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The ES7, if i'm not wrong.

I assumed that too. But that didn't seem right. I have always thought/believed that the ES7 was a step above (not "equivalent") the P155. I was not sure if there was a different board.

I would say based on most specs, sound, and action that the ES100 is closer to the P155. However, p155 has USB, output options, maybe better speakers. ES100=$799 and P155=$999. The ES7 is arguably a much better digital piano than the P155, hence additional $800 cost

Actually, any Kaway DP will be better than any Yamaha DP, just because Kawai is not afraid of putting the best technology they can to each DP category. Yamaha is always the same old same old. But yes, I agree with you. I know that here in Brazil, P-155 is about R$2000 cheaper then ES7, but in some countries, it seems they have similar price range.

Just watched the Kraft Music video and the P255 sounds alright, but lacks some life and power, doesn't cut through like some other pianos do. See the Kraft Music demo for Nord Stage 2 for comparison, although a considerably more expensive thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5rn01D8hlE

"Actually, any Kaway DP will be better than any Yamaha DP, just because Kawai is not afraid of putting the best technology they can to each DP category."

That is if all other things are equal. Not everybody likes Kawai acoustics. Kawai only use their own acoustics in producing their digitals. Don`t they?

Tough to know. How a piano sounds in the demo has more to do with the choices of the demo maker than with the quality of the piano. It's nearly impossible to compare pianos based on demos.

Probably the ES6 is the closest comparison as it's from the same period, however even then the Kawai offered arguably superior sound and action quality.

The ES7 was a considerable step-up in quality and features over the ES6, whereas the new P255 seems a little underwhelming - perhaps P170 would have been a more suitable name? The iOS app looks quite nice though.

Cheers,
James
x

The ES7 is $700 more than the p-255. With all due respect for Kawai, I don't think the comparison is reasonable at all. In fact, it makes the ES7 look bad, IMO. Think about it, what features does the ES7 have that makes it worth $700 more?

Thomann.de (Europe) has the Kawai ES7 and Yamaha P255 at the same price, 1399 euros.

http://www.thomann.de/de/kawai_es_7_iw.htm

http://www.thomann.de/de/yamaha_p_255_b.htm

Edit: Almost the same price, depending on which country is selected.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_es_7_iw.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/yamaha_p_255_b.htm

Im very aware of the price deviations (trust me, I used to want the ES7) but simply because it is cheaper somewhere else doesnt mean the additional $700 is just part of my insane imagination! So long as I live in this region, it makes sense to argue the point that the ES7 is not the bargain device, and, in fact, would be a foolish waste of money given the alternatives. That is, unless there really is something of value that warrants the $700 price difference.

Now, if I lived in japan...

If I lived in Europe (or Japan) I would own an ES7. Because I live in the US, I don't. I doubt I'm the only one who has made that judgment call.

I'm afraid I have to agree with carkar about Kawai pricing the ES7 out of the US market compared to Yamaha's competing offerings.

I still prefer the Yamaha sound.

Prices in Europe (Thomann.de):

- Kawai ES7: €1390 ($1883)
- Yamaha P255: €1399 ($1895)
- Roland FP-80: €1698 ($2300)

Prices in North America (Kraft.com):

- Kawai ES7: $1999 (€1475)
- Yamaha P255: $1299 (€958)
- Roland FP-80: $1999 (€1475)

So what does this mean?

That the Kawai is under-priced in Europe and over-priced in the US?
That the Yamaha is under-priced in the US, but over-priced in Europe?
That the Roland is over-priced in Europe, but correctly-priced in the US?

Perhaps a combination of all three?

Unfortunately, the pricing structures for Kawai, Yamaha, and Roland instruments are not directly comparable from one market to the next. There are a number of factors that need to be taken into consideration, related to how the instruments are distributed in each country, and how the various sister companies are operated etc.

Kind regards,
James
x

Sorry carkar, I wasn't questioning your sanity, sorry if it came out that way. I knew you were in the U.S., since you talked about dollars, and I was not suggesting you were making up that $700 price difference.

I was simply pointing this out as information for those who are in Europe, if they are in your shoes, deciding which piano to buy. Also drawing attention to the inconsistencies in pricing between the two continents.

That inconsistency is not all in favour of us in Europe. Here in Sweden, when I was doing my shopping, the P155 was priced at about 3000 SEK ($500) more than it's competitors, the Privias PX-850 and PX-5S, but those three go at roughly the same price in the U.S., if I'm not mistaken.

Therefore the P155 was out of the question for me, couldn't justify paying more for even less features, though I would be getting Yamaha quality.

I think we can assume that none of these manufacturers are continuously selling products at below cost, so underpricing is out. That leaves overpricing and correct pricing.

It's reasonable to expect differences across countries, but competing products should be priced similarly within a given market. If not, the market is not working right (the manufacturers are not competing). Whether the discrepancies are the fault of dysfunctional distributors or strategic behavior by the manufacturers or something else doesn't really matter. It's worthy of complaint.

European price (includes a VAT, how big is it?) divided by American:

Kawai: 0.94197
Yamaha: 1.4434
Roland: 1.1506

Only Kawai thinks pianos (including VAT) should be cheaper in Europe than America. I'm not sure what import duties apply, but if we ignore those, these ratios should be close to 1 + VAT.

There is, no doubt, a system/structure in place designed to maximize profit, but the rationality behind that system is irrelevant. Under, over, correct...it's all semantics, me thinks. The following reality exists: "$1299 p-255 vs $1999 ES7 within the U.S." The justification to why it is this way does not change this--> "$1299 p-255 vs $1999 ES7 within the U.S." Given the nature of things, when comparing these two devices for a potential future purchase we have to ask, "does the benefit of the ES7 out-weight the difference in cost". I think it's quite obvious...

MP7, on the other hand ...

Between 20 and 25% usually, but most countries have two rates, a standard and a reduced one. I'm pretty sure digital pianos fall into the standard (higher) rate. My home country, Iceland, has the dubious honor of holding the world record, highest VAT in the world, 25,5%, but Sweden has it at 25%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_value_added_tax#VAT_rates

I was looking for a video that showed off the sound for the p-255, this is all there was:
[video:youtube]hHAFLVfJLxU[/video]

Also, to hear a better sample of what the p-255 sounds like, it's best to download this iOS app and listen to the samples that are recorded.

https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/p-255-controller/id765341907?mt=8