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#2212913 - 01/11/14 03:22 PM USB audio device MIDI connection
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Hello,
currently I am using MIDI-USB cable to connect DP to PC. If I buy USB Audio interface (most likely Steinberg UR22), do I have to use MIDI-MIDI cable to connect DP to UR22 ? Or it does not matter which way is MIDI connected ?
Thanx
_________________________
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Kawai CL-36
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#2212953 - 01/11/14 04:26 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
Morodiene Offline
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Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11764
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
It depends what you want to do. What is the purpose for the audio interface if you just are trying to get MIDI to the PC?
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#2212993 - 01/11/14 05:37 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
My current setup is Piano-PC(Pianoteq)-Headphones.
I just bought studio monitors today and I would like to connect them as well. I could use Y cable to connect both headphones and monitors using stereo jack connector on PC sound card (SB X-FI) or I could use external USB audio card.
BTW monitors I bought are second-hand (60) Fostex 0.4n and they are very nice.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2213007 - 01/11/14 05:54 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
joflah Online   content
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Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 297
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
I would think that after you hook up the USB sound card, you'd have the associated midi inputs show up in the software input select along with the old midi input. If you leave the old midi input selected, you shouldn't need a new cable. Probably, the audio out and midi input parts of the external sound card can be used independently.
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#2213018 - 01/11/14 06:04 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
You could use the USD MIDI cable to connect your DP with a UR22 and the Fostex 0.4n monitors. You would use the headphone jack of the UR22 when not using the monitors. The UR22 would do what the internal soundcard does and offer more.


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#2213028 - 01/11/14 06:24 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
So basically I don't have to use MIDI connectors on UR22 at all, right ? And I don't have to buy regular MIDI-MIDI cable.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
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Kawai CL-36
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#2213030 - 01/11/14 06:27 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: o0Ampy0o]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
You could use the USD MIDI cable to connect your DP with a UR22 and the Fostex 0.4n monitors. You would use the headphone jack of the UR22 when not using the monitors. The UR22 would do what the internal soundcard does and offer more.


I can not directly connect piano with UR22 using midi-usb cable as there is no usb input connector on UR22. I would have to buy midi-midi cable to do it.


Edited by jarosujo (01/11/14 06:29 PM)
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
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Kawai CL-36
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#2213050 - 01/11/14 07:18 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 434
Loc: UK
I don't think you need an external audio interface costing 100 if you just want to connect both monitors and headphones. Like you said, you could use a splitter, or a small mixer. It seems that the UR22 is mainly useful if your keyboard doesn't have USB midi.

I have a Tapco mixer much like the Behringer 802, and have my piano, drum machine, phone dock / mp3 player attached to both monitors and headphones. It's nice to have physical knobs to adjust the volume of each. You can leave the computer on constant volume and won't have to mess about turning the monitors on and off as you would if just using a splitter. The EQ is sometimes useful as well.
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#2213069 - 01/11/14 08:06 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 619
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
Hello,
currently I am using MIDI-USB cable to connect DP to PC. If I buy USB Audio interface (most likely Steinberg UR22), do I have to use MIDI-MIDI cable to connect DP to UR22 ? Or it does not matter which way is MIDI connected ?
Thanx


I currently use the UR22 (the microphone preamps are excellent) and you could either use MIDI to MIDI into the UR22 or go the MIDI to USB route on your PC which would then use an additional usb port.
I prefer going MIDI to MIDI on the UR22 and then ur22 to the pc
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#2213273 - 01/12/14 08:03 AM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Looks like mixer will serve for now. With UR22 I was thinking kind of future proof if I decide to buy new laptop for Pianoteq. I checked local shop and they showed me Behringer xenyx 502 for 42. It has no USB -is it really useful feature ? I don't use DAW very often, just Pianoteq for playing.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2213297 - 01/12/14 09:28 AM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
newbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 286
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
Looks like mixer will serve for now. With UR22 I was thinking kind of future proof if I decide to buy new laptop for Pianoteq. I checked local shop and they showed me Behringer xenyx 502 for 42. It has no USB -is it really useful feature ? I don't use DAW very often, just Pianoteq for playing.


I have my DP, laptop computer and an iPad all connected to my Xenyx 502 and it all works fine together. (I use Pianoteq Stage on the laptop.)

Quoted from another thread, here's how I have my devices hooked up thru it:

I have the iPad connected to Input 1, the DP to Input 2 (ie - the left input of Input 2/3). Then I have the laptop computer connected to the "2-Track" (Tape Player) input. The headphones are connected to headphone jack of the mixer. Works great for my needs.


One thing to note, if you buy it: The Line 1 input is MONO, not stereo. (A stereo to stereo cable will NOT work on that input. Only a stereo to mono cable will work there).


Note that the DP's MIDI OUT goes to the laptop and the DP's "audio out" goes to the mixer. This provides me flexibility to either play the DP using it's built-in voices OR turn the DP volume all the way down and use the DP strictly as a controller for Pianoteq. Therefore, in my case, there is no need for the mixer to have USB capability (which the Xenyx 502 doesn't).

This setup works fine for my purposes. I paid about $45 for the mixer. I hope this helps.
_________________________
Bert


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#2213381 - 01/12/14 01:10 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Thanx all for help, everything connected to Xenyx 502 and working fine.
BTW I paid more money for cables than for mixer :-)
I got sick of poor quality cables, which break all the time.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
Pianoteq Standard + Intel NUC DC3217BY + Sennheiser HD598 + Fostex PM0.4n + NI Audio 2

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#2213391 - 01/12/14 01:21 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 434
Loc: UK
newbert - why do you only connect your iPad and DP in mono? Your mixer has 2 stereo inputs (2/3 and 4/5) so why not use them?

Re: USB - it'll save you an extra cable from your computer's audio out to the mixer. There is a Q502 model that has USB. But the USB mixers mostly have their power supply dependent on USB as well, so it becomes useless when not connected to the computer. Non-USB should be perfectly adequate.

Re: Cables - I found the major improvement came when using balanced TRS (i.e. not mono TS) cables between the mixer and monitors. Much less noise.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Roland FP3 / Pianoteq Stage / Tannoy Reveal Active / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22 / K&M 18810

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#2213432 - 01/12/14 02:47 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: lolatu]
newbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 286
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By: lolatu
newbert - why do you only connect your iPad and DP in mono? Your mixer has 2 stereo inputs (2/3 and 4/5) so why not use them?.....


Excellent question..... It prompted me to take another look at my set-up. The mixer's imputs are: Line 1 (mono), Lines 2/3, Lines 4/5 and Tape L/R inputs. The inputs for Lines 2/3 and Lines 4/5 are marked "Mono" (for L only) and "Bal or Unbalanced".

As I've said previously I'm no electronics expert (by a long shot), so I barely understand the basics. To answer your questions about why my setup is this way --

a) My headphone cable (1/4''jacks) is mono, so I have it connecting my DP to Line 2 of the mixer. I just checked the specs of my DP (DGX640) and the output from the phone jack is indeed stereo, so that I could get a different cable to hook this up in stereo. My question is - would this be a big improvement in sound? (I don't know - I'm being serious when I ask this).

b) Connecting my iPad to the Mono Line 1 input of my mixer was simply faulty thinking on my part. When I first got the mixer, I was getting lots of static and couldn't get things set up right (trying to use cables that I already had). The best results I got with the iPad was connecting it to Line 1, but it still certainly wasn't optimal. I recently discovered that the problem was that I was using a stereo cable into a mono input. So, I simply bought an adaptor which allowed it to be used with the Mono input - I never considered that perhaps I should have just bought a Y-adapter to use it with Inputs 4/5 (which are presently unused) instead. Duh!

So, now you've got me re-thinking my hookups. Is it worthwhile (sound-wise) to get proper stereo cables and jacks and do as you suggest?

Thanks!
_________________________
Bert


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#2213443 - 01/12/14 03:01 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: lolatu]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Originally Posted By: lolatu

Re: USB - it'll save you an extra cable from your computer's audio out to the mixer. There is a Q502 model that has USB. But the USB mixers mostly have their power supply dependent on USB as well, so it becomes useless when not connected to the computer. Non-USB should be perfectly adequate.

Are you saying sound from the PC sound card goes through USB cable, so there is no need to connect PC sound card line-out to mixer input ?

Newbert: Regarding mono line input 1/2 on the mixer - I don't use it at all, I believe these two connectors are suitable for microphone/guitar... Definitely not for Piano/IPAD/MP3 player... These all are stereo and need to go to line 2/3 or line 4/5 or tape L/R.
_________________________
Yamaha NP-V80 (sold)
Yamaha DGX640 (sold)
Kawai CL-36
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#2213497 - 01/12/14 04:34 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
newbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 286
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
[quote=lolatu]Newbert: Regarding mono line input 1/2 on the mixer - I don't use it at all, I believe these two connectors are suitable for microphone/guitar... Definitely not for Piano/IPAD/MP3 player... These all are stereo and need to go to line 2/3 or line 4/5 or tape L/R.


Agreed - that would be ideal. Tape L?R is already being successfully used for my laptop computer's output, so is no longer available for the DP or iPad.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to get a cable that will split the 1/8" stereo output of the iPad to two 1/4" Mono inputs of the mixer. I just returned from Radio Shack and they couldn't help me. (They said that inputs 2/3 and 4/5 are actually Mono. In other words (for example) Input 2 is Mono for the left track, while Input 3 is also Mono for the right track, so a Mono plug is needed in each. I believe that this is correct, No? Because when I try a stereo plug in these inputs, it doesn't work well.) So, for now, I continue to use a single audio cable (1/8" stereo on the iPad side) with an adapter to 1/4" Mono on the mixer side (Line 1). Using a stereo 1/4" adapter into only Input 3 or Input 5 results in very low, uneven volume with scratches and pops.

I've also swapped out the Mono cable that I was using for the DP with a stereo 1/4" (on DP side) split to 2 mono 1/4" into Lines 4/5. The only difference I hear from before is higher volume and clearer sound overall. (I need to set my DP volume lower now.) However, I can't say that the overall sound is improved. I don't get any stereo separation from the DP, so I don't really see the point of stereo output for a DP. Am I missing the point there?

Thanks!
_________________________
Bert


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#2213522 - 01/12/14 05:08 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
jarosujo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Slovakia
Input 2/3 is STEREO input, it has two mono female 6.3mm (1/4 jack) connectors. Same with 4/5.
You need this type of cable:

It has 3.5mm stereo jack on one side, which goes to iPAD/PC sound card/MP3 player... and two 6.3mm mono jacks which you connect to input 2/3 or 4/5 on mixer.

To connect DP to mixer, you need similar cable, but instead of small 3.5mm stereo jack you use big 6.3mm stereo jack which goes to DP and again 2x 6.3mm mono jack which go to input 2/3 or 4/5. I don't think you have only mono output from your DP, I have never seen anything like that.


Edited by jarosujo (01/12/14 05:13 PM)
_________________________
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#2213563 - 01/12/14 06:11 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
newbert Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/13
Posts: 286
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Originally Posted By: jarosujo
Input 2/3 is STEREO input, it has two mono female 6.3mm (1/4 jack) connectors. Same with 4/5.
You need this type of cable:

It has 3.5mm stereo jack on one side, which goes to iPAD/PC sound card/MP3 player... and two 6.3mm mono jacks which you connect to input 2/3 or 4/5 on mixer.

To connect DP to mixer, you need similar cable, but instead of small 3.5mm stereo jack you use big 6.3mm stereo jack which goes to DP and again 2x 6.3mm mono jack which go to input 2/3 or 4/5. I don't think you have only mono output from your DP, I have never seen anything like that.


You are 100% correct. (Note: I probably wasn't clear in my terninology previously. My DP has stereo output. That "problem" has been solved.)

Yes, I need a cable for my iPad like you indicate in the image. I'm amazed that my 2 local Radio Shack stores don't have one. They don't even have connectors/adapters to jury-rig this type of connection. (shakes head).

Would you have a link to where I could purchase this cable online? I'll look for it on Amazon in the meantime.

Thanks.
_________________________
Bert


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#2213575 - 01/12/14 06:37 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 434
Loc: UK
newbert - I certainly want stereo output for my DP. You will then hear the bass notes more to the left and the treble notes to the right, like when sitting at a real piano. (The only situation you don't really want stereo is when playing live over a PA system, as it would result in one half of the audience getting all the bass and the other all the treble.)

You can order the cables from Amazon or probably eBay etc. The ones with RCA plugs are more common and you can buy RCA-1/4" adaptors, for more flexibility.
_________________________
Kawai CA95 / Roland FP3 / Pianoteq Stage / Tannoy Reveal Active / Sony MDR-7506 / Steinberg UR22 / K&M 18810

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#2213579 - 01/12/14 06:41 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: jarosujo]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 434
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: jarosujo

Are you saying sound from the PC sound card goes through USB cable, so there is no need to connect PC sound card line-out to mixer input ?


I believe so, having read some Amazon reviews. USB is plenty fast enough to handle CD-quality audio. I don't have one myself though.


Edited by lolatu (01/12/14 06:42 PM)
_________________________
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#2213585 - 01/12/14 07:02 PM Re: USB audio device MIDI connection [Re: newbert]
pwl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: newbert
Would you have a link to where I could purchase this cable online? I'll look for it on Amazon in the meantime.

This tiny url is to an Amazon search result page showing that cable in a couple of different lengths: http://tinyurl.com/mbfr4s9

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