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#2206058 - 12/31/13 10:47 PM Sonata form advice
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
I'm writing my first real piece, with an exposition and everything. So far I love what I've written, and I believe it's more my own sound. I'm dead-set on developing a middle section and a recap and I already have my ending written. I've read about sonata form but this is still really difficult. Any advice?
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#2206062 - 12/31/13 10:57 PM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6364
Loc: New York City
I'm not sure what you're asking for. An explanation of sonata form?
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#2206065 - 12/31/13 11:02 PM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: Polyphonist]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
More like advice for developing and returning back to the main theme convincingly. Maybe there's no way to give advice for that but if there is I would appreciate it.
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#2206069 - 12/31/13 11:05 PM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6364
Loc: New York City
It's much too broad a question to answer without seeing your exposition, and even then music is a very individual art and I doubt you would take any suggestion I offered you. So why bother in the first place?
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#2206114 - 01/01/14 12:50 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Nikolas Online   content
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Hem... a sonata form is a difficult one to even grasp, let alone master. You can have all the world of development in shorter pieces. Don't start from the top. wink
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#2206117 - 01/01/14 12:52 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6364
Loc: New York City
It seems like Joel has already abandoned this thread, so perhaps he is taking your advice. grin
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#2206159 - 01/01/14 01:47 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4151
No, I haven't abandoned this thread.

Nikolas, my longest piece was about 1 1/2 minutes, but that wasn't in any form. How small should I be writing if I'm going to start practicing sonata form?
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#2206163 - 01/01/14 01:50 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6364
Loc: New York City
The works of yours that I've seen contain little or no thematic development, which is a crucial element of a sonata, so I suggest that you practice that by writing a theme and variations.
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Polyphonist

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#2206165 - 01/01/14 01:58 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: JoelW]
Nikolas Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 4994
Loc: Europe
Theme and variations is a good idea.

Or even better, go REALLY small, by using a pattern, or a small motif to expand to a theme and variations.

You know this theme, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HbMzu1aQW8

Well the first three notes are EbDD (16th, 16th, 8th). WHAT can you do with THAT alone? Can you alter it, taking it up and down, changing the pitches, change the rhythm (retrograde it), etc...

Start small.

Don't work with themes at all, just with motifs that YOU will turn into themes.
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#2206171 - 01/01/14 02:07 AM Re: Sonata form advice [Re: Nikolas]
Polyphonist Online   content
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 6364
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Nikolas
]Well the first three notes are EbDD (16th, 16th, 8th).

Actually, it's 8th, 8th, quarter. wink

Originally Posted By: Nikolas
Don't work with themes at all, just with motifs that YOU will turn into themes.

+1

And look at Beethoven's music. He is the master of taking a tiny motif and developing it into an entire movement. Witness, for example, the first movements of the 5th, 6th, and 7th symphonies.
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