Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum The Miracle of CA Treatment

Am musing about how useful the CA treatment for loose tuning pins is.

In recent times I've been much more inclined to use it as first treatment for the odd loose pin, rather than card/veneer/sandpaper shims. It's minimally invasive - it doesn't involve slackening strings, unhooking coils, turning out (and back in) tuning pins. And it works very quickly.

I've done a few complete pinblocks now. I'm not talking here about top-notch pianos that would merit new pinblocks (wrest planks for those who prefer UK terminology), but ordinary old pianos that would otherwise have to be scrapped. (Not that many workshops in the UK fit new pinblocks anyway - even Steinway ship them off to Hamburg to get done).

A case in point this week: At the end of December I went to tune the little grand piano of a charming retired couple in their eighties, whom I love visiting as they are delightful people. She registered blind but incredibly independent, he a retired naval Commander. The piano had been his parents', and his father, a Rear-Admiral, had asked him always to keep it when it passed to them.

I found when I called to tune it at the end of December, that the pins had reached the stage of really not holding well at all. I got it tuned for a soirée on the 31st December, then returned this week, applied the low-viscosity CA treatment, and tuned it again. It responded extremely well to the treatment.

This means that this beautiful elderly couple can enjoy the piano for the rest of their days. For a relatively modest expenditure it has been rescued. It would not have been a candidate for a new pinblock, so would otherwise either have been thrown out or (more likely) kept as an ornament.

The CA treatment has been in use in the USA for over a decade now, and as far as I know there are no negative reports.

Years ago, when CA glues were new on the market, a piano book of the time commented in relation to these new adhesives, that there didn't seem to be much use for them in piano work!

I've stopped counting how many pianos I saved because of CA glue.

A well respected tech here in Tucson said that in
his experience, Garfield's pin block restorer was
a better solution.

He felt that the CA should be used only as a last ditch
effort before replacing the pin block, or trashing the
piano completely. He said the CA worked, but then the
tuning became erratic, with the tuning suddenly slipping
too flat or too sharp, and not smooth.

However, I have to say that description can apply to
pins that are not loose, and have not been treated!

Reading about piano repair, I keep coming across this dedicated chemical sold at piano supply houses that is for applying at pin bases to fix slipping pins, but the scuttle butt is that one should not use this if there could ever be a time one would want to replace pins as this gums up the wood and makes pin replacement impossible. Does CA glue have the same warning for it? If I would ever want to replace my #2 pins with larger ones, does CA glue make that impossible or difficult?

Use the search function top left of your screen, courtesy of PW and google.

The glycerin based "pin-block restorers" sold by some supply houses have been eliminated from the "option" category by most experienced technicians. CA and/or shims are the main method of treating loose tuning pin problems.

The materials are very compact and portable.

Realize that CA requires a level of humidity to set up... Perhaps that is the reason that the Arizona tech. didn't have much luck with it!

Ron

I agree! I too have "saved" several pianos with a CA treatment. When I started tuning, I did not know about CA glue. I have a 1936 Baldwin Grand that I service. I had treated the pins with Pin-tite. It held for about two years. Last winter when conditions were very dry, several of the bass pins would no longer hold. I did a CA glue treatment wondering if it would work seeing as how they had previously been treated with Pin-tite. The CA glue worked great and are still holding to this day. It makes me sad to think of the many pianos that have been trashed simply because we did not know about CA treatments.

Personally, I swear by the stuff. I was very sceptical when I first heard about it over lunch at a guild meeting, but after trying it on a couple basket cases, and seeing the results, it's my first recommendation in most cases - except where we are doing a new pinblock, pins and strings in a major overhaul. Here's what I give my customers to explain the process.

Not long ago, I was going through my supply shelves and came across a couple bottles of Garfields and a half dozen bottles of Lundsford. I pitched them.

Best wishes for a great New Year, all! Chuck

The Garfields and the other glycerin based dopes are extremely old school and quite frankly, not worth the effort to use. Some pianos treated with them the wood eventually goes spongey and weak. I been using CA for over a decade in cases where its warranted and never had complaints. I use Mercury Adhesives CA as they have unique attributes (the glue and dispensers) and are of the highest quality. Biggest hassle is tipping uprights and ventilation but other than that, its a quick relatively fool proof solution to marginally loose pins.

Mercury, Hot Stuff, Bob Smit's, Satellite city etc... just visit your local hobby shop.

Another plus is that the CA seems to work even when other stuff has been applied before and left residue in the wood. I don;t have experience with that myself, but other techs report success with CA, even when old-fashioned 'restorers' have previously been used.

Chuck, I have your excellent CA information sheet on my website, and sometimes hand printed copies to customers.

A while ago I attended a piano where a previous tech had fitted three of the metal sleeves to loose pins, which were still untunably loose (and the coils ugly). I took the three pins out, removed the sleeves, coated the whole surface of the holes with CA, left them a few minutes, replaced the pins, and they were prefectly tight and tunable. No shims needed at all. https://www.facebook.com/DavidBoycePiano#!/media/set/?set=a.512581788807153.1073741841.244714395593895&type=1

David, what are the most suitable CA products available in the UK?

Yes, yes, yes! I have saved pianos countless times now too.

I've been using a brand called BondFix which I bought on Ebay, three bottles for the price of two, and it's been great. I apply it with plastic pipettes, also bought on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BondFix-S...ing_Glue_Tape_EH&hash=item19cb45ff23

I did by chance discover an extremely thin superglue in bottles in one of the Pound Shops, which I've not tried on tuning pins so far.

In general however, it's hard to find low-viscosity superglue in DIY stores and on the high street. They tend to stock medium viscosity and the gel type (high viscosity). The low viscosity is better at wicking in round the pins.

Is it possible to lower viscosity of CA glue with some kind of a solvent? The reason I ask is that we have only a small packages of CA glue available here, and it has medium viscosity, not low. I have tried to use it, but it does not reach deep around the pin, so I need to make it lower. Thanks.

I'm not an expert on CA glue, but I'm not aware of any additive, and I don't think its as good idea to mess about with adding things. Maybe you could obtain a supply from another country? It may be, too, that you could find a "medium" visicosity that is reasonably runny and will wick in around the pins.

Talk to model airplane builders, they use it extensively. Hobby shops carry all viscosities. I never buy in large quantities, it thickens over time. You want a fresh batch every time. It MUST be the "super-thin" viscosity. Medium won't work, plus if you use it, you won't be able to apply a second application. It has to be thinner than water.

Many thanks, David.

Amazon UK lists some super thin varieties. I believe it was Bill Bremmer recommended model shops sometime back because they have a quick turnover and supplies tend to be fresh.

Hobby shops do sell a solvent to get your fingers apart which you will do. But I have never tried to thin down medium viscosity with it, and I would not be confident in it working.