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#221767 - 03/05/08 08:06 PM upgrade to small grand (help)
tf132931 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: liverpool,england
Hi,My current piano is a Hyundai upright which i have had for about ten years,it has served me well but i have decided to pass it on to a family member.I had made up my mind to go for a Yamaha or Kawai(small grand)but while looking i have seen a Perzina 150cm which i like very much and a Carlmann 152cm which i thought was very good for the price,i would welcome any thoughts on which to choose and any feedback on Perzina and Carlmann grands,i know Perzina uprights seem well thought of but i have not read anything about their grands.Mant thanks.

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#221768 - 03/05/08 11:28 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
Most people would recommend a 52" upright over any grand shorter than 160cm.
That said, however, the most popular small grand around PW forums would have to be the Estonia 168.
I have not played any of the Estonia pianos yet, but everyone seems to agree that they are ALOT of piano for the money.
Used Estonia 168's are very inexpensive.

Why are you so determined to get an Asian piano?
Have you tried any of the entry-level European brands?

#221769 - 03/06/08 04:03 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
tf132931 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: liverpool,england
Hi,today i tried a used Opus gp157,the dealer told me it was produced by Young Chang in the 1990s,does anyone know if this is correct and what opinions are out there on this particular brand.Many thanks.

#221770 - 03/06/08 08:26 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
lol I own a Young Chang g157.... about 20 years old, granted, but a cute little piano.
I would switch it up for an Estonia 168 without a second thought. And I haven't even played an Estonia yet. Perhaps that gives you a bit of sense of this brand...?

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#221771 - 03/06/08 08:55 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
Craigen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/05
Posts: 1815
Loc: West Coast
I will take issue with Mr. Kitty and those that tout big uprights over baby grands. IMO the action repetition trumps the perception of "big tone" from 52"ers.
Ten year old Hyundai to go to family member. Do you hate them that much? (sorry couldn't help that).
Never heard of Carlmann, likely a house brand stencil. Also not familiar with the Opus by YC you mention.
Prizina is touted as one of the top Chinese lines. I am underwhelmed with this line, and it frequently is misrepresented at German and priced as such.
I would focus on the Yamaha GC1 or the Kawai GE20 if you can fit it into the budget. Their entry level grands GB1 and GM10 are ok, but not preferred.
Piano Technician, member Piano Technicians Guild.

#221772 - 03/06/08 09:00 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
lol that was dry Craigen ;\)
I know I would trade my Young Clang (sorry...I think I meant Chang) g-157 for a full-sized Bechstein upright ANY day of the week, single-escapement or not!

#221773 - 03/06/08 09:36 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
turandot Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 7439
Loc: torrance, CA

Since you've played the Perzina 150 and some Chinese house stencils, you should give a Wendl & Lung small grand a test drive. It's Chinese as well, but you may like it quite a bit.
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#221774 - 03/06/08 11:02 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
Diane... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 3462
Loc: Western Canada
tf132931, (How do you pronounce your name by the way!)

Upgrade to a small grand!

An upright just looks at a wall.

Where as a small grand is like driving a convertible . . . Indoors! \:D
Jazz/Blues/Rock/Boogie Piano Teacher

#221775 - 03/07/08 04:43 AM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
JohnEB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/20/06
Posts: 754
Loc: Belgium
Hello there, I'd suggest you take a look at a few more small grands, and certainly a Wendl & Lung as mentioned above - I think they're great value for money and I think will give you a fuller sound than a similarly sized Yam or Kawai. But that's just my personal opinion.

If you're going to spend that much on a piano then you should try as many different makes/models as are in your price range.

Have you also tried the Uk piano forums? You may get more response from people in your area:


#221776 - 03/07/08 02:07 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
RDD Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 10
I recently went through a similar process. I upgraded from a 40 yr old Kimball console which I learned on as a child. After being away from the piano for over 30 years, I began taking lessaons again. For me, the action was chief among my reasons for upgrading from the Kimball.

I tried many pianos over several weeks in 2 states, read Larry Fine's book and 2008 supplement, and found good information from the members of this forum. I, too, looked at many quality uprights (new and used) but always prefered the action on a grand. The dealers in my area did not have a good selection of European pianos so I couldn't explore these as fully as I would have liked but my budget was modest. I eventually decided on a new Kawai GM-10K which I purchased for $7000 and I'm very happy with it.

I agree with others above. Take your time and try as many pianos as you can. Whatever you choose must be right for you.

#221777 - 03/07/08 05:06 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
vippo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 292
Loc: Sterzing (Italy)
Of the chinese stencil pianos (although I don't know if they qualify, being designed in Vienna and "only" produced in China), I have tried only Wendl&Lung and found it a very surprising piano for the price.
Proud owner of an August Förster 190 Serial No. 164163

#221778 - 03/07/08 08:14 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
tf132931 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: liverpool,england
Hi,thanks for all your interesting info(and humour)the Hyundai is not bad as a freebie,i like the idea of driving the convertible indoors, i will be looking at more pianos this weekend.Many thanks,Terry.

#221779 - 03/09/08 06:22 PM Re: upgrade to small grand (help)
tf132931 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 28
Loc: liverpool,england
Hi,I tried some more Grands over the weekend,Yamaha A1,very nice to play but not a lot of volume.Yamaha C1,much nicer in every respect,but of course more expensive,Kawai GM10,nice to play,but sounded a little dull compared to the C1.I will try to find a Wendl and Lung to compare with if i can find out who stocks them in my area.TF132931.


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