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...play very little or even no (non transcribed) Bach? (Pianists with a ? are ones I'm less sure fall in this category)
Here are some that I think fall in this category:Horowitz, Rubinstein, Rachmaninov, Bolet, Trifonov(although he says Bach is his favorite composer), Casadesus(?),Cherkassky(?), Cliburn, Cortot(?), Volodos, Kissin, Friedman, Hamelin, Hoffman, Hough, Kapell(?). Katsaris, Lhevinne, Michelangeli, Uchida.
I also checked the 23 recital programs for the 2013 IKIF at Mannes in NYC.
Only around 2 of the about 23 recitalists included any Bach in their program.
It's quite a small sample and at the same time your post doesn't make a distinction between composers performed/recorded and composers played in general. For example, maybe Trifonov would play Bach mostly if given the opportunity to do whatever he wants. But given that he's in a position where he needs to respond to audience demand, he's not yet able to dedicate himself to his favorite composer.
At the same time, it's hard to imagine a pianist not playing tons of Bach during the developmental phase. So if you were to compare Bach's contribution to the average pianist's development against any other composer it might be similarly out of balance. Maybe most pianists need a break from all that Bach and only a percentage make it back.
I have serious doubts that Trifonov can't play mostly what he wants or that audiences would object to some Bach from him. His latest program opens with Stravinsky's Serenade en La, hardly an audience pleaser.
Nor am I sure that most pianists play a lot of Bach to the detriment of other composers at any stage of their learning curve although it's reasonable that some have studied more Bach than their performing repertoire would indicate. My impression(that's all it is) is that many move into playing mostly post Baroque music rather quickly.
Could be, but I'd be curious to know how most people have developed their rep or how they choose what they play. For me, the music that I play the most is not the same as the music that I listen to most. And sometimes I'm not sure how that happened.
The other reason for my comments is because when I listened to Schiff many years ago I saw him as primarily a Bach, Mozart, Schubert pianist. I assumed he didn't care for other composers such as Chopin and Beethoven (comparatively). I was obviously dead wrong about that after hearing him in recent interviews.
I suspect there are a number of reasons, some already mentioned, though I don't think in the larger picture, Bach is as neglected as you assume.
Unfortunately for Bach he got caught up in the whole "authenticity" debacle. Not only can't we play him on the piano, but unless we do lots of ornaments, and the right ones, your Bach stinks and worse it is "incorrect" or "inauthentic". Phooey I say.
I think the efforts by Andras Schiff, Andrei Gavrilov, and to a lesser extent Gould, Tipo and a few others to play and record Bach's complete works, or very large chunks of it, make them the experts of the subject. It becomes more of a specialty, still played a lot, but just in different venues.
If you spend even a few moments on uTube you quickly discover a lot of Bach from nearly every name you can think of.
With that said, I personally probably spend 8 - 10 hours a week playing Bach's music. You can teach a monkey to play fast (I am proof of that!) but it takes a true musician to play a fugue.
I think though you have swerved into a very complex subject.
I suspect there are a number of reasons, some already mentioned, though I don't think in the larger picture, Bach is as neglected as you assume.
Unfortunately for Bach he got caught up in the whole "authenticity" debacle. Not only can't we play him on the piano, but unless we do lots of ornaments, and the right ones, your Bach stinks and worse it is "incorrect" or "inauthentic". Phooey I say.
I think the efforts by Andras Schiff, Andrei Gavrilov, and to a lesser extent Gould, Tipo and a few others to play and record Bach's complete works, or very large chunks of it, make them the experts of the subject. It becomes more of a specialty, still played a lot, but just in different venues.
If you spend even a few moments on uTube you quickly discover a lot of Bach from nearly every name you can think of.
With that said, I personally probably spend 8 - 10 hours a week playing Bach's music. You can teach a monkey to play fast (I am proof of that!) but it takes a true musician to play a fugue.
I think though you have swerved into a very complex subject.
I agree with most of this and that there's tons of Bach performed and recorded.
I also think it's not a great time investment (as others have mentioned). Both the difficulty in getting it right (I also think it's harder to memorize), and the expectation of a lack of appreciation for your efforts (as stated by some) makes it a hard thing to commit to.
[quote=Pathbreaker I agree with most of this and that there's tons of Bach performed and recorded.
I also think it's not a great time investment (as others have mentioned). Both the difficulty in getting it right (I also think it's harder to memorize), and the expectation of a lack of appreciation for your efforts (as stated by some) makes it a hard thing to commit to. [/quote]
It depends on whom you are trying to please. I agree, I have always had a harder time memorizing and learning for that matter Bach's music. I play his music often in church (today both preludes and fugues in Eb/D# minor WTC BK 1& 2). I don't really care, even in a solo recital, if my audience appreciates Bach. I do and that is all that matters to me.
See, you get to say that when you are older and mean it. When I was younger I said but didn't believe it.
(Sorry about the screwed up quote, I still haven't figured out how to always get it right.)
Last edited by anrpiano; 01/12/1407:10 PM. Reason: see last line
I believe the technical challenge of playing Bach is that perhaps there is the expectation that Bach should sound on a piano as if it is not at all a piano that is being played. In fact, that the piano should almost sound like a harpsichord or clavecin. The great Bach interpreters apparently were able to create that illusion. Now Bach sounds good on almost any instrument, including my hand-orgue, and I am not at all of the persuasion that Bach should/could only be played on period instruments at the penalty of excommunication, but there is something in it I believe. Modern pianos create great sound, but in Bach another dimension is needed. I am not saying that Bach doesn't deserve a great sounding instrument, but there is something "abstract" -- beyond sound in Bach more than in any other composer. Can anyone, please, challenge me on this?
Don't get me wrong, I play a lot of Bach (and during a period almost exclusively so) but I found very few really successful interpretations (even among the names mentioned above) among recordings. This one is an exception:
To be enjoyable to an audience, Bach keyboard music has to be played very, very well. If played very, very well, it brings the house down. But it's not like Chopin which will still sound pretty and dramatic even if played rather badly.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
To be enjoyable to an audience, Bach keyboard music has to be played very, very well. If played very, very well, it brings the house down. But it's not like Chopin which will still sound pretty and dramatic even if played rather badly.
I think the efforts by Andras Schiff, Andrei Gavrilov, and to a lesser extent Gould, Tipo and a few others to play and record Bach's complete works, or very large chunks of it, make them the experts of the subject.
None of the above have recorded Bach's complete keyboard works. Playing and recording a composer's complete oeuvre, or large portions thereof, does not make one an expert.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
I don't mind piano for solo Bach, but with an orchestra the harpsichord is essential in my opinion.
Hahaha... and then you can barely hear the harpsichord. You've not ever heard a harpsichord with orchestra in person have you?
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
I don't mind piano for solo Bach, but with an orchestra the harpsichord is essential in my opinion.
Hahaha... and then you can barely hear the harpsichord. You've not ever heard a harpsichord with orchestra in person have you?
Every single day.
Well then, you're a lucky guy. Can't say I've ever known ANYONE who has been able to hear a harpsichordist play with orchestra live every single day.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
I don't mind piano for solo Bach, but with an orchestra the harpsichord is essential in my opinion.
Hahaha... and then you can barely hear the harpsichord. You've not ever heard a harpsichord with orchestra in person have you?
Every single day.
Well then, you're a lucky guy. Can't say I've ever known ANYONE who has been able to hear a harpsichordist play with orchestra live every single day.
Well, now you can.
Who plays the harpsichord and with what orchestra?
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
Who plays the harpsichord and with what orchestra?
Various harpsichordists and the H. E. Pennypacker philharmonic orchestra.
I see. I prefer the Vandelay Camerata myself.
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
