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#2241439 - 03/04/14 07:10 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Digitalguy]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Digitalguy
Try restarting UVI, it generally works after one or 2 attempts. But it's annoying as it happens quite often (at least on a pc...)

Managed to get it working: 48k @ 256 samples (although ASIO4ALL has a significantly different idea about the number of samples involved). The latency is still more than I'd like, and unless I can get it faster on the Surface, it'll still be Pianoteq live for me. I may have to consign the Ravenscroft to studio use only, and buy one of those blasted dongles for my iMac.

Sounds good, kind of like a solid workhorse piano... sorry, how much did you say the real Ravenscroft costs? wink
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241440 - 03/04/14 07:20 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Quick update. For some reason, I'm now able to get 64 samples at 96k. No more warbling, thank goodness. Will be able to test it properly, now.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241442 - 03/04/14 07:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: voxpops]
Digitalguy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/04/14
Posts: 430
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: voxpops

Managed to get it working: 48k @ 256 samples (although ASIO4ALL has a significantly different idea about the number of samples involved). The latency is still more than I'd like, and unless I can get it faster on the Surface, it'll still be Pianoteq live for me. I may have to consign the Ravenscroft to studio use only, and buy one of those blasted dongles for my iMac.


If you want to reduce latency on a surface pro 1 you need an external audio interface. I even tried an atom tablet and it had a very strong latency with asio4all and the internal sound, but is perfect with an audio interface on some pianos, like vintage D or Ivory II... (on others the problem is not really latency but lack of CPU power)
_________________________
Roland FP-4F, Korg Kross 61, iRig Keys Pro, Focal Spirit Pro, Shure SRH240A, RME Babyface, M-Track Plus, Roland DuoCapture, iPad Air, iLoud, Ivory II ACD, Galaxy Vintage D, Galaxy Steinway, TrueKeys American, VILabs Ravenscroft, Kawai-Ex Pro, The Grand 2, SampleTekk Black, Addictive Keys, Ezkeys

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#2241444 - 03/04/14 07:32 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
Re latency, I usually set this directly on Asio4all's own control panel when using galaxy D. So I'm doing the same with Ravenscroft in UVI but whether I set Asio4all to min (64 samples) or max (2048) there's no audible change in latency. It sounds just about ok and middling - maybe the 512 default that UVI initially launched in.

Is there a way to set the latency in UVI?

edit: No problem with UVI's latency settings when hosted in Cubase using ASIO4all - I suppose because Cubase is then in charge, but UVI as a standalone doesn't seem comfortable in the company of ASIO4all. Maybe I've overlooked something....bedtime...


Edited by dire tonic (03/04/14 07:58 PM)

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#2241456 - 03/04/14 07:56 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Michael Wright]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Mta88
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Mta88
Anyone knows if Kawai released a custom velocity curve for this? or will be releasing one in the future for the VPC1?
I'm just curious.
I do not believe they have as of yet.

Would be so awesome if they do tho.
They could well do so at some point, as well as mac software for the editor. I am sure James will be along to comment.


A Mac version of the VPC Editor will be available soon, however I'm afraid I cannot comment on additional touch curves that may be in development.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2241458 - 03/04/14 07:58 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Kawai James]
Michael Wright Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/14
Posts: 40
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Mta88
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Mta88
Anyone knows if Kawai released a custom velocity curve for this? or will be releasing one in the future for the VPC1?
I'm just curious.
I do not believe they have as of yet.

Would be so awesome if they do tho.
They could well do so at some point, as well as mac software for the editor. I am sure James will be along to comment.


A Mac version of the VPC Editor will be available soon, however I'm afraid I cannot comment on additional touch curves that may be in development.

Cheers,
James
x

Cool! Thanks James!
Mike
_________________________
http://www.michaelwwright.com/home.html

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#2241463 - 03/04/14 08:07 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Digitalguy]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Digitalguy
If you want to reduce latency on a surface pro 1 you need an external audio interface. I even tried an atom tablet and it had a very strong latency with asio4all and the internal sound, but is perfect with an audio interface on some pianos, like vintage D or Ivory II... (on others the problem is not really latency but lack of CPU power)

While I had serious problems with latency on one of the new Bay Trail Atoms, I have had none using Pianoteq, VB3 and Arturia Analog Lab with the Surface Pro, using all internal software/hardware. It seems quite capable of delivering the goods via ASIO4ALL. That's why I've been happy using it live with minimal additional add-ons.

The latency/ASIO problems I experienced with UVI a couple of hours ago seemed to be related to the app rather than the hardware. I have no idea why it's now working - or whether it will continue to work. I'm going to try it in Cantabile Lite next, and see what difference that makes - if any.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241464 - 03/04/14 08:11 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
I have the exact same problems you guys have with UVI workstation - that weird warbly garbled distortion over ASIO playback if you don't get the settings just perfect. Glad to hear I'm not the only one, and that my system isn't messed up. All my other software (Kontakt etc.) works perfectly, and only UVI seems to have issues with ASIO. It usually takes me several minutes of fiddling with ASIO settings and restarting the program multiple times before I can get it to work correctly.

It's VERY annoying, and it should be looked into/fixed.


Edited by chicolom (03/04/14 09:19 PM)
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2241469 - 03/04/14 08:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 241
Loc: buffalo
hey gang,
can anyone please tell me why we only extract Ravenscroft275.part01.rar?
I mean we download 4 .rar files.
I don't understand.

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#2241470 - 03/04/14 08:25 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
hey gang,
can anyone please tell me why we only extract Ravenscroft275.part01.rar?
I mean we download 4 .rar files.
I don't understand.

The first part references all the other parts, and so when you extract part 1 it joins the other parts to it.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241475 - 03/04/14 08:34 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Edited: because I was getting tired and grumpy when I wrote it!

My main issues have now been resolved - please see my post below.


Edited by voxpops (03/04/14 11:51 PM)
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241477 - 03/04/14 08:40 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: voxpops]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 241
Loc: buffalo
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
hey gang,
can anyone please tell me why we only extract Ravenscroft275.part01.rar?
I mean we download 4 .rar files.
I don't understand.

The first part references all the other parts, and so when you extract part 1 it joins the other parts to it.


wow!!
thank you so much mister!!

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#2241482 - 03/04/14 08:43 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: voxpops]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1098
Loc: Massachusetts
Thanks for all the Surface Pro (1) information. I also have that device and curious to see how it performs with this app.

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#2241502 - 03/04/14 09:15 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 512
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
hey gang,
can anyone please tell me why we only extract Ravenscroft275.part01.rar?
I mean we download 4 .rar files.
I don't understand.


It will chain to the other parts, ASSUMING they have all finished downloading,,,
BTW, there don't seem to be any published checksums, so hopefully WinRAR detects corrupt files.

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#2241503 - 03/04/14 09:17 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: R_B]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 241
Loc: buffalo
Originally Posted By: R_B
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
hey gang,
can anyone please tell me why we only extract Ravenscroft275.part01.rar?
I mean we download 4 .rar files.
I don't understand.


It will chain to the other parts, ASSUMING they have all finished downloading,,,
BTW, there don't seem to be any published checksums, so hopefully WinRAR detects corrupt files.


thank you very much R_B.

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#2241511 - 03/04/14 09:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Pathbreaker]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Pathbreaker
Thanks for all the Surface Pro (1) information. I also have that device and curious to see how it performs with this app.

You're welcome. I'll be interested to read how you get on.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241522 - 03/04/14 09:32 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
humax Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 14
The first impression of Ravencroft is quite not bad:
- Yes, it's far considerably better than TK in terms of quality of sound(I grade TK less than Alicia's Keys, Addictive Keys, MyPiano. The main drawback of TK is their sound whereas their playability is OK pretty much)
- Thank you very much for making good 4th and 5th octaves.(in many pianos such as TK, Production Grand, it sucks for some reason.)
- Custom tuning is also very important feature.
- As usual a good sound can be revealed just with use of some decent third party reverb.
- The palyability (feeling, touch) is perfect.
- As many others I experience an issue with ASIO interface too (I believe that is rather an issue in UVI than in the library itself)
Overall mark is GOOD. (So I can say Ravencroft has definitely beaten my expectations)

PS. But Matt Matt Stedeford's Ebony Grand is still the best for me anyway.


Edited by humax (03/04/14 09:33 PM)

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#2241575 - 03/04/14 11:30 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
AZ_Astro Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 463
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
I have installed everything... but no joy yet.

Since I have an iLok for Ivory II the process of registering the VILabs-Ravenscroft license at iLok, logging in to iLok, and copying/dragging the license to my iLok key went fine. When I run the iLok License Manager, I can see the license on my key.

I already had UVI Workstation and that is working fine with the Kawai EX PRO sampled piano.

And the unpacking process of the Ravenscroft data files went fine as well. So now I have the 35 GB Ravenscroft275.ufs file sitting there waiting.

When I start UVI workstation, browse/navigate and double-click on the .ufs file, however, I am getting an error ("no valid authorization found") even though I have transferred the license to my iLok key.

I'll reboot and test again tomorrow. I don't have time to troubleshoot any more today.

[EDIT: This issue was fixed by loading a newer version of UVI workstation. I had an old version on my machine that was not compatible. ]


Edited by AZ_Astro (03/06/14 07:07 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2241578 - 03/04/14 11:40 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
OK, so Lance from VI Labs was kind enough to PM me and offer support for the issues I was having. Thank you, Lance.

Basically, from my own trial and error, I don't believe that ASIO4ALL is suitable for the UVI workstation. I connected to a hardware device (Alesis) and all the ASIO related issues were solved. I had been hoping to run live in the same way I do with Pianoteq - i.e. just the Surface Pro with ASIO4ALL, a USB cable from the controller, and an audio cable; but it seems like the only stable way to do it with UVI is to use an interface with its own drivers. With ASIO4ALL I was getting false readings and very inconsistent performance. I think the message here is to use a USB audio interface that you know is reliable, and go from there.

As to the Ravenscroft itself, I now need to spend some unstressed time with it, so I can evaluate it fairly. But I can say that from the few moments I've had since I changed over to the Alesis interface, it seems to play well.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241593 - 03/05/14 12:02 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: voxpops]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: voxpops
OK, so Lance from VI Labs was kind enough to PM me and offer support for the issues I was having. Thank you, Lance.

Basically, from my own trial and error, I don't believe that ASIO4ALL is suitable for the UVI workstation.

With ASIO4ALL I was getting false readings and very inconsistent performance. I think the message here is to use a USB audio interface that you know is reliable, and go from there.


Interesting.

I have a desktop computer with an internal soundcard with dedicated ASIO drivers and UVI still seems to have a lot of problems with it though (while my other programs work fine with it).

So I still say UVI needs some work done on it's ASIO.
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2241598 - 03/05/14 12:21 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3083
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: chicolom
I have a desktop computer with an internal soundcard with dedicated ASIO drivers and UVI still seems to have a lot of problems with it though (while my other programs work fine with it).

So I still say UVI needs some work done on it's ASIO.


You may well be right. I wonder how much more solid it would be if Ravenscroft was running in its own dedicated standalone app. I know nothing about these things, but can only go on my experience with other software, such as PT.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2241624 - 03/05/14 12:03 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1896
Loc: Pennsylvania
Installed it this morning.

No problems. Smooth as silk.

I have been playing with it for about an hour.

Initial impression ...

It is my best stand-alone software piano sound.

The most appreciated quality that I have found is that it has a gentleness to it.

I play a lot of that type of music so it appeals to me.

I did turn the TONE button to -4 to take a little of the "edge" off of the key strike.

No other modifications were made, or needed in my opinion.

Having said all of the above ...

It still can sound like someone else is playing the piano somewhere other than where I am sitting. My solution is the same as all my other software piano sounds ... I blend in my ES7 concert grand via my mixer.

In my opinion, all of these software piano sounds suffer from that same issue.

It is difficult to describe that phenomenon.

Here is how I describe it ...

The sound that comes from the software sounds great if you are just listening to it from your couch with your eyes closed. However, if you are pushing keys on a piano keyboard you expect a different sound than the one that you hear when sitting on your couch.

I can bring that sound into the mix by adding my ES7 concert grand to the Ravenscroft275 sound.

The two together ... perfect.

The Ravenscroft275 by itself and me sitting on the couch with my eyes closed ... great.

The Ravenscroft275 by itself with me pushing keys on my ES7 keyboard ... less than authentic.

At this point, however, it is my best software sound.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2241629 - 03/05/14 12:19 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1379
Loc: uk south
First impressions here – very favourable.

Definitely some odd behaviour going on between the stand-alone UVI and ASIO4all but using a host could be a happy workaround. Cubase, for example, will run UVI at the best latency without a problem – although loading all of Ravenscroft’s sample sets will require a bigger buffer. Without a host, UVI is probably buffering 512 samples using A4all - not bad latency but not great. What's weird is that it doesn't appear to be adjustable, no matter what you do in A4all.

AFAICT the piano is smoothly consistent across the chromatic and dynamic range enabling powerful crescendos and sweet pianissimos, smoother I’d say than vintage D. Nicely playable, as is the D of course. I can’t claim to have fully got to grips with the sound but it has a pleasing tone, lively yet sensitive. Running an A/B between the R and the D, it’s clear they’re very different from each other but I like them both. I find the R’s una corda samples to be far more usable than the D’s which always sounded to me as though not quite belonging to the same piano and presenting somehow on a different sound-stage. R’s are well integrated. There’s something a tad more rounded about the D sound but I’ve a hunch that R’s samples will eq into a similar warmth. If persistent immersion is any guide, I’ve been fiddling with it for the last couple of hours trying to sort out a bit of Chopin without any loss of enthusiasm or sense of a mismatch between style and sound. Whichever records better or flatters me most (excuse my language) might determine which gets the greater use but at the moment I’m pleased to have them both and expect to be playing with the R a lot.

disclaimer: it's highly possible that I am completely cloth-eared. Don't buy on my recommendation!


Edited by dire tonic (03/05/14 12:21 PM)

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#2241633 - 03/05/14 12:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: dmd]
HisKidd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: AL/USA
I'm guessing here dmd, you're using a MAC computer?

_________________________
Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
______________________________________________
Kawai MP6 stage piano
DCM CX-17 Monitors
Sennheiser HD 205, DJ series, headset

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#2241638 - 03/05/14 12:35 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1896
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: HisKidd
I'm guessing here dmd, you using a MAC computer?



Sorry, no cigar !

Dell 8300 i7 3.40GHz PC.
8 GB Ram.
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2241657 - 03/05/14 01:04 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: dmd]
HisKidd Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/31/11
Posts: 198
Loc: AL/USA
dmd…

Any guess why your download, setup, and playing went so smoothly, and several others were problematic?

Thanks!
_________________________
Keyboards are the best therapy I know of...
______________________________________________
Kawai MP6 stage piano
DCM CX-17 Monitors
Sennheiser HD 205, DJ series, headset

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#2241661 - 03/05/14 01:06 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: dmd]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1098
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: HisKidd
I'm guessing here dmd, you using a MAC computer?



Sorry, no cigar !

Dell 8300 i7 3.40GHz PC.
8 GB Ram.




Which version of Windows are you running?

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#2241663 - 03/05/14 01:12 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Pathbreaker]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1896
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Pathbreaker
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: HisKidd
I'm guessing here dmd, you using a MAC computer?



Sorry, no cigar !

Dell 8300 i7 3.40GHz PC.
8 GB Ram.




Which version of Windows are you running?


Windows 7 with Service Pack 1
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2241666 - 03/05/14 01:15 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1098
Loc: Massachusetts
Anyone with a Surface will be running Windows 8.1 so I'm curious if there will be any compatibility differences.

I have 8.1 on both my Surface Pro and laptop but I could always roll the laptop back to Windows 7 (not likely to happen but a possibility).

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#2241668 - 03/05/14 01:19 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
paolopiano69 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Genoa , Italy
my first impression is good, though perhaps I was expecting something better than the Ameican D model. However, it is a great product

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