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#2218542 - 01/21/14 11:34 PM How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
Hello,

How much does it cost to paint a studio piano (say a baldwin 243) a flat/matte/satin black?

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#2218579 - 01/22/14 01:49 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21526
Loc: Oakland
It depends on how well you want it done.
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#2218607 - 01/22/14 05:33 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
PhilipInChina Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 856
Loc: China
Probably also depends where you are. I could get one done in Chengdu for a couple of hundred dollars.
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Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"

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#2218677 - 01/22/14 10:12 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
Thanks, I'm in Los Angeles btw. $200 is reasonable, not sure where I'd go for this though?

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#2218721 - 01/22/14 11:34 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 1061
Loc: Nor California Sacramento area
As BDB said, "It depends on how well you want it done." $200 in LA guarantees you won't like it.
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#2218731 - 01/22/14 11:48 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21526
Loc: Oakland
Maybe he would like it, but few others would!
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#2218742 - 01/22/14 11:58 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
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Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Can you hire a piano mover in LA for $200.00 ?
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of Fine Heirloom Pianos

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#2218743 - 01/22/14 11:59 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: johnbarnesiii
Hello,

How much does it cost to paint a studio piano (say a baldwin 243) a flat/matte/satin black?


May I ask, "Why?"

As finishes, I understand "matte" or "satin," but I don't really understand flat for use on a piano, unless, perhaps, it is meant for, say, use in a theater to hide the piano so that light does not reflect off of the surface.

Anyway, the terms "painted" and the selection of finishes is what piqued my curiosity. I have seen some truly awful paint jobs on pianos that caused me to wonder, "What in the world were they thinking?!?" eek crazy These jobs were not properly "finished." (Or, properly started, methinks...) wink

--Andy


Edited by Cinnamonbear (01/22/14 12:01 PM)
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2218752 - 01/22/14 12:07 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
anrpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 174
Loc: Chicago
One of the very first refinishing jobs I got, lo those many years ago, was a Baldwin grand circa 1930's which had been repainted every time the owner had changed the color of the living room. I found all sorts of ... unique colors as I stripped away the accumulated paint.

As to the OP question. Do you mean to use some type of house paint? lacquer?

For $200 you should plan on going down to the local paint store and buying a gallon and putting it on yourself, but if you are not very careful you will do the following:

1) paint the cabinet shut
2) get paint all over the keys
3) get paint between the keys
4) get paint on the strings
5) get paint on the action
6) ... you get the point

Anyone of the above could pretty much mean the end of the piano for any musical purpose.

It would be helpful if you would elaborate on WHY you want to do such a thing and/or plan on spending a whole lot more money.
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#2218754 - 01/22/14 12:13 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8534
Loc: Georgia, USA
I’ve tried my hand at a little exterior refinishing on pianos… I’d rather be tuning or regulating the action! smile

Refinishing is hard, dirty, dusty work. It is time consuming and tedious work. However, the results can be nice… a big improvement over what you started with. The biggest thing is getting the surface prepped… if there are flaws or blemishes on the finish that is to be refinished, the flaws and blemishes with show up in the refinishing.

Of course, it is nice to have a nice finish on a piano… most folks look at it more than they play it. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2218760 - 01/22/14 12:23 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 10479
Loc: Maryland/DC/No. VA
$200 in China is likely going to cost about $800 or more here.
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Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.

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#2218761 - 01/22/14 12:26 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
If you start off with something like this.






And expect something like this.






Grain filled, satin ebony, hand rubbed like a new piano expect to pay $4,000 to $5,000
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of Fine Heirloom Pianos

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#2218829 - 01/22/14 02:27 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
Thanks. I know there are different kinds of black that vary in price, from hand rubbed, to semi-gloss, to flat or satin. I was thinking something like this: take a natural wood Baldwin upright and make it a nice satin black (see pic). I'm a visual artist too so color is very important to me.

Sorry for not being specific, but hopefully that explains it a little better?

Thanks, I appreciate you guys and your knowledge.


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#2218874 - 01/22/14 03:12 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7435
Loc: Rochester MN
John, please keep in mind that there is a very big difference between "painting" and "refinishing."

A truly fine job, as presented by Rod, is an expensive proposition. Heed his estimate.

Since you are a visual artist, why not create something which pleases you?
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2218876 - 01/22/14 03:13 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Troy 125 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 130
Since you haven't yet bought a piano, if getting that color is very important to you I'd restrict my search to the color you are looking for. Then you could put the money that you would have spent on refinishing into your piano budget. Problem with satin is that I've seen that finish in more grand pianos than uprights, so if a gloss black upright is out of the question, it may take a while to find. Also it seems used satin black finishes tend to get more marked up than gloss.

I've refinished a piano back to its original finish. It is a lot of work and time, and I imagine would cost a lot if hired out and done properly.

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#2218891 - 01/22/14 03:32 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: johnbarnesiii
Thanks. I know there are different kinds of black that vary in price, from hand rubbed, to semi-gloss, to flat or satin. I was thinking something like this: take a natural wood Baldwin upright and make it a nice satin black (see pic). [...]


That could get you a visit from the Oak Police, and most likely "blacklisted" by the "Natural Wood Grain Appreciation Society." eek wink

Seriously, you could not "paint" that natural finish piano and expect it to look like the ebony finish without A LOT of work (an a ton of sanding sealer, and even then...) Or, perhaps you want to see that pronounced grain under an ebony finish?

Obviously, I am still confused by the original question. crazy

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2218914 - 01/22/14 03:54 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: Cinnamonbear]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 541
Loc: Spanish living in UK
When I watch all those "Play Me" videos and the amazing finishes I wish I had one of those pianos at home...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0gzazyaYYQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yS5MhaA2Vo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX5QNYJJ8Dc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWC69SDTQso

... hopefully with all the keys working, that is. Maybe not a proper restoration work... but well, I quite like them!
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2219040 - 01/22/14 06:45 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
Good advice, I agree may be best to find a black one off the bat, so as to forego the whole paint job altogether. Satin black is my fave, but I guess I wouldn't be against any type of black, so long as its not natural wood color (aesthetically not my thing smile

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#2219183 - 01/22/14 10:55 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
The piano in the left photo is open grain oak, the case would need sanded to break the factory glaze but we use glazing filler if we are using a solid color like black. You would need a really big industrial air sander like a Hutchins Hustler to get all the larger areas flattened out in a reasonable amount of time, like before Jimmy Hoffa goes to his high-school reunion.

The reality of refinishing work and costs is going to depend on what EPA regulations the shop you choose has to endure. I would think California would be a nightmare on over-regulation. Equipment costs, material costs are all going up. Paint booth certifications, paint booth filters that cost as much as a mortgage and then there is knowledge of doing the job.

The average studio piano takes about 36 to 40 hours to do right, It is stripped down, masked a couple times, sanded, filled, re-sanded, primed. Satin or Flat black is merciless to get right. You cannot take a break or the individual parts will not match and you do not want to have to change from one can of paint to another in the same session. It is nothing to spend maybe 6 consecutive hours in my booth painting parts. It is also more of a problem child with blushing when humidity rises above 63%.

The other thing is when painting a piano use Lacquer over acrylic enamel. Any enamel based products will not be finger-print proof when dry and will be easily smudged.
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Nashville Piano Rescue
www.NashvillePianoRescue.com
East Nashville
Bowling Green, KY
Scottsville KY.
Chamber of Commerce
Member/Sponsor

Putting inspiration in the hands of area musicians
Through restoration/renovation

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#2219192 - 01/22/14 11:35 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
Thanks for that. Btw, I just came across a piano store online that use Annie Sloan chalk paint to refinish pianos and let me tell you, they look AMAZING!
I'm considering buying one from them but I live in LA and they're in Tempe.

The cool thing is since it's a family biz, the husband is an amazing piano tech so he does all the internal work like tuning, voicing and making sure everything is perfect inside. Then the wife dies all the external work like refinishing and painting.

The pianos look so cool, I just love the satin and diffused / matte look and the colors are great, very tasteful. If I lived closer I'd go check one out but I still may consider buying one and having it shipped to LA, if I can hear some video and get a full rundown of the piano.

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#2219352 - 01/23/14 09:39 AM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: Nash. Piano Rescue]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: Nash. Piano Rescue
The piano in the left photo is open grain oak, the case would need sanded to break the factory glaze but we use glazing filler if we are using a solid color like black. You would need a really big industrial air sander like a Hutchins Hustler to get all the larger areas flattened out in a reasonable amount of time, like before Jimmy Hoffa goes to his high-school reunion.

The reality of refinishing work and costs is going to depend on what EPA regulations the shop you choose has to endure. I would think California would be a nightmare on over-regulation. Equipment costs, material costs are all going up. Paint booth certifications, paint booth filters that cost as much as a mortgage and then there is knowledge of doing the job.

The average studio piano takes about 36 to 40 hours to do right, It is stripped down, masked a couple times, sanded, filled, re-sanded, primed. Satin or Flat black is merciless to get right. You cannot take a break or the individual parts will not match and you do not want to have to change from one can of paint to another in the same session. It is nothing to spend maybe 6 consecutive hours in my booth painting parts. It is also more of a problem child with blushing when humidity rises above 63%.

The other thing is when painting a piano use Lacquer over acrylic enamel. Any enamel based products will not be finger-print proof when dry and will be easily smudged.


This post ^^^ is why I like Piano World so much! laugh They say "a picture is worth a thousand words," and, truly, the pictures that Rod Verhnjak shared earlier are beautiful.

Nash. painted a thousand pictures with 250 words. *That*, also, is true art! thumb

--Andy
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2219437 - 01/23/14 12:05 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: Nash. Piano Rescue]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
[quote=Nash. The average studio piano takes about 36 to 40 hours to do right, It is stripped down, masked a couple times, sanded, filled, re-sanded, primed. Satin or Flat black is merciless to get right. [/quote]

Wow I am surprised you can refinish a studio piano in satin ebony in 40 hours.


Take apart the piano including hardware 4 hours
Strip off the old lacquer 8 hours
Sand the cabinet and case parts repair imperfections 8 hours
Stain the cabinet black 2 hours
Mask of the piano 1 hour
Spray 1 coat of sanding sealer including set up 2 hours
Grain fill everything 4 hours
Spray 4 coats of black lacquer on everything 1 hour
Flat sand everything 8 hours
Spray 4 more coats of black lacquer 1 hour
Light sand everything 4 hour
Spray 2 coats of clear lacquer 1 hour
Rub out the cabinet to a satin finish 6-8 hours
Polish all the hardware 4 hours
Assemble everything 4 hours
This all includes the bench
Excludes any gun cleaning purchasing of supplies or issues with products.

So we have a total of 60 hours and I bet it really is a bit more than that. Now these are billable hours but I pay my full time finisher probably a full 80 hours because turn around time is 2 weeks.

Now we don't use catalyzed lacquers or polyester sealers to speed up the process. We use traditional materials so it can all be done over again in the future.

_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#2219447 - 01/23/14 12:34 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 544
Loc: Germany
DIY:

1. go to the bricoleurs shop 10 min
2. buy a wide brush 1 min
3. buy sand paper 80 and 300 2 min
4. buy a blak matte color 1 min
5. pay 20 min
6. go home 10 min
7. take the piano off of the wall 1 min
8. Lay around the piano some
old newspapers 2 min
9. sand it w. 80 grain 45 min
10. sand it w. 300 grain 30 min
11. brush the piano matte black 120 min
12. summation: 232 min
13. wait until the bad smell has
disappeared
14. spend your neighbours a grill party w. beer to inaugurate your totally new satin matte black nicely looking piano

optical version for optical artists-only...



Edited by BerndAB (01/23/14 12:35 PM)
_________________________
Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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#2219473 - 01/23/14 01:17 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Rod Verhnjak Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 3659
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
DIY

Go to your hardware store 10 min
Purchase 2 spray cans of flat black lacquer $25.00
Tape off your hinges and pedals 15 min
Then spray the cabinet 20 min
Done

I've seen this done many times.
_________________________
Verhnjak Pianos
Specializing in the Restoration, Refinishing & Maintenance
of Fine Heirloom Pianos

Exclusive Dealer For Charles R. Walter Pianos
www.pianoman.ca
Verhnjak Pianos Facebook


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#2219484 - 01/23/14 01:36 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
DIY:

To Walmart - 10 min.
Stand in line at checkout - 30 min.
2 cans flat black spray paint - $5.50 sale price on shelf label, rings up $7 each.
Check-out manager floor-walk price check - 20 min.
Pay - $14 plus tax.
To Home - 10 min.
Close fall board - 1 sec.
Spray - 20 min.

Time is money. Should have gone to the hardware store.
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2219488 - 01/23/14 01:48 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
johnbarnesiii Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 175
I'm realizing that the type of finish I'm looking for is the chalk paint style as seen here:
http://thevintagepianoshop.com/#pianos

Trying to find a similar place in LA that does this, any leads please let me know, thx!

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#2219509 - 01/23/14 02:47 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: johnbarnesiii]
Cinnamonbear Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 3904
Loc: Rockford, IL
Originally Posted By: johnbarnesiii
I'm realizing that the type of finish I'm looking for is the chalk paint style as seen here:
http://thevintagepianoshop.com/#pianos

Trying to find a similar place in LA that does this, any leads please let me know, thx!


A picture is worth a thousand words! thumb
_________________________
I may not be fast,
but at least I'm slow.

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#2219562 - 01/23/14 03:57 PM Re: How much to paint a studio piano flat/satin black [Re: Rod Verhnjak]
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 544
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Rod Verhnjak
DIY

Go to your hardware store 10 min
Purchase 2 spray cans of flat black lacquer $25.00
Tape off your hinges and pedals 15 min
Then spray the cabinet 20 min
Done

I've seen this done many times.


Dear Rod,

I declare you Winner! grin

...no, I assume it were your clients who partially lost fine pianos by this "methods"... .

But maybe they served as Whiskey bar cabinets or something like this..

Ohh tempora ohh mores.. (latin lamentation). There is no respect for old pianos in the world.
_________________________
Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain

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