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#2222141 - 01/28/14 09:04 PM Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800?
Musical Dan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Sydney, Australia
These seem to be the newest Stage Pianos on the market. Has anyone tried both of these, and compared them?
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Kawai MP7

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#2222297 - 01/29/14 04:10 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Yep ... they are both very very good indeed. Comes down to which sound do you prefer.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222310 - 01/29/14 05:00 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2423
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yep ... they are both very very good indeed. Comes down to which sound do you prefer.

... and how strong you are!

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#2222314 - 01/29/14 05:05 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
The Roland is 9 pounds heavier ... not enough to make a real difference.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222353 - 01/29/14 07:22 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
Musical Dan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yep ... they are both very very good indeed. Comes down to which sound do you prefer.


Which did you prefer the sound of? I've heard videos of both and Roland didn't sound that great, but it looks like yamaha still uses stretching. Haven't had a chance to test either yet (don't even think RD800 is even in Australia yet).
I'm in no rush though, (if Kawai brings out something soon that would be nice for more options... Seems like they should be about due to bring something new), although Kawai seems to have a history of being quite heavy.
_________________________
Kawai MP7

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#2222355 - 01/29/14 07:30 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
New Kawai is very heavy 35kgs or something. I usually prefer the sound of the Yamaha but the stretching/looping puts me off ...its 10yo technolnogy. The Rolands Studio Grand is perfect ! Based on a Yamaha of course ... as for the RD800 not being in Australia ...it's not in stores yet but it is here.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222549 - 01/29/14 12:57 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
StarvingLion Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/13
Posts: 226
The only thing that matters in a digital piano is whether it has solid wooden keys. The $2600 RD800 does not have solid wooden keys and you can't even get it in the back seat of a car. If Super Natural actually made a difference, the CP4 wouldn't be currently outselling the RD700nx by a very wide margin.

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#2222554 - 01/29/14 01:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Slightly off topic, but helpful for sound comparison between CP4, RD700NX, and Artis.

https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/sets/kurzweil-roland-and-yamaha
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2222665 - 01/29/14 04:23 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
Marco, thanks. Just what I needed!
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#2222704 - 01/29/14 05:20 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: StarvingLion]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Wow! The only thing that matters is wooden keys? Really? Sound, action, weight are irrelevant?
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2222709 - 01/29/14 05:27 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 404
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Slightly off topic, but helpful for sound comparison between CP4, RD700NX, and Artis.

https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/sets/kurzweil-roland-and-yamaha



Pianos sounds:
1. CP4
2. Kurzweil
3. Far Below - Roland

Anybody agree, disagree?

But I'm in love in the RD800 sound posted in another thread, but the way the sound was recorder can change everything in our reception of it.


Edited by kapelli (01/29/14 05:30 PM)

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#2222711 - 01/29/14 05:31 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
RD700NX Studio Grand was already very good. If they made the RD800 even better , the keybed more quiet (!) and a tad lighter , it promises to be a very good board and IMHO superior to the CP4 which is more 'Rompler like' in sound signature (stretched / no significant resonance effects and dynamic harmonic details). Also I assume the RD still has the tone-wheel organs on board v.s. CP4 organs that are sample based. But the CP4 shines in compact design, good keybed combined with low weight and a totally different piano sound, which you may prefer. They both look plastic ; the RD700NX and older CP series had much more class and style. Try and see what you like. They are essentially both good. Don't let marketing terms like wooden keybed, wooden parts or looks be leading in your decision, you either like the feel and connect with the instrument or you don't . For me SN + PHAIII had a very good and delicate keybed to sound connection , but the SN sound could be over-exaggerated in the bases (muffled) and not so 'natural' in the hights + the PHAIII keys we're very noisy. If the RD800 is indeed improved and the key-thumping is gone these disadvantages are history. Only hands-on can prove that (a few sound-demo's on youtube won't tell you the whole or true story !). I hope for Roland they nailed it , since they seem to be a bit on the defense the last few years.


Edited by JFP (01/29/14 05:32 PM)

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#2222712 - 01/29/14 05:33 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Coker]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Coker
Wow! The only thing that matters is wooden keys? Really? Sound, action, weight are irrelevant?


You know who's posting , don't you ;-)

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#2222739 - 01/29/14 06:45 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: JFP]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Connecticut,USA
"You know who's posting , don't you ;-)"


I guess I'm not an insider on this joke...
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2222783 - 01/29/14 08:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: StarvingLion]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: StarvingLion
The only thing that matters in a digital piano is whether it has solid wooden keys. The $2600 RD800 does not have solid wooden keys and you can't even get it in the back seat of a car. If Super Natural actually made a difference, the CP4 wouldn't be currently outselling the RD700nx by a very wide margin.


Geeze your a tool !
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222786 - 01/29/14 08:24 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
The Artis btw has two really interesting things about it.
The new German grand is fantastic and probably the best purely sampled AP available on a DP.
The keybed is the worst weighted keyboard I've played on a top of the range DP.


Edited by Dr Popper (01/29/14 08:25 PM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222831 - 01/29/14 09:50 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1732
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Yeah the Artis was brutal. Again, I thought the sample was excellent but no matter...the board was just not fun to play at all. I hope Kurzweil can come up with a keyboard with at least the Fatar action that's on the Nord Piano..that would be much more appealing.

I can't weigh in comparison wise on the 800 since I just played it at NAMM under probably less favorable conditions then at the GC with a Roland amp...and that's saying something. wink

The two times I've played the CP4 , I've been impressed enough to want one. cool
_________________________
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2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#2222901 - 01/30/14 12:58 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1425
I was really excited about the CP4 and was considering that as a possible replacement for the NP2 for the outstanding action and even less weight...albeit, not much less. But alas. I was terribly disappointed with the sound. It reminded me instantly of the same tired and dated sound Yamaha has been using that I heard from my old P80. I'm actually just going to hold out for either the Nord Piano 3 or pony up for the Nord Stage 2EX or 3, whatever they call it. I'm sure the next Nords will have 1GB of RAM, further improved features on already top notch feature sets. It's quite difficult to jump ship from Nord! laugh That's partly why I was so disappointed in the CP4. I was hoping for it to blow me away. The sound definitely didn't. The Nord's Yamaha samples sound more alive and authentic than Yamaha's own samples! YMMV of course.
_________________________
Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

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#2222906 - 01/30/14 01:19 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: PianoZac]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
I was terribly disappointed with the sound. It reminded me instantly of the same tired and dated sound Yamaha has been using that I heard from my old P80.


That's because it IS the same tired dated sound from the CFIIIs they have been using for years but I'm surprised you didn't like the CFX ? Even with all the awful Yamaha stretching and looping It's a very nice sounding piano and very different to the traditional Yamaha sound.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2222927 - 01/30/14 03:27 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
JFP Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 1336
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The Artis btw has two really interesting things about it.
The new German grand is fantastic and probably the best purely sampled AP available on a DP.
The keybed is the worst weighted keyboard I've played on a top of the range DP.


Yes. In the new CUP home piano version they use both the new piano sample AND the pretty OK Fatar TP40Wood keybed. Why they chose to use the inferior TP100 in the Artis remains a mystery to me . TP100 boards tend to have an advantage in low weight , but even that doesn't count for the Artis which is still pretty heavy overall. Kurzweil might consider an Artis V2 , with lightweight cabinet design (plastic ?) , FATAR TP40W 3 sensor keybed and perhaps add some string resonance simulations to the piano sample. That would make it really competitive in the field. For now the CP4 / RD800 / Artis is won easily by the first two ; in the first place because of the superior keybed in Yammie and Roland.

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#2223175 - 01/30/14 01:44 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Rappy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/14
Posts: 67
There is the TP400 as well which they could have chosen. This is the TP40Wood but with plastic keys.

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#2223233 - 01/30/14 03:54 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: PianoZac]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 843
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
It's quite difficult to jump ship from Nord! laugh

Exactly. As far as the sounds and the user interface are concerned... let's keep silent about the action wink

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#2223330 - 01/30/14 08:45 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: PianoZac]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
It's quite difficult to jump ship from Nord! :



If they had a decent action instead of awful and 4 times the memory maybe it would be ... but as they stand Nord's are extremely limited tools. Great for stage, lousy for everything else.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2223355 - 01/30/14 10:09 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 933
Loc: Waxahachie, Texas
My next board will be an Artis.
_________________________
"She loves to limbo, that much is clear. She's got the right dynamic for the New Frontier"
http://roadhouseallstars.com/

David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas

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#2223392 - 01/30/14 11:26 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: daviel]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: daviel
My next board will be an Artis.


Unplayable ...
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2223406 - 01/31/14 12:04 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1732
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: daviel
My next board will be an Artis.


Unplayable ...


I'd just say...not fun to play. I'd play it first David before getting one.

A top notch player can make most anything sound good on a gig. The Artis certainly falls within those *most anything* parameters but it would be far from my first choice.


Edited by Dave Ferris (01/31/14 12:57 PM)
Edit Reason: added thought
_________________________
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D, Yamaha CP4, CP5 (home use) , RCF TT08A, TT22A speakers

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#2224032 - 02/01/14 07:11 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
david_ka Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 93
Loc: Sweden
I´ve been searching for the perfect stage piano for a while and was hoping for something more from kawai and nord at the Namm-show. For now it´s down to rd800 or cp4. The cp4 is a little more slim size and that can be important when it comes to loading it in my car.
The Roland seems to have the better organ and that is also something I think is important.

I was hoping for a Kawai mp7, because the mp6 seems to have a lot what I seek but I´ve never tried one. And the kawai mp6 is almost half price if I you compare with roland and yamaha. That keeps me wonder, if it is so much cheaper, can it really be as good?
_________________________
www.poetstation.com

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#2224099 - 02/01/14 10:04 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Yep ... they are both very very good indeed. Comes down to which sound do you prefer.


If we forget about the internal sounds, but focus on key action and realistic/satisfying piano feel, how do these two respective stage pianos compare to the much heavier Kawai boards such as the VPC1 and the MP10?

In other words, what's the upside to spending almost as much $$$ on a controller only (VPC1) or on the both pricier and heavier MP10(MP11?)? In terms of key action, what (if anything) are we compromising by getting either the CP4 or the RD800 instead?
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

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#2224419 - 02/01/14 10:34 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Psychonaut]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: Psychonaut
what (if anything) are we compromising by getting either the CP4 or the RD800 instead?


Not much, I personally far prefer the lighter more playable actions of the Roland or Yamaha to the Kawai. The Kawai action is trying too hard to be very piano like as isn't as playable as the others.
If I had my pick I'd get the RD800 for action but the CP4 is very close.
Its really a matter of playing them and choosing the one that suits you best personally.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2224422 - 02/01/14 10:45 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
anotherscott Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3407
To me, the MP6 feels pretty similar to Yamaha's GH (i.e. P155/P255, CP33/40/50). The MP10 is very different. It's a heavier action, but also somehow "elegant" feeling, if that makes sense. If you prefer lighter actions, though, Yamaha CP4 and Roland RD800 would be lighter than the Kawais.

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#2224484 - 02/02/14 04:31 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Musical Dan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Listening to more demos the CP4 sounds really good to me, though not as good as random demonstration on you tube. I'm not sure if this is just due to recording quality.

I wonder if the yamaha demos sneakily show off their best notes in their demos (eg: any notes which are stretched they restrict to just passing notes, and sustained notes are just long enough so that you don't get to hear the looping.)


Edited by Musical Dan (02/02/14 04:32 AM)
_________________________
Kawai MP7

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#2224501 - 02/02/14 07:14 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Yamaha's voicing is very good .. very very good. And unless your specifically listening for it you can't really notice the looping in general solo play until your specifically listening for it and playing stuff to expose it. But once you get ... well then you always hear it but it took me a long time to notice it but after that I was always listening for it ...couldn't help myself. You can never hear it in a mix or playing most songs ...but its like a dormant disease you know its there and it annoys me on sheer principle. Stretching is very difficult to detect without software but its possible it could be noticed on a very small number of solo passages. Yamaha's pianos sound great listening to them ...the sound isn't the issue its the underlying gnawing feeling your being taken for a ride and basically paying for 10 year old sampling technology. The CPX is a absolutely fantastic piano voice its 88 key sampled actually (the only one that is) and deserves its place ...but it is looped. But seriously for 99% of situations it isn't a issue. I think the RD800 is a far better all round board but you could arguably say the Roland has only 1 really great AP itself. Its organs, clav's and 1100 odd other sounds are pretty good. And its controls and 4 part layering make it more versatile for live work.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2225897 - 02/04/14 05:27 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kevin Keys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/14
Posts: 35
Loc: Ohio
I am very interested in the Yamaha CP4.

It sounds very good to me in the video demos on youtube. I was impressed that it sounds good on the videos where a direct feed into the video recorder was used(Kraft Music especially and Sweetwater as well)but also, and more importantly, it still sounded good on the videos which were not a direct feed, but instead recorded the room. (I noticed this in the 5 or so videos recorded by the Japanese pianist, Masataka Kono. He was running the cp4 through a Pa system((a Yamaha PA system if I remember correctly)) and the sound was recorded with external mics or simply the video recorders mics.)

I plan to use the CP4 to perform for gigs(mainly solo classical music and jazz with a duo and trio) but also to record demos.

The CP4 has a recording function that records directly to USB.
Has anyone used this feature? Does the cp4 USB recording feature produce professional quality recordings?
_________________________
Kawai MP7(home), Yamaha CP33(gigs), Yamaha P80(retired), three QSC K10's, Allen and Heath Zed 10fx mixer, Sennheiser HD598, Bachendorff acoustic 45"

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#2225973 - 02/04/14 07:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 760
I heard something in this video that I haven't heard Nord or any other DP produce. That is the tape echo thing the player was doing live. Pretty cool. That and the live stereo vibrato controls really is making me think about the 800. Starts around 1:10.



Edited by 36251 (02/04/14 07:23 PM)
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2226113 - 02/05/14 02:06 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
I've now got them set up side by side ... the Roland kills the Yamaha except its got only one really great AP while the Yamaha has three quite acceptable (but by no means technically good) But the roland does have the one great one. AP's. The Roland has a big lead in Synth sounds, strings, massive in Organs and Clav's etc ...while I'd say they are about equal in EP's with the Yammie having perhaps a slight edge in the Rhodes but the RD has got some better Wurli's.

The Roland is the better all round board.

When you consider you can nearly buy both for the price of one Nord Stage 2 ...what's Nord doing ?



Edited by Dr Popper (02/05/14 02:11 AM)
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2226127 - 02/05/14 03:08 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
chadol Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/14
Posts: 38
Loc: Chicago, USA
Nice comparison. How would you say the actions compare? Is one noticeably lighter or heavier than the other?

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#2226136 - 02/05/14 03:30 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Yamaha is heavier then the Roland both are very good actions but the Rolands is probably the best graded action I've played.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2226191 - 02/05/14 08:05 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kevin Keys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/02/14
Posts: 35
Loc: Ohio
Is there a video yet of the Roland in a Live situation?

That is the real test.

Most of the higher-end DP's sound good with a direct feed to a recording device.
It is how they perform through PA speakers(in a live gigging situation) that is most important.
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#2226225 - 02/05/14 09:24 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
When you consider you can nearly buy both for the price of one Nord Stage 2 ...what's Nord doing ?


Selling lots of keyboards. ;-)

Really, it's a very different board. Knobby VA synth, aftertouch, full clonewheel functionality, custom sample loading, ability to load completely different sounding grands and uprights into them, etc. Also, a decent number of people still seem to think that their pianos simply sound better. (Well, I don't know if anyone has directly compared RD800 to Nord yet. I did think the CP4 would kinda knock off the Nord Piano 2, but I have seen a number of posts from people who still just prefer the sound of the Nord.) And while Roland has gotten the weight down some, the Nord is still lighter.

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#2226232 - 02/05/14 09:38 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Kevin Keys]
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I agree with Kevin Keys, I like the pianosound in the sweatwater demo.
To me it will come down to all other sounds to, does the cp4 have enough other usable sounds for live situations, organ, strings, pads.... I don´t know. I think the rd800 has more of that.
On the other hand, how many do I really use. A couple of string sounds, organ, a couple of pads, It´s all about how usable they are.

Negative for Roland is that it is a little bit longer, can be a problem in a small car. The weight differance is nothing I care to much about.
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#2226233 - 02/05/14 09:38 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Dr Popper Offline
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I've got a Stage 2 ... not exactly my favorite board. I don't think the AP pianos are that good. The Ep's are good but no better then the CP4 or RD800. The action is rubbish, the VA is pretty basic, and the organs while good are no better then the Roland. The biggest problem with the Nord is it doesn't have the memory to load enough sounds and the poly is rubbish ...notes drop out all the time if you attempt for example a 3 way layer split. Yeah they are light, red and easy to use. But they are very limiting boards.
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#2226247 - 02/05/14 10:12 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I've got a Stage 2 ...
the organs while good are no better then the Roland.

When you factor in real-time control (drawbuttons, dedicated percussion and C/V controls etc.) and quality of organ effects (rotary, overdrive, etc.), I don't see the RD competing with the Nord there.

Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
poly is rubbish ...notes drop out all the time if you attempt for example a 3 way layer split.

I haven't heard anyone complain about the poly in a layer/split before, interesting. I wonder if you're doing something uncommon. It really shouldn't be much of an issue. Organ has unlimited poly. Piano poly remains the same whether you play it by itself or you split/layer it with something. Unless maybe you layer it with a second piano, is that what you're doing? The engine with the least polyphony is the synth/sample engine, which is only 18, which I guess drops to 9 if you layer, so that's the really susceptible part, if you use synth/sample sounds with sustain pedal.

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#2226314 - 02/05/14 12:30 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
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Nord has a very marketable formula but for that kind of money, they should have better actions. We can thank them for forcing other big three to improve the live experience. I like the eq on the CP4 and the live controls on the 800.

I guess I can buy red paint if I need to cool it out.
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#2226657 - 02/05/14 10:47 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
xorbe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
The action is rubbish, the VA is pretty basic, and the organs while good are no better then the Roland.

Okay you got me, what is "VA"?

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#2226659 - 02/05/14 10:50 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: xorbe]
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Originally Posted By: xorbe

Okay you got me, what is "VA"?
Virtual Analog synthesizer.

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#2226677 - 02/05/14 11:33 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: anotherscott]
Dr Popper Offline
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Originally Posted By: anotherscott

I haven't heard anyone complain about the poly in a layer/split before, interesting. I wonder if you're doing something uncommon. It really shouldn't be much of an issue. Organ has unlimited poly. Piano poly remains the same whether you play it by itself or you split/layer it with something. Unless maybe you layer it with a second piano, is that what you're doing? The engine with the least polyphony is the synth/sample engine, which is only 18, which I guess drops to 9 if you layer, so that's the really susceptible part, if you use synth/sample sounds with sustain pedal.


I was dropping them all the time with strings layered with Italian grand on the top and a mellotron pad on the bottom. Pad would always drop on sustain.
Gave up in the end. To tell you the truth ... I don't see the attraction in the first place.
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#2226818 - 02/06/14 07:51 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Dr Popper]
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Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was dropping them all the time with strings layered with Italian grand on the top and a mellotron pad on the bottom. Pad would always drop on sustain.

Ah. The piano layer has nothing to do with it, since piano has its own polyphony. It's the fact that you were using two synth sounds (strings + mellotron) in the synth section that has 18-note polyphony, in conjunction with the sustain pedal that can make 18 notes go fast.

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#2227040 - 02/06/14 04:02 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
david_ka Offline
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Is there any difference when it comes to midi if you compare cp4 vs rd800. So far I have not used more than one keyboard live but if I get the cp4 I think I'll use my Nord electro 3 for organ and some synth sounds.
I really don't no what I should look for when it comes to midi 'cause I haven't used it so much.
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#2227130 - 02/06/14 06:51 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kawai James Offline
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david, what kind of functionality are you hoping to achieve by using MIDI with your Electro?

James
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#2227162 - 02/06/14 07:59 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: david_ka]
Dr Popper Offline
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Originally Posted By: david_ka
Is there any difference when it comes to midi if you compare cp4 vs rd800. So far I have not used more than one keyboard live but if I get the cp4 I think I'll use my Nord electro 3 for organ and some synth sounds.
I really don't no what I should look for when it comes to midi 'cause I haven't used it so much.



While both have a master keyboard mode the Roland has a far more functional features and easier setup and contains built in settings for most DAWS and Mainstage.


Edited by Dr Popper (02/06/14 08:00 PM)
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#2227222 - 02/06/14 11:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
PianoZac Offline
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Well I had a chance to play the NP2, RD800, and CP4 back to back to back (quite literally) in my favorite music store here.

The RD800 does sound and play well. For strictly home use, no question I would go with the Roland. The action feels a little more solid than the PHA III and the new V-Piano Grand sample sounded good. I'd need to spend more time with it, but at the weight, length, and my general disappointment with SN samples in a live setting, I'll likely not buy another RD stage piano. Again though, for home use of a slab, it is a really good sounding and playing digital piano.

The CP4 actually sounded better through the headphones than when played through a keyboard amp at GC. No surprise there though, right? The action of the CP4 was really good. Unbelievable they put an action that good into a board that weighs less than 40lbs. I need to go and spend more time with it. Every time I've sat in front of a mix listening to a Yamaha I'm impressed with the ability of the sound to cut through and in a live setting the Yamaha sound works. Forget the marketing fluff that's lost in a live mix. With this said, it still sounds so much like my Yamaha P80 I had in 2004.

Having owned the Nord Piano 88 and Nord Piano 2 since January of 2011, I still believe for live work, the Nord is the best option. The action is not awful contrary to what is often said. It's very playable and more importantly it connects as good as any with the sounds. Nord has actually recently added a software update that added a 'heavier' velocity setting to make the action feel heavier. It is indeed better. Is the action as good as the other two boards? No, but it's a better playing action than just about anything outside of the better Yamahas, Rolands, and Kawais. Certainly better than Korgs, Kurzweils, Casios, and others I've played. It's a compromise no doubt though. The very fact that Nord is constantly updating, adding features, adding samples, and adding hardware in a such a uniquely diverse but focused approach is what is so appealing. Their samples are incredibly diverse and playable. Build quality too is above both the Yamaha and the Roland who've now gone to plastics to save weight. The Nord, while not the choice for home use is about the best thing I can think of for live use. It's almost not worth comparing the Nord with the others since the Nord is so dedicated for live playing while the others seem far more home-use friendly.
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#2227228 - 02/06/14 11:17 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kawai James Offline
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Zac!

Cheers,
James
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#2227286 - 02/07/14 02:20 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
david_ka Offline
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Kawai james, I don´t know:) Layer sounds from the nord with piano from Yamaha. Play it on the yamaha and control the volume of the layer with the sliders. Same thing if I at some point want to use a computer with software sounds.

As you can see I´m not really sure but i don´t want to buy a stagepiano and find out after a while that it can´t do all I need.

I bought the electro 3 and used it at the same time as playing guitar and it worked pretty well, because I hade guitars and amps to carry I needed something lightweight. Since we are two guitarplayers in the band I gave up the guitar to only play piano/organ/synth.
ou
And I feel limitied with the electro, I can´t layer sound, the pianofeel isn´t so good. But it is lightweight and thats not what you can say about the rd800.

I have not played the nord piano 2 so much but it could be an alternativ if it had the organ, it doesn´t. I don´t mind using to boards but I want to be able to use one if I need to. Sometimes it´s overkill using two keyboards.

And I want good piano action, not to much compromise on that. Otherwise I might as well use semiweighted keys.
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#2227287 - 02/07/14 02:21 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
david_ka Offline
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I bet the kawai mp7 would be all I´m lookin´for, don´t you think:)
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#2227290 - 02/07/14 02:27 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kawai James Offline
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Maybe. wink
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#2227410 - 02/07/14 11:46 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Kawai James]
HisKidd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Maybe. wink


James, I know you can't comment on features of either the MP7 or the MP11, and I want ask you to do that. I've noted (as others on the board) that Kawai has added features to its MP6 piano that are not contained on the MP10. Though costing much less than the MP10 the MP6 offers some incredible features missing on the more expensive board. It's a great controller with its 4 zones, its added sounds, additional save to presets (256), and it's thorough tweakability. Here's hoping that the new MP7 will also have it's own "stand alone" strong features! Can't wait to see what's in store for the next generation of Kawai stage pianos!
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#2227614 - 02/07/14 07:12 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kawai James Offline
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The MP10 adopted a new 'Sections' approach, which was very different to previous MP models, while the MP6 retained the traditional 'Zones' functionality.

Cheers,
James
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#2227618 - 02/07/14 07:27 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: anotherscott]
doremi Offline
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Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
I was dropping them all the time with strings layered with Italian grand on the top and a mellotron pad on the bottom. Pad would always drop on sustain.

Ah. The piano layer has nothing to do with it, since piano has its own polyphony. It's the fact that you were using two synth sounds (strings + mellotron) in the synth section that has 18-note polyphony, in conjunction with the sustain pedal that can make 18 notes go fast.

A polyphony of 18 sounds (pardon the pun) absurdly low. The piano section has a polyphony 40 - 60. I thought, if you pay multiple kilo $s, then you are "entitled" to 128 polyphony these days? Any rationale for these low numbers from Nord?


Edited by doremi (02/07/14 07:37 PM)
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#2227629 - 02/07/14 07:52 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: doremi]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: doremi
A polyphony of 18 sounds (pardon the pun) absurdly low. The piano section has a polyphony 40 -60. Any rationale for these low numbers from Nord?

I don't know of any rationale, but despite the "low" piano polyphony of 40-60, I don't remember ever seeing anyone complain about it in actual use, either. (Even Dr Popper complained about losing pad notes, not piano notes.) They probably have a very intelligent algorithm for managing it. I've mentioned before that I was able to play a passage that caused dropped notes on a board with 64 note polyphony, yet the same passage played fine on another board with 32 note polyphony, so the numbers alone really don't tell the story. People do sometimes mention reasons they aren't fans of the Nord pianos, but as far as I've seen, polyphony issues has never been one of them.

Virtual analog synthesis generally has somewhat low polyphony. It's often not an issue, since those sounds are usually played with little or no sustain pedal use. But for comparison, the Studiologic Sledge is 16, Waldorf Blofeld is 25, King Korg is 24, MicroKorgs are 4 to 8, Arturia Origin is 32. (Actual analog synths are 1 to 12.)

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#2227651 - 02/07/14 08:12 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
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I believe that Nord's polyphony count is for stereo voices, which would equate to a polyphony of 80-120 in a "standard" DP.
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#2227652 - 02/07/14 08:22 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: voxpops]
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
I believe that Nord's polyphony count is for stereo voices, which would equate to a polyphony of 80-120 in a "standard" DP.

Nord specs it at 40 stereo, 60 mono.

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#2227675 - 02/07/14 09:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Slightly off topic, but helpful for sound comparison between CP4, RD700NX, and Artis.

https://soundcloud.com/sonic-sense-pro-audio/sets/kurzweil-roland-and-yamaha



I think I just found the matching video demo. Again, sorry a bit OT, but still helpful:


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#2227689 - 02/07/14 09:56 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: anotherscott]
voxpops Online   content
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Originally Posted By: anotherscott
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I believe that Nord's polyphony count is for stereo voices, which would equate to a polyphony of 80-120 in a "standard" DP.

Nord specs it at 40 stereo, 60 mono.

Thanks for clarifying.

Interesting that the mono count is only half as much again as the stereo.
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#2227691 - 02/07/14 10:02 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: voxpops]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Interesting that the mono count is only half as much again as the stereo.

Showing once again that Nord has their own ways of doing things!

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#2227721 - 02/07/14 11:55 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
TheodorN Offline
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No, the mono need is 2/3 of the stereo need, if the ratio is 40/60, stereo/mono. That actually means, that to get from mono to stereo, it's 50% increase of used polyphony.

I always thought that stereo took up twice as much of the polyphony, as compared to mono. That is, if you play one note in mono, the piano has one less notes of polyphony at the disposal. If you play one note in stereo, it's two less notes of polyphony you have left.

P(after) = P(before) - notesPlayed(mono)
P(after) = P(before) - 2*notesPlayed(stereo)

Am I misunderstanding something, or Nord, and the latter on purpose maybe?

Edit2: About that video, soundwise, of the three, I liked the Yamaha CP4 most.


Edited by TheodorN (02/08/14 12:06 AM)
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#2228037 - 02/08/14 06:46 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: TheodorN]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: voxpops
Interesting that the mono count is only half as much again as the stereo.
Originally Posted By: TheodorN
No, the mono need is 2/3 of the stereo need, if the ratio is 40/60, stereo/mono. That actually means, that to get from mono to stereo, it's 50% increase of used polyphony.

Same thing. "50% increase" means the same as "half as much again."

Originally Posted By: TheodorN
I always thought that stereo took up twice as much of the polyphony, as compared to mono.

In most cases, yes. Nord is obviously doing something differently. That's why vox called it "interesting" in the first place.

To get back to the actual issue of polyphony limitations, Nord's approach of separate polyphony for the separate "engines" also has an advantage over some others. 40 stereo piano plus 18 synth (say, strings) means you can layer the two, and still have 40 piano notes available. On a typical board with 64 polyphony, which sounds like more, if you layered stereo piano and stereo strings, your piano polyphony would be reduced to 16!

Even with today's more common 128 polyphony boards, if you layered stereo piano and stereo strings on most boards, your piano polyphony would be down to 32, compared to the 40 you would still have on the Nord that, at first glance, appears to have less polyphony. Though of course, you'd be able to have 32 notes of strings sustaining, instead of only the last 18. Now, how beneficial it really is to have 32 notes of sustaining strings under your piano rather than 18 (and whether that's worth cutting your piano polyphony from 40 to 32) is a different question. ;-)

Anyway, the fact that Nord dedicates 40 notes of polyphony to the stereo piano may be why there are no real world complaints about it, as so many other boards that look more impressive on paper actually drop you to less than 40 once you go stereo and/or add more sounds with splits and layers.

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#2228153 - 02/08/14 10:04 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
TheodorN Offline
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Well, voxpops said that mono uses up half as much as stereo. He was not talking about increase, but decrease, because mono uses less than stereo. Sorry, but this confused me, my understanding of "half as much" is, that if I eat half as much of nuts as John Doe, it means, if John Doe eats 60 nuts, I eat 30.

But at least we were talking about the same thing, I see that now, and thank you for your further explanations of polyphony, anotherscott.
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#2228157 - 02/08/14 10:21 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: TheodorN]
anotherscott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: TheodorN
Well, voxpops said that mono uses up half as much as stereo. He was not talking about increase, but decrease, because mono uses less than stereo. Sorry, but this confused me, my understanding of "half as much" is, that if I eat half as much of nuts as John Doe, it means, if John Doe eats 60 nuts, I eat 30.

I see you're from Sweden, so maybe this is a language issue, but voxpops didn't say "half as much" - he said "half as much again" which is entirely different. "Half as much" means 50%. "Half as much again" means 50% more. (Or, if you prefer, 150%.) It's not the most common way to say it, but it is correct. Hopefully that clears it all up. Glad I helped on the polyphony!

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#2228162 - 02/08/14 10:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
TheodorN Offline
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Thank you, anotherscott, didn't realize that the "again" changed the meaning. cool Actually I'm from Iceland, but living in Sweden.
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#2228527 - 02/09/14 03:50 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
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CP4 has music rest option. What do you do with RD800? No rest option, same as 700NX? Just curious what Roland owners do. I know it's not necessarily a significant feature for some. But it's a fairly important option on my checklist while shopping for my second DP.


Edited by Marko in Boston (02/09/14 03:54 PM)
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#2228548 - 02/09/14 04:34 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Coker Offline
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Decent music stands placed behind the keyboard work well and won't shake the music when you dig into the keyboard. I have a CP4 but prefer to use music stand.
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#2228599 - 02/09/14 05:37 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Coker]
Marko in Boston Offline
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I can understand that. I just hate to bring additional gear to a gig. All Kawai and Yamaha have music rest option, why not Roland?? I know, Im getting OT.
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#2238083 - 02/26/14 05:56 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Very good side-by-side comparison. Both sound very nice. Tough choice for some.


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KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2238091 - 02/26/14 06:11 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
peterws Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3796
Loc: Northern England.
Strewth, the guy likes to jabber doesn`t he? But he eventually got the job done.

Both sounded well. But did they sound even the least like an acoustic? No. Do we want `em to? Speaking for myself, maybe now and again. The Yammie was sweeter. Can you de tune it? grin For Joplin . . .


Edited by peterws (02/26/14 06:11 PM)
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#2238097 - 02/26/14 06:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I must admit I liked the Yamaha a bit better on the acoustic pianos. However, the Studio on the Roland was nice too. What is he trying to show at 9:02? Damper/string resonance comparison?
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KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2238103 - 02/26/14 06:49 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: peterws]
David Farley Offline
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Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 441
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: peterws
Strewth, the guy likes to jabber doesn`t he? But he eventually got the job done.

Both sounded well. But did they sound even the least like an acoustic? No. Do we want `em to? Speaking for myself, maybe now and again. The Yammie was sweeter. Can you de tune it? grin For Joplin . . .


It has a "ragtime" setting on the S6 sample, but you could probably go beyond even that if you wanted.

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#2239401 - 03/01/14 08:00 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Musical Dan Offline
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Registered: 05/27/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I tried the CP4 today and was very impressed. Loved all three piano sounds. Action was good.Good Ep sounds. Weight is much less (17.5kg) than the last generation of Stage Pianos. Interface was simple, and has has enough features for everything I really need. This will probably be be the one. Not to mention the price is much less than even the RD700NX (RD800 not yet in stores in Australia).
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#2239407 - 03/01/14 08:24 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Kevin Keys Offline
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Registered: 02/02/14
Posts: 35
Loc: Ohio
That was an excellent demonstration video. Both keyboards sound great.

My personal preference for acoustic pianos is the Yamaha.

I liked the other non piano sounds on the Roland maybe a little tiny bit better.

I am probably going to go for the CP4 because I mainly use AP sounds, but I am waiting for the MP7 to come out just to be certain.

I hope he will do a video comparing the CP4 and MP7.
_________________________
Kawai MP7(home), Yamaha CP33(gigs), Yamaha P80(retired), three QSC K10's, Allen and Heath Zed 10fx mixer, Sennheiser HD598, Bachendorff acoustic 45"

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#2242137 - 03/06/14 10:13 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I went to GC midafternoon yesterday for something non-keyboard related. Of course I had to visit the keyboard area regardless. They had the CP4 and RD800 side by on a lower lever rack with bench and pedal on each. VERY rare for GC!! So I ran out to my car and grabbed my headphones (HD380). Timing was perfect because the place was dead midafternoon and I had quick 20 minutes to spare.

So here are my brief findings on both. However, probably nothing that hasn’t already been said on the forums:

Action: Both very good and enjoyable to play. RD800 seems to be the same as RD700NX just a bit les thumping and faintly softer touch. IMO it feels like same mechanics of RD700NX with additional felt and changed the name from PHA3 to PHA4. That’s fine. It’s still great action. CP4 feels slightly lighter than RD800. Both very similar except that you can somewhat sense the let-off in the RD800. I want to say I prefer the CP4’s action a bit more due to the wooden keys. Wood keys seem to make it more realistic but I’m not convinced that’s only in my mind. Again, both very nice feel, but neither match the authenticity of the RM3 or GF if thats what you are expecting.

Sound: I mostly played the default APs this go-round and quickly tried a few voices. Both APs very good, but different for sure. RD800, despite what some say, I found the default Concert Grand to be quite good with some minor adjustment on the EQ and tone color. The sound seems to be “cleaner” and more dynamic than the CP4 but not as rich and a little plinky. I don’t hear the metallic-like sound as much as I did in the RD700NX somewhere between C4-C6. The CP4 CFX was full and rich. At default it’s just slightly over processed with reverb with some compression perhaps and not as “clean” as RD800 but still a little more authentic. The best way I can describe “clean” is that the RD800 was very clear and dynamic with wide stereo balance. The CP4 sounds very rich and authentic but it not as clean meaning that it almost sounds like a thin sheet of cloth is covering the sound or I need a swab to clean my ears. I just could not EQ that hint of muffled-like tone out of it. Yet, I still preferred the rich tones over the RD800. Truly a matter of taste. Keep in mind that everything I say means nothing when it comes to live performance. Im demoing with flat studio headphones and these are stage pianos designed to be played live with proper amplification.

Navigation/layout/esthetics: As good as Yamaha improved it’s navigation, I think RD800 would be better for live situation. RD800 quick and easy to use. No manual needed. I found everything I was looking almost instantly. CP4 took me a bit to figure out, yet much better that the previous CP5. Does not really matter which one you buy. You still will want to study and program it before you go live. Both are built with heavy duty plastics/polymer. IMO CP5 and RD700NX were much better looking and significantly more solid. I know, but heavy. Does it matter? Not really as long as they are roadworthy which they certainly are.

Conclusion: Not easy to give a definitive conclusion after 20 minutes, but I can say that both are suited very well for any professional for live performances. The RD800 offers more in features, editing, and “usable” voices in addition to great APs and good EPs. CP4 nicely covers all the bases for great APs and great EPs with a few “usable” voices. Many of the additional CP4 voices are drum sets and way too many IMO. One thing for sure is that these upgraded models will not blow you away from the previous version. The updates are almost disappointing if you had high expectation for a big change from the CP5 or RD700NX.
My final thoughts. I would be pleased with either one. The both have plenty to offer for stage and studio. However, If I was a CP5 or RD700NX owner, I would not race out to sell or trade for either one of these unless I really needed go with a lighter DP. The upgrades seem miniscule in the big picture of what we really want or would like to see in an upgrade. Will these upgrades make your life a little easier? Maybe. Will they sound and play significantly better than predecessors? Not by much. Is this another instance of planned obsolesces? Perhaps
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2242403 - 03/06/14 09:12 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
jeffreyfranz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/14
Posts: 34
Loc: Central California
Very thoughtful evaluation. Thanks, Marko.

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#2242507 - 03/07/14 04:32 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
Perhaps one of the great advantages the CP4/40 have over a lot of the opposition is that apart from the Nords, these are the first DPs I've come across which sound not only acceptable but actually very good in mono. For gigging pros, this is a really important point which Yamaha have really addressed. I spent about an hour this morning really honing a stock mono sound which is warm and expressive. When I switched back to some of the stereo offerings, I found myself _preferring_ my mono creation.

I haven't yet had chance to check out the RD800 but my memories of using my old RD700GX mono are not happy ones. It never failed to disappoint me how a DP which sounded so wonderful in the studio could sound so crappy live.

Btw, I agree with Marko that the standard presets don't show the CP4/40 at its best – but the good news is that you can go really quite deep with the editing to create a sound you like with relative ease. The first port of call for customisers should be the Velocity Depth and Offset parameters, closely followed by the Filter Cut-off and Res controls.
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Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#2242543 - 03/07/14 08:04 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Aidan]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Would you care to share your settings for the mono sound?
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#2242561 - 03/07/14 09:17 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Coker]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
OK I'll try. I started out with the standard CF mono factory preset. The rest of the settings run like this:

COMMON
Reverb effect: NHall
Rev time 1.9ms
Init time 22.1ms

PART

Play mode:
Gain 118 Rev send 30
Vel Depth 68 Vel Offset 58

Filter:
Cut-off +5 Res +6

Effect A
Hi res: 0.6 Dry/Wet D46>W, all other settings as per preset

I think I left everything else as it was but can't be 100% sure, as I did some digging. I may have upped the low frequencies in the EQ501 effect on A.
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Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#2242562 - 03/07/14 09:18 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
I should add the caveat that you may need to adjust these further depending on your amplification. The above sounds good to me through a single QSC K10, my standard amp.
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#2242735 - 03/07/14 04:35 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Aidan]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 197
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Thanks Very Much. I'll try it
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#2244933 - 03/11/14 08:03 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
I demoed the CP4 and RD800 again this afternoon for over an hour. They are both so nice sounding in their own way. At this point, Im changing my mind and leaning more to the the RD800. I might give the action to CP4 but just by a slight hair. Now, I think the RD800 might be the clear winner in overall sound and functionality - the whole package. The RD800 has something new that I was never able to hear with the RD700nx. Surprising to me because I'm not a Roland fan. I dug into the piano and tone designer as well as the live set edits. Wow, very impressed with the sound I was getting. AND I think I finally understand and hear what the "string resonance" is all about. Yes, the sound is "alive" with string resonance. Roland did something different this time around with the RD800 that truly addressed everything I disliked about their piano sound. Im certain I would have purchased the the RD800 today if I didn't know the MP7 is on it's way. I can't imagine the MP7 disappointing me and Im sure that will be my choice in the end. As nice as the RD800 is I cant see myself spending $2,500 on it knowing that the MP11 is within that reach and the MP7 much less. HOWEVER, Im glad and fortunate to have options now.
_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2244971 - 03/11/14 08:52 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3665
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
I think I finally understand and hear what the "string resonance" is all about. Yes, the sound is "alive" with string resonance.


thumb Told ya! It is a real thing - glad you've come across to our side. grin

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#2244990 - 03/11/14 09:40 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: ando]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
I think I finally understand and hear what the "string resonance" is all about. Yes, the sound is "alive" with string resonance.


thumb Told ya! It is a real thing - glad you've come across to our side. grin


You got me, ando! I think you might be right without a doubt. I can somewhat detect the string resonance on my ES7 , but clearly on the RD800 with the option of 0-127. On some pieces I played with the string resonances turned up gave a very full, organic tone that indeed seems to come "alive" . This does not necessarily means it sounds "better" than the CP4 but certainly more "believable" . Maybe this is why I prefer the sound of the CG on my ES7 over the CP4 as I mentioned in a previous post.

So, I guess it's fair to say that string resonance is a credible and beneficial feature on a digital piano if properly implemented into the sound engine by the manufacturer. I'm also assuming string resonance can vary per manufacturer and not all sound and perform the same.
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#2245002 - 03/11/14 09:59 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3665
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston

So, I guess it's fair to say that string resonance is a credible and beneficial feature on a digital piano if properly implemented into the sound engine by the manufacturer. I'm also assuming string resonance can vary per manufacturer and not all sound and perform the same.


Very much so. But I guess it's in the eye of the beholder which brands make a given piano come alive. For me, any string resonance is better than none - but some do it better than others. Roland does it well, Casio was reasonable. Kawai is good on their higher models. I can't recall if I ever experienced it on a Yamaha product - but if I did it wasn't great. The Yamahas have a nice overall tone in terms of samples, but they don't quite feel "alive" to me. That's why I won't even bother trying to track down a CP4 to try out (unless it's right in front of me, but I won't drive across town to find one). I was very disappointed by Yamaha's continued neglect of string resonance. I have a Yamaha acoustic anyway - plenty of resonance there! I'm very excited to try the Kawai MP7 because it might just fit the bill for a quiet practice/small gigs piano.

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#2258217 - 04/07/14 02:50 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Musical Dan]
Marko in Boston Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 910
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Not a "vs" video, but a nice little jam with both CP4 and RD800.

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#2258278 - 04/07/14 05:01 PM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 760
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Not a "vs" video, but a nice little jam with both CP4 and RD800.



man, he is killing the cp4 bass!
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AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2258967 - 04/09/14 04:30 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: Marko in Boston]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 382
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
CP4 has music rest option. What do you do with RD800? No rest option, same as 700NX? Just curious what Roland owners do. I know it's not necessarily a significant feature for some. But it's a fairly important option on my checklist while shopping for my second DP.


It's a good question and is considerably significant to me. Do Roland assume their customers are too talented to need music? It is a big big problem for any serious classical musician not to have a music rest option while you are learning new pieces. Classic players don't busk. But it didn't stop me buying an RD700 NX. I have bought an adjustable music stand which stands immediately behind the piano and is the perfect answer until the music is memorised, which takes a long time for me.

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#2258977 - 04/09/14 05:23 AM Re: Yamaha CP4 vs Roland RD800? [Re: slipperykeys]
bennevis Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 5415
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
CP4 has music rest option. What do you do with RD800? No rest option, same as 700NX? Just curious what Roland owners do. I know it's not necessarily a significant feature for some. But it's a fairly important option on my checklist while shopping for my second DP.


It's a good question and is considerably significant to me. Do Roland assume their customers are too talented to need music? It is a big big problem for any serious classical musician not to have a music rest option while you are learning new pieces. Classic players don't busk. But it didn't stop me buying an RD700 NX. I have bought an adjustable music stand which stands immediately behind the piano and is the perfect answer until the music is memorised, which takes a long time for me.

My V-Piano doesn't have a music rest either, but it's a slab, and unlike the V-Piano Grand, wasn't marketed for classical musicians. I suppose it allows for a shiny clean top surface, perfect for piling classical music scores on. (I have two big stacks on top to weigh the DP down, so that it wouldn't move when I thump hard..... wink ).

When I pointed out the absence of a music rest to my dealer, he threw in a Stagg music stand for free, which I mount behind the slab. It also means that I can play from two scores at the same time (one on the stand, the other on top of the slab).
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