a piano....what you get out of it depends on how you play it"
Anonymous


Top
#2202919 - 12/25/13 09:30 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Rich D.]
PhilipInChina Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 693
Loc: China
Why hasn't "somebody" mentioned Petrof on here yet?
_________________________
Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

Top
#2202924 - 12/25/13 09:46 PM Re: The Overlooked [Re: Dave Horne]
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 1622
Loc: Conway, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
Originally Posted By: bkw58
Great piano, but seldom mentioned: Sohmer & Co. (pre-1983).


I've played Sohmer uprights and while they were good, they were less than a typical Yamaha upright.

If Sohmer made grands, I'm not aware.


I would generally give Yamaha higher marks than the Samick Sohmer.

Yes, the Sohmer family did make grands.
_________________________
Bob W.
Retired piano technician
Piano Technicę

"Not to know what took place before you were born is to remain forever a child." - Cicero

Top

Moderator:  Ken Knapp, Piano World, Rickster 
What's Hot!!
75,000 Members and Growing!
-------------------
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
146 registered (36251, AndrewJCW, AmateurBob, 43 invisible), 1770 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
75509 Members
42 Forums
156142 Topics
2292925 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Pianist Noah Landis - Lowell, MA Sept. 6th
by Piano World
07/24/14 06:09 PM
Guidance for Publishing
by Dachshund
07/24/14 06:02 PM
Keith Emerson Playing NY in October!
by Piano World
07/24/14 05:52 PM
Action parts any different from 80s,90s, 2k Charles Walter?
by Gatsbee13
07/24/14 04:36 PM
Question about finger reach!
by Plopsy
07/24/14 04:23 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission