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#2216401 - 01/17/14 09:14 PM Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering
Civitas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 10
I'm having a terribly frustrating time with the fingering for the 20 note run in measure 74 (specifically, the four notes in the little "jog" where it goes - F - Gflat - Enat - F -). I've practiced it over and over and cannot find a good way to play it. I keep stumbling over my fingers using the suggested 1-4-2-3. I'd be grateful if someone could (mercifully) provide some advice that works for you.

Regards,

Mark

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#2216428 - 01/17/14 10:14 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
Have you tried 1-3-2-1?

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#2216433 - 01/17/14 10:23 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
phantomFive Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 3035
Loc: California
The fingering seems fine. (Next time can you post a screenshot? It's a pain counting 70 measures).




Pay attention to your wrist movement, it will make that line flow more easily. Specifically on that "jog", as soon as you play the F with your thumb, move your wrist into position so the fourth finger is right over the g-flat.

You might even consider moving your wrist into position slightly before playing the G with your thumb.
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#2216434 - 01/17/14 10:24 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
hreichgott Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 2936
Loc: western MA, USA
If you think of the scale in groups that go 54321, 4321, 4321, 4321, that F is the 1 at the end of the last group. Then the G flat is the start of a new group, Gb-E-F-B, which also finishes with a 1. That might help make some more sense out of the fingering you've been trying.

As for alternatives, I guess you could put 1 on the second F as frenchflip suggests but then good luck getting to the B. Maybe a 1 on the E natural, another 1 on the B, and then you'd have more choices as to the Gb and F?
_________________________
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Working on:
Dvorak, Trio no. 4
Beethoven, Diabelli Variations
Mozart, Sonata for four hands K. 497
Mendelssohn, variations for four hands Op. 83a

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music

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#2216438 - 01/17/14 10:35 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
frenchflip Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/18/13
Posts: 107
Loc: New York, NY
Sorry--my suggestion was for the F-Gb-E-F before the 8va. I also use the 1-4-2-3 for the F-Gb-E-F in the middle of the -20- as is suggested by the editor. My bad--cheers.

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#2216666 - 01/18/14 11:58 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
Civitas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 10
Thanks frenchclip. I had an image of the notes ready to post, but it wouldn't attach. phantomFive, I appreciate you taking the time to count all those measures! I've tried the wrist positioning, but it's just the way my hand is put together, that fingering doesn't seem to work for me. hreichgott, funny my instructor and I didn't even think about placing the thumb on E nat. but it looks promising. I've got this beautiful piece down pat and this is the final hurdle.

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#2216677 - 01/18/14 12:28 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
Liszt_BG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 342
Loc: Bulgaria
Alternative to the written fingering:
(starting from the B-flat of the 20 note group)
4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1-3-1-3-2-3-1-4-1-2-5-4-3.
or
4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1-3-1-3-2-3-2-3-1-2-5-4-3.

(depending on what comes next, which I cannot recall right now, last three notes could of course be 4-3-2 too)

I'd really rather recommend the published fingering though.

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#2216975 - 01/19/14 02:45 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
phantomFive Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 3035
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Civitas
I've tried the wrist positioning, but it's just the way my hand is put together, that fingering doesn't seem to work for me.

Your hand looks like a ninja turtle hand?
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#2217673 - 01/20/14 01:49 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5446
Loc: Philadelphia
Originally Posted By: Civitas
I'm having a terribly frustrating time with the fingering for the 20 note run in measure 74 (specifically, the four notes in the little "jog" where it goes - F - Gflat - Enat - F -). I've practiced it over and over and cannot find a good way to play it. I keep stumbling over my fingers using the suggested 1-4-2-3. I'd be grateful if someone could (mercifully) provide some advice that works for you.

Regards,

Mark

What about the little "jog" gives you trouble? This is a very prominent technique in Mozart (and I'm sure, others; just happens to be where I encounter it most often). Which finger would you say "screws up" the most?
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#2217754 - 01/20/14 04:35 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6449
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I have no problems with 1-4-2-3, but not all hands are the same. What exactly do you think is the problem for you with that fingering?
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Music is my best friend.
“Haters don't really hate you. They hate themselves because you are a reflection of what they wish to be.” ― Yaira N


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#2219351 - 01/23/14 09:38 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
Civitas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 10
Playing the 1-4 is okay, it's the transitioning from the 4 to the 2 and then the 3 that messes me up. This makes the jump to the B nat. with the thumb tricky.

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#2219353 - 01/23/14 09:41 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
Civitas Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 10
A ninja turtle phantomFive? I'm not sure what that is supposed to look like. I've wanted to karate chop the piano though!

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#2219762 - 01/23/14 11:15 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
phantomFive Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 3035
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Civitas
A ninja turtle phantomFive? I'm not sure what that is supposed to look like. I've wanted to karate chop the piano though!

Ninja turtles only have two fingers and a thumb.

Seriously, you should be able to get this. When you play that part, your thumb will likely end up underneath your hand. It's a weird position, but you'll get used to it.

To get used to it: play the F with your thumb, then slowly, without moving your thumb, play the G-flat with your fourth finger. Then slowly play the F with your thumb again, back and fourth until it feels like a natural hand position.

Once you are used to it, try playing it in with the rest of the line.
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#2219764 - 01/23/14 11:16 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
phantomFive Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 3035
Loc: California
btw if you can't touch the tip of your fourth finger and the tip of your thumb together, you should do some stretches before playing this to increase your flexibility.
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#2219809 - 01/24/14 01:08 AM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
phantomFive Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/14
Posts: 3035
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Civitas
Playing the 1-4 is okay, it's the transitioning from the 4 to the 2 and then the 3 that messes me up. This makes the jump to the B nat. with the thumb tricky.

While you are playing the 2 and the 3, simultaneously move your thumb to the B nat so it's there when it's time.
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#2221047 - 01/26/14 06:38 PM Re: Chopin Nocturne Op 9 No 1 Fingering [Re: Civitas]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6449
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I don't know... Maybe you can practice that fingering again and again also when you are not at the piano (for example at the bus stop, tapping on the desk etc.)
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Music is my best friend.
“Haters don't really hate you. They hate themselves because you are a reflection of what they wish to be.” ― Yaira N


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