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#2205415 - 12/31/13 12:22 AM What's a piece you just can't stand?
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
For me it's always been Chopin's Op.10 no.5 Etude "Black Key".
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#2205417 - 12/31/13 12:24 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
What's so bad about the 10/5?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205421 - 12/31/13 12:29 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
Ha! I used to hate that Chopin etude, but then I heard Horowitz's version (specifically, the part from the documentary "The Last Romantic") and I enjoy it now :):

http://youtu.be/jaMA8LWW3C0

This particular interpretation makes me very happy! I love Horowitz.

I can't stand any of Gaspard though . . . I don't understand what people see in it! Other "big" pieces I dislike, no matter how many interpretations I hear: Brahms 2; Liszt sonata; Scriabin's "Black Mass" and "White Mass" sonatas; The Rite of Spring (I literally left a concert hall when this came on, and I had never done that before in my life and don't plan on doing so again); Rachmaninoff's "The Rock" (which is a big deal for me given my obsession with all things Rachmaninoff); and the Wanderer Fantasy.

I know no one likes negative stuff like this and it's usually met with a dismissive "who cares?", but since you asked . . . :P.

Maybe I just haven't heard the 'right' recordings.
_________________________
Casio PX-150

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#2205424 - 12/31/13 12:32 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Dwscamel]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
Maybe I just haven't heard the 'right' recordings.

Maybe you haven't heard any recordings. Brahms 2, Liszt Sonata, Gaspard...give me a break.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205425 - 12/31/13 12:32 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19873
Loc: New York
Bach-Busoni Chaconne.

Don't get me wrong: I love it when it's played really well.
That is, on those (IMO) very rare occasions when it's played really well. grin

Most people (again, IMO) shoot their wad by about the 3rd page, and there's nowhere to go from there. I find those performances unbearable -- and that's most of what I hear.

Spare me. smile

Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
....Other "big" pieces I dislike, no matter how many interpretations I hear: ....Scriabin's "Black Mass" and "White Mass" sonatas....

Even this? grin

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#2205426 - 12/31/13 12:34 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Isn't that true of every single piece of music, Mark?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205429 - 12/31/13 12:37 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
What's so bad about the 10/5?


Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece really makes me feel uncomfortable when I hear it.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#2205430 - 12/31/13 12:38 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece...

What else is there to a piece? grin

If you can't stand the original, try some of the Godowsky studies on it. They'll drive you up the wall. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205431 - 12/31/13 12:39 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Mark_C]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Bach-Busoni Chaconne.

Don't get me wrong: I love it when it's played really well.
That is, on those (IMO) very rare occasions when it's played really well. grin

Most people (again, IMO) shoot their wad by about the 3rd page, and there's nowhere to go from there. I find those performances unbearable -- and that's most of what I hear.

Spare me. smile

Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
....Other "big" pieces I dislike, no matter how many interpretations I hear: ....Scriabin's "Black Mass" and "White Mass" sonatas....

Even this? grin


Haha, I can listen to that one a little more easily.

I think a big part of it is simply not "getting" Scriabin's later music. The structure is rarely obvious to me.
_________________________
Casio PX-150

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#2205436 - 12/31/13 12:48 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece...

What else is there to a piece? grin

If you can't stand the original, try some of the Godowsky studies on it. They'll drive you up the wall. laugh


To be more specific the opening motive, which gets varied, and also the sound the tremolo-like sound created makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I'm familiar with the Godowsky studies, doesn't help.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

Top
#2205437 - 12/31/13 12:50 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece...

What else is there to a piece? grin

If you can't stand the original, try some of the Godowsky studies on it. They'll drive you up the wall. laugh


To be more specific the opening motive, which gets varied, and also the sound the tremolo-like sound created makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I'm familiar with the Godowsky studies, doesn't help.

Doesn't hurt either? grin

You don't like any tremolos?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205440 - 12/31/13 12:54 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece...

What else is there to a piece? grin

If you can't stand the original, try some of the Godowsky studies on it. They'll drive you up the wall. laugh


To be more specific the opening motive, which gets varied, and also the sound the tremolo-like sound created makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I'm familiar with the Godowsky studies, doesn't help.

Doesn't hurt either? grin

You don't like any tremolos?


I love tremolos, in fact the Legend No.2 has plenty in the first few pages, and I love playing them. However, I think that alone is a testament to how much I dislike the sounds that come out of that Black Key etude.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

Top
#2205441 - 12/31/13 12:54 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Dwscamel]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19873
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Dwscamel
....I think a big part of it is simply not "getting" Scriabin's later music. The structure is rarely obvious to me.

I don't blame you -- and not just about the structure but about everything. It took me about 100 years to even start getting it, and then, it was only by accident. It was on a Horowitz record that I listened to for the other pieces, and I was usually too lazy to get up and turn it off before it got to the Scriabin. I didn't listen. But eventually it sort of sunk in. grin

And when it did, it was like, hey, this is pretty far out! In a good way I mean. smile

Before I 'got it,' I sort of couldn't stand it. But not enough to make me get up and turn it off. ha

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#2205442 - 12/31/13 12:55 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Something about the harmony, melody, and overall texture of the piece...

What else is there to a piece? grin

If you can't stand the original, try some of the Godowsky studies on it. They'll drive you up the wall. laugh


To be more specific the opening motive, which gets varied, and also the sound the tremolo-like sound created makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I'm familiar with the Godowsky studies, doesn't help.

Doesn't hurt either? grin

You don't like any tremolos?


I love tremolos, in fact the Legend No.2 has plenty in the first few pages, and I love playing them. However, I think that alone is a testament to how much I dislike the sounds that come out of that Black Key etude.

If it were in another key, would that solve the problem?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205446 - 12/31/13 01:03 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
If it were in another key, would that solve the problem?


Probably not, although a minor key might make it more palatable.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

Top
#2205448 - 12/31/13 01:05 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4263
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Anything played on the flute by Sir James Galway.

The antiquated music of Papa Haydn.

Listeneing to Peter Sellers accompanying himself
with his tuning spoons (please refer to the Goon Show)

Ravel's Bolero.

I feel much better now ... regards btb

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#2205449 - 12/31/13 01:07 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
If it were in another key, would that solve the problem?


Probably not, although a minor key might make it more palatable.

That's an interesting idea - Black Key Etude in F# minor. Why don't you go try it out? (But then it wouldn't be the Black Key Etude any more, would it? laugh )
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205452 - 12/31/13 01:08 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: btb]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: btb
The antiquated music of Papa Haydn.

bah
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205456 - 12/31/13 01:13 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Dwscamel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/22/13
Posts: 513
I thought I'd really offend as many people as possible by throwing out the names I did, but I guess only Bach could do that!
_________________________
Casio PX-150

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#2205459 - 12/31/13 01:16 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Well, you certainly offended me.

(Just kidding. I don't get offended. grin)
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205466 - 12/31/13 01:35 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18292
Loc: Victoria, BC
Well, you had to ask :

Islamey!

Click to reveal..
You knew I'd say that, didn't you!
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2205475 - 12/31/13 01:55 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
If it were in another key, would that solve the problem?


Probably not, although a minor key might make it more palatable.

That's an interesting idea - Black Key Etude in F# minor. Why don't you go try it out? (But then it wouldn't be the Black Key Etude any more, would it? laugh )


I would, but that would involve me learning an etude that I don't like in an experimental key change which may or may not yield positive results. Unfortunately, I'm not at a level where I can grab a Chopin etude and learn it with little time invested, not to mention the fact that I would have to sit down transpose and work out the fingering.
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

Top
#2205476 - 12/31/13 01:57 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Just try out the first four bars or something, and see what happens, no?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205478 - 12/31/13 02:01 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1434
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Just try out the first four bars or something, and see what happens, no?


Oh boy, I'll get back to you on that one....
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

Top
#2205481 - 12/31/13 02:04 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: ChopinLives81]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Just try out the first four bars or something, and see what happens, no?

Oh boy, I'll get back to you on that one....

Surely it's not THAT hard. laugh
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205486 - 12/31/13 02:06 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19873
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: ChopinLives81
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Just try out the first four bars or something, and see what happens, no?

Oh boy, I'll get back to you on that one....

Surely it's not THAT hard. laugh

Sure it is -- he'd need to fabricate a special kind of piano in order for that to still be all on black keys. ha


(That is, of course, all black keys but 1.) smile

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#2205488 - 12/31/13 02:08 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(That is, of course, all black keys but 1.) smile

Huh?
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2205495 - 12/31/13 02:23 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19873
Loc: New York
(the one note in the R.H. near the end that isn't black) smile

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#2205497 - 12/31/13 02:27 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3836
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(the one note in the R.H. near the end that isn't black) smile

And that's why, when I played this piece, I took that note with my left hand!

-J
_________________________
Schubert Immersion: Bb Impromptu; C# minor and Ab Moments Musicaux; accompanying four songs (Suleika II, Rastlose Liebe, Du Liebst Mich Nicht, Im Fruhling); listening intensely to Die Schöne Müllerin and Winterreise

Chopin: first Ballade; Mozart: D minor concerto;

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#2205498 - 12/31/13 02:29 AM Re: What's a piece you just can't stand? [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7777
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
(the one note in the R.H. near the end that isn't black) smile

I don't see the note you're talking about. The whole point of the piece is that the RH is composed only of black notes, aka the pentatonic scale.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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