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#2220970 - 01/26/14 10:20 AM Chopin editions - which are best?
Eric NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 18
I imagine this is probably a big, complicated topic... but are there any editions of Chopin which are generally accepted as best/better?

I've got the music for some of Chopin's works (mostly the Schirmer editions), but not all. I got them more than 40 years ago, and maybe there are better recent editions?

Also, I've recently discovered the IMSLP library, which has lots of free PDFs of editions that are out of copyright. Are any of these earlier editions generally well regarded?

Thanks.

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#2220989 - 01/26/14 02:44 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1303
When I was little and started the Waltzes, my teacher had me get the Henle edition, which I still have, 30 years later.

I topped off my library with a Henle edition of the Mazurkas, but ultimately bought the Wiener edition for the Nocturnes, and Wiener again for the preludes.

I THINK that's all I have in Chopin.

I must generally like them equally because I don't have a ready opinion as to which is better other than to say that I've found both to be good quality, easy to read. As for their accuracy, I admit I didn't look too far into it because I've come to assume that, in large part, Henle and Wiener are generally good at what they do.

Perhaps someone else will have more detailed opinions that would suss out which of Henle or Wiener are better for Chopin.

I know there is a significant group of people who prefer Paderewski for anything Chopin, but I don't have anything Paderewski to compare it against.
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2220993 - 01/26/14 02:57 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1092
Loc: western MA, USA
IMSLP has a lot of Paderewski editions but they aren't yet public domain here in the US. Dover sells inexpensive printings of the Paderewski editions. (That's the edition of Preludes and Etudes I have)
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Sometimes a bagatelle is just a bagatelle. Beethoven Op. 33
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
Loving Fauré/Barcarolles and Ravel/Tombeau de Couperin
Always a fan of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

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#2221019 - 01/26/14 06:02 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Miguel Rey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 340
I picked up a cheap copy of Paderewski nocturnes and it's pretty cheap print. Try Jan Ekier Urtext edition. Not cheap but excellent print quality and editing

Jan Ekier (born August 29, 1913) is a Polish pianist and composer known for his authoritative edition of Chopin's music for the Polish National Edition. He was born in Kraków, Poland. He was awarded the International Frédéric Chopin Piano Competition's 8th prize in 1937.[1] On April 17, 2000 Ekier was awarded the Commander's Cross with Star of the Order of Polonia Restituta and on October 21, 2010 he received the Order of the White Eagle.[2] He turned 100 in August 2013.[3]
_________________________
Bechstein B c1905


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#2221026 - 01/26/14 06:13 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
Come to think of it, I'm surprised there wasn't a thread here last year to celebrate Ekier's 100th birthday.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2221036 - 01/26/14 06:27 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6109
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I have the Paderewski edition (the original one, not the Dover edition).
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2221089 - 01/26/14 07:44 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 558
Henle looks the best by far. They hold up ok, not great if your going to be carting your books around everyday.

Paderewski holds up very well, but they don't look nearly as good as the Henle. I compared a few collections side by side, and the Henle looked much better in every case. Also, the Paderewskis tend to not stay open.

The Alfred Masterworks look pretty good, and hold up very well. They don't look quite as nice as the Henle, but IMHO they're a close second. They're not as scholarly as the Henles.

I have the Nocturne/Polonaises in Dover ed. I think they're ok. I'm not sure if they're printed from identical plates as the Paderewski, I've never done a side by side comparison. Maybe some here can say...
_________________________
"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#2221117 - 01/26/14 08:24 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Miguel Rey]
TwoSnowflakes Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 1303
Originally Posted By: Miguel Rey
I picked up a cheap copy of Paderewski nocturnes and it's pretty cheap print. Try Jan Ekier Urtext edition. Not cheap but excellent print quality and editing

Jan Ekier (born August 29, 1913) is a Polish pianist and composer known for his authoritative edition of Chopin's music for the Polish National Edition. He was born in Kraków, Poland. He was awarded the International Frédéric Chopin Piano Competition's 8th prize in 1937.[1] On April 17, 2000 Ekier was awarded the Commander's Cross with Star of the Order of Polonia Restituta and on October 21, 2010 he received the Order of the White Eagle.[2] He turned 100 in August 2013.[3]


This is my nocturne edition.

I was looking it up for another thread, so here's the catalog entry:

http://www.wiener-urtext.com/katalog_anz...p;submit=search
_________________________
Currently:
Bach, French Suites, No. 3 BWV 814
Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2221129 - 01/26/14 08:51 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Bobadohshe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 1
Many teachers I've talked to recommend the Paderewski editions, but one teacher I really admire is a staunch supporter of the Mikuli edited Schirmer editions. (Schirmer has 2 editions of Chopin - the Joseffy and the Mikuli). Since Carl Mikuli was a student of Chopin, it stands to reason that these editions would be of value.

I actually have some Paderewskis and some Mikulis.

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#2221156 - 01/26/14 09:34 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6109
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I also have the Dover collection, which is based on the Mikuli edition.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2221161 - 01/26/14 09:43 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
I'll cast my vote for the Henle.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2221166 - 01/26/14 09:58 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: ChopinAddict]
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/12
Posts: 558
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I also have the Dover collection, which is based on the Mikuli edition.


Dover also has editions based on the Paderewski.

The Alfreds masterworks that I have are based on Mikuli.
_________________________
"Most pianists are poor musicians, they dissect music into bits-and-pieces, like a roast chicken" -Debussy

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#2221167 - 01/26/14 10:01 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: DanS]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6109
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: DanS
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I also have the Dover collection, which is based on the Mikuli edition.


Dover also has editions based on the Paderewski.

The Alfreds masterworks that I have are based on Mikuli.


Mine was actually my very first Chopin book and it is a collection of his "masterpieces" (just one volume). It has a sentimental value too for me. smile I now though usually use the Paderewski edition (I have 14 volumes).
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2221168 - 01/26/14 10:01 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7648
Loc: New York City
I used to use some Paderewskis, but now I have the complete piano works of Chopin (I think!) in Henle - 17 volumes.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2221173 - 01/26/14 10:17 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6109
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Oh, my collection is not "complete". I bought 13 volumes on eBay for just 5 dollars, and the 14th volume at a book sale for 12 dollars, but there are a couple more volumes I will buy one day.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#2221196 - 01/26/14 11:32 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: DanS]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7892
Originally Posted By: DanS
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I also have the Dover collection, which is based on the Mikuli edition.


Dover also has editions based on the Paderewski.



The way I understand it is that Dover did have some Chopin editions based on the Paderewski, but then had to change their source to reprint from some other edition else because of copyright issues, at least in the US.

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#2222886 - 01/29/14 11:51 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 396
Loc: New York City!
I tend to favor Henle or Wiener editions, but I am not adamant about it - the valuable points for me are the editors notes on contradictions between first editions versus original manuscripts (when they still exist). Cross referencing these sources helps me arrive at a reasoned (or intuitive) decision to resolve controversies about notes or ornaments in question.

If I am investing quality time in remastering a Chopin Ballade or Beethoven Sonata, I reference at least two editions, if not more. I don't mind spending the money because it is important to me, and $30 for another edition is no big deal.

A cramped and jumbled late 19th century printing can waste my time by forcing me to squint and get a headache merely to decipher the crudely printed notes, so I always favor a clean and spacious printing. Sometimes I photocopy the music and print it so that I have a 'working copy' that I feel free to scribble up with all manner of fingerings, notating chord progressions, structural highlights, my random ideas, circling this, pointing an arrow to that, and so forth - a kind of rough draft before zeroing in a more final product.

I am interested in picking up useful ideas about fingering from the editions of Rafael Joseffy, Arthur Friedheim, Alfred Cortot, and others, but I regard their additional dynamic and phrase markings with skepticism (but not disrespect) rather than take them at face value as I did as a teenager. Like a prudent juror I want to weigh all available evidence.
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#2222921 - 01/30/14 02:37 AM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
ScriabinAddict Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 335
Paderewski, Mikuli (I think Dover and Schirmer have some reprints available), and some of the Cortot are nice (don't find much use in many of his exercises though)

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#2222954 - 01/30/14 05:49 AM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
joe80 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1236
Chopin is a complicated subject, not least because different versions of his works were published in different countries, and sometimes these versions were sanctioned by Chopin, other times they were edited unscupulously by the publishing house.

The new Peters edition makes an attempt to put that right, but I'm not entirely sure how it does it. The Jan Ekier edition does receive some high praise, but some people criticize it for being inaccurate in places, and making editorial decisions that are not listed as such, or placing alternative versions in the main score etc. I don't know, I'm no scholar of editing.

Likewise, the Paderewski edition is a useful performace edition, but bear in mind that it is Paderewski's opinion on Chopin, if you like. I don't think there's anything wrong with that per se, but it isn't regarded as the ultimate in urtext editing these days. It's still pretty much an indespensible guide for many pianists.

The Miluki edition is actually very popular because Miluki knew Chopin, and Chopin was said to have given his blessing to Miluki's work, in some cases Chopin proof-read the edited scores. Whether Chopin would give his blessing to the entire edition we can't be sure. I think it's important to use an edition that Chopin knew, as well as looking into other more 'urtext' editions.

At the end of the day, as a performer you have the ultimate choice of which version you play, which uncertain accidental you go for, which phrasing you choose. The pedaling in the Miluki edition is very good and very much of it's time. In today's world, people tend to go for legato pedaling as a rule, but not so in Miluki's edition, but then todays pianos damp more effectively and for that reason have less 'reverb' around the tone. The question of how you play on an individual piano is as important as which edition you use - in fact it could be more important. The edition will give you a guide as to what you might want to try to achieve, but the piano and hall will dictate what you actually do.

So, Paderewski, Miluki, Ekier, Peters? How about that for a selection? If I had to buy a complete edition of Chopin tomorrow, I'd probably buy Miluki and then refer to the others in a library.

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#2223194 - 01/30/14 02:17 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Miguel Rey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 340
So, Paderewski, Miluki, Ekier, Peters? How about that for a selection? If I had to buy a complete edition of Chopin tomorrow, I'd probably buy Miluki and then refer to the others in a library.


Agreed as to the selection but would opt for the one with best print quality with is why I chose Ekier
_________________________
Bechstein B c1905


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#2223224 - 01/30/14 03:29 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18131
Loc: Victoria, BC
It's Mikuli, not Miluki!
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2223227 - 01/30/14 03:36 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: BruceD]
JoelW Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 4826
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: BruceD
It's Mikuli, not Miluki!



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#2223283 - 01/30/14 06:54 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21660
Loc: Oakland
The Mikuli complete edition is long out of print. I have the chamber music, but try to find it now!
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2224596 - 02/02/14 12:01 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Eric NYC Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/13/13
Posts: 18
Thanks to you all for your suggestions and comments.

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#2225767 - 02/04/14 12:57 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Jonathan Baker]
Serge Marinkovic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/11/09
Posts: 341
Loc: United States
I agree with Wiener. Easy to read and stay open and are well edited. The fingering for the Chopin Etudes edition is exceptional.
_________________________
Serge P. Marinkovic, MD


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#2225823 - 02/04/14 03:22 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3553
Recently I played op28 no6 so I compared a few editions

The Pleyel edition has a g# instead of a# somewhere so I dumped that one immediately...

Schirmler was pretty good but has incorrect pedalings, introduced pp and a sostenuto, and ppp at the end which unusual, I guess it's not Chopin's. I used this until I found the first french edition.

Then there is a Berlin: Bote & Bock 1880 edition. pedaling is better than Schirmler. But again ppp at end, and they add 'dimin', 'sostenuto' , psf and more fancy dynamics. Also weird fingerings. Don't use that.

I ended up with the first french edition. Seems best to me.
_________________________

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#2225921 - 02/04/14 05:49 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
ChopinLives81 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 1420
Loc: New York City
Back when I first started playing piano, I bought the Dover/Mikuli editions for everything Bach, Beethoven, Chopin etc. When I went back to my junior high school to speak to my choir teacher who was also a pianist/organist he would always tell me that all Dover editions should be burned....lol
_________________________
"A Sorceror of tonality; the piano is my cauldron and the music is my spell, let those who cannot hear my calling die and burn in He11."

Check my videos @:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chopinlives81

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#2232348 - 02/16/14 12:12 AM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Miguel Rey Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 340
I found this information interesting. The preface to the Henle edition of nocturnes.

The editorial principles which havebeen applied derive from the method followed in the preceding volumes(Etudes, Waltzes), according to which,when several sources were available, auniform “source-layer”, as one may callit, was, as far as possible, taken as a basis.This basis can often be established by the conformity of certain definite criteria (such as the engraver’s annotations,the publishers’ numbers, etc.)between the autograph and one of thefirst editions published in one or theother country.In the absence of autographs, an attempt was made at ascertaining, from biographical notes, letter extracts, etc. with what publisher the composer at the period in question happened to be most closely associated. By adopting this method it was found possible in certain cases to draw conclusions regarding theauthenticity of the first editions published by that firm. Besides the manuscripts and first editions, the later editions of Mikuli and Paderewski, as well as the Oxford Edition, were likewise always consulted. Closer details on the sources consulted and the different variants are given in the Comments at the end of this volume.
_________________________
Bechstein B c1905


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#2232879 - 02/16/14 11:46 PM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1092
Loc: western MA, USA
Recently discovered that Kalmus doesn't even say which sources they're using for Chopin! I knew they were cheap but... One of those cases in which cheap turns out to be expensive.
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Sometimes a bagatelle is just a bagatelle. Beethoven Op. 33
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
Loving Fauré/Barcarolles and Ravel/Tombeau de Couperin
Always a fan of Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

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#2232884 - 02/17/14 12:12 AM Re: Chopin editions - which are best? [Re: Eric NYC]
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 5321
Loc: Philadelphia
I'll cast my vote for, "anything in the public domain," unless the composer is still alive.
_________________________
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.

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