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#2213180 - 01/12/14 12:50 AM Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today
michaelha Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 1061
Hi, I'm new to the digital forum, usually hang out on the acoustic side.

But today I found myself in a Kawai dealer and finally got to put my hands on a Kawai CS-10.

It looks great and sounds great, BUT, it doesn't quite feel like a real action. While pressing the keys, the resistance feels very consistent throughout the travel, which is not how, at least my, acoustic piano's action feels. This seems to affect the way you play ppp.

I've also played Yamaha's AG's, their actions feel like Yamaha actions which I like fairly well. My complaint with the Yamaha AG's were they sounded pretty small and of course it sounded like a Yamaha.

So I liked the Kawai CS-10 sound but the Yamaha AG's action. Maybe the next model will put these two things together.

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#2213191 - 01/12/14 01:29 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: michaelha]
peterws Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 4097
Loc: Northern England.
I`ve said the opposite. Like Yamaha`s sound, but prefer Kawai`s action. You can get yer fingers between the black keys better . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2213201 - 01/12/14 02:23 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: peterws]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 576
Loc: Spanish living in UK
That's something I have noticed with my CA65 (I think it's the CS7 but with another cabinet), but everybody keeps saying that the exposed keys are standard size. ???

Anyway, now I play between the black keys far easier than before.

I tried a Yamaha NU1 and it was veeeery nice, but completely out of my budget and emulating an acoustic and not a grand. I haven't had the chance to try the AGs to compare but am curious (not that I can buy them anyway).


Edited by evamar (01/12/14 02:23 AM)
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2213256 - 01/12/14 07:12 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: michaelha]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5857
Originally Posted By: michaelh


It looks great and sounds great, BUT, it doesn't quite feel like a real action. While pressing the keys, the resistance feels very consistent throughout the travel, which is not how, at least my, acoustic piano's action feels. This seems to affect the way you play ppp.



Are you talking about the 'let-off' (escapement) feel, the slight extra resistance when you press the key down slowly before getting lighter again, which mimics that in acoustic pianos? I thought all Kawai DPs have this feature, but I must admit I've only ever played the high-end ones.

You'll find that (almost) all Yamaha DPs with the exception of the AvantGrands and NU1, are also lacking in this 'let-off' feel.
_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2213286 - 01/12/14 09:11 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: michaelha]
Pete14 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 367
The action on the new CA line feels too light and bouncy for me. I owned a MP 10, and honestly prefer that action over the GF action. The third sensor + added key length should've made for a substantial improvement, yet somehow Kawai missed the mark. Still, Kawai actions are good and quiet. I wonder if the new Yamaha TransAcoustic will close the gap. It uses only a soundboard for sound reproduction, sympathetic string resonance is not simulated since it happens naturally (real strings), and you also get a real damper mechanism.

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#2213288 - 01/12/14 09:16 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: Pete14]
enzo.sandrolini Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 275
Loc: Europe - France
Originally Posted By: Pete14
I wonder if the new Yamaha TransAcoustic will close the gap. It uses only a soundboard for sound reproduction, sympathetic string resonance is not simulated since it happens naturally (real strings), and you also get a real damper mechanism.

Wow..how did you get all these information ?
I am longing for NAMM for having more info on this 'transacoustic'
_________________________
Music is a lifestyle

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#2213302 - 01/12/14 09:43 AM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: michaelha]
Pete14 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 367
There's a video on Youtube. Check out the demo on the C3X. there's an English version, and a German version. The guy playing shows the real sympathetic string resonance by playing a chord, and holding it down; he then lowers the volume. You can hear the resonances coming (according to him ) from the actual strings. I'm really intrigued by this instrument/system. No speakers, true sympathetic resonance, damper mechanism, etc....

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#2213416 - 01/12/14 02:10 PM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: bennevis]
michaelha Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 1061
Originally Posted By: bennevis

Are you talking about the 'let-off' (escapement) feel, the slight extra resistance when you press the key down slowly before getting lighter again, which mimics that in acoustic pianos? I thought all Kawai DPs have this feature, but I must admit I've only ever played the high-end ones.

You'll find that (almost) all Yamaha DPs with the exception of the AvantGrands and NU1, are also lacking in this 'let-off' feel.


Yes, the motion when pressing down. The resistance feels pretty consistent throughout the push, doesn't lighten up towards the bottom half of the push.

I also played the Yamaha NU1 and didn't like the action either. The keys seem to come to a really hard stop, like there's no felt under the keys. Not sure if I'm explaining it right.

Re: the AG's sound. The bass seems really lacking and overall volume seems small too. Even on the N3 with the extra speakers and amps, cranked up all the way, it seemed to have the volume of a Yamaha C1.

It could also be that I'm comparing to my RX5 (6'6") that's in the corner of my living room with hardwood floors, no rugs, and the N3 was in a carpeted showroom in the center of the room. But when I played the CS-10, that thing has pretty big sound.

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#2213509 - 01/12/14 04:51 PM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: michaelha]
bennevis Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5857
Originally Posted By: michaelh

Re: the AG's sound. The bass seems really lacking and overall volume seems small too. Even on the N3 with the extra speakers and amps, cranked up all the way, it seemed to have the volume of a Yamaha C1.

It could also be that I'm comparing to my RX5 (6'6") that's in the corner of my living room with hardwood floors, no rugs, and the N3 was in a carpeted showroom in the center of the room. But when I played the CS-10, that thing has pretty big sound.

Interesting the way Yamaha and Kawai both claim their AGs and CS-10 respectively as 'hybrids' grin.

_________________________
"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."

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#2213523 - 01/12/14 05:09 PM Re: Played a Kawai CS-10 and CS-7 Today [Re: bennevis]
spanishbuddha Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2549
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: michaelh

Re: the AG's sound. The bass seems really lacking and overall volume seems small too. Even on the N3 with the extra speakers and amps, cranked up all the way, it seemed to have the volume of a Yamaha C1.

It could also be that I'm comparing to my RX5 (6'6") that's in the corner of my living room with hardwood floors, no rugs, and the N3 was in a carpeted showroom in the center of the room. But when I played the CS-10, that thing has pretty big sound.

Interesting the way Yamaha and Kawai both claim their AGs and CS-10 respectively as 'hybrids' grin.


Yes we've discussed this on here before. AG's have the key action, Kawai's have the soundboard and wooden keys. Who's to say.

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