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#2225491 - 02/03/14 11:20 PM Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Hi everyone-

A private seller in Northern California is selling a 1992 Yamaha C7, "F" secondary series (the letter before the serial #) for $29,000. I'm interested in going to try it out (2 hours away). Based on my research, this price seems really high. I've told them this and asked if their price is negotiable, and they said they would take $1,000 off, (which again, doesn't seem like enough.) According to the seller, the piano is in pristine condition with little use time. I'd like to build up some bargaining power & would like to bounce this off you guys to get an idea of what a fair price would be (or even a range) for a C7 of this vintage & condition, so if I go down there, and the piano checks out, I can at least have some credible figures in my head.
I know there is a depreciation chart somewhere but I can't seem to find it.
Anyone have any thoughts?

thanks a million

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#2225533 - 02/04/14 01:15 AM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
For some strange reason, older Yamahas command a really high premium; IMO, they are not as good as the new Yamahas. I think the seller is asking way, way too much. Faust Harrison, a premier NY dealer and restoration shop currently has a 1996 Yamaha C7 listed on eBay for $19,900 OBO (or best offer) AND they installed new bass strings and hammers! Call their bluff; offer them $14,000 for their C7 and if they don't take it, tell them you're going to buy the one from Faust Harrison and have it shipped to you.
_________________________
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#2225539 - 02/04/14 01:30 AM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 809
Here's a guy in the Bay Area with a 20 y.o C7 asking $21.5K.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/4307646629.html

You could stop by Music Exchange in the SF Bay Area, see what they're selling their new C3x, C5x, etc... They're pretty honest and put close to out-the-door prices on the sticker. You could use that number to figure out what their discount from SMP is. I *think* a year ago they had the C3x for about $33K sticker, which is 30% off SMP. But I think they've since lowered it because at the time they had left over C's so they had to jack up the Cx's.

So let's say it's 33% off SMP, for a C7x, that's $44.6K. Take 15% off since it's a C7 not a C7x = $37.9K, then I would multiply by 40%-50% = $15K - $18.95K since it's 22 years old.

Link to SMP
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#2225655 - 02/04/14 08:46 AM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1125
Loc: Tennessee
Greetings,
That piano would sell for approx. $18,000 around here. It's 22 years old, which is a veteran. I have seen two of this age sell in the past year for $ 18,000 and 21,000. You have considerable moving expenses, and I would wager that the action is in need of regulation, since every used piano I have seen sold is out of regulation.
Regards,

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#2225699 - 02/04/14 10:21 AM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Troy 125 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 120
When I've run into sellers asking way more than what they should, I've never been able to talk one down to a reasonable price, even showing them what similar pianos to theirs are selling for. I think sometimes being the bearer of bad news works against you.

Good luck!

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#2225759 - 02/04/14 12:47 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: beethoven986]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Thank you very much.
So what would you recommend as the next step? Should I first drive over and see it before I try to haggle anymore? Or first email them back saying they're asking way too much ( in a nice way :-) and that I can't go over and look at it unless they're more realistic in pricing?
Just trying to figure out which way might get better results

thanks

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#2225786 - 02/04/14 01:32 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8472
Loc: Georgia, USA
I'm no expert negotiator or business person, but you can approach this one of two ways... (well, you can approach it many different ways, I suppose smile ); firstly, contact the owners and tell them you are very interested in the C7 and would like to see the piano in person and possibly make them an offer, pending a piano tech inspection; or, secondly, tell them you are very interested in the piano and that you have done some research on pre-owned values/prices for similar age, model and condition C7s and make them an offer up front, cold-turkey, so-to-speak.

The second approach is more likely to irritate the sellers... or, motivate them to accept your offer, or make a counter offer.

When I bought my older C7, I got some preliminary info on the piano, which indicated that some repairs would be needed, and made an offer (which was less than they were asking) pending personal inspection of the piano. The sellers came back with a counter offer, and I drove to another state to look at the piano. After I looked at the piano in person, I accepted the counter offer without any further negotiations, and hoped they would not change their mind until I could close the deal.

I prefer not to divulge what I paid for my C7, which is an older model and needed some work (though it was still a lot of money for my pocketbook smile ).

Good luck, and keep us informed!

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2225792 - 02/04/14 02:00 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Troy 125 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/13
Posts: 120
phrygian, message sent

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#2225794 - 02/04/14 02:10 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
corysold Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/14
Posts: 22
I'm not sure how you plan on buying, but I'd show up with what I'm willing to pay in cold hard cash. Amazing what $14K in 100's can do to a sellers willpower. I've never done it with a piano, but it has been helpful in buying used cars, which isn't too much different.

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#2225935 - 02/04/14 06:11 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: michaelha]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: michaelh
Here's a guy in the Bay Area with a 20 y.o C7 asking $21.5K.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/msg/4307646629.html

You could stop by Music Exchange in the SF Bay Area, see what they're selling their new C3x, C5x, etc... They're pretty honest and put close to out-the-door prices on the sticker. You could use that number to figure out what their discount from SMP is. I *think* a year ago they had the C3x for about $33K sticker, which is 30% off SMP. But I think they've since lowered it because at the time they had left over C's so they had to jack up the Cx's.

So let's say it's 33% off SMP, for a C7x, that's $44.6K. Take 15% off since it's a C7 not a C7x = $37.9K, then I would multiply by 40%-50% = $15K - $18.95K since it's 22 years old.

Link to SMP




HI Michael!
Thanks for this calculation. Also, I did see that other Craigslist posting about the other Yamaha C7- I've also contacted that guy as well

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#2225936 - 02/04/14 06:13 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: Rickster]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Sounds good Rick, thank you!

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#2226001 - 02/04/14 08:27 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
michaelha Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/05/13
Posts: 809
Originally Posted By: phrygian
Thank you very much.
So what would you recommend as the next step? Should I first drive over and see it before I try to haggle anymore? Or first email them back saying they're asking way too much ( in a nice way :-) and that I can't go over and look at it unless they're more realistic in pricing?
Just trying to figure out which way might get better results

thanks


I prefer to do things asynchronously (not in real time). Go check it out. Thank him for his time and say you'll get back to him. If you liked it, try to find a tech to check it out. Then email or call the seller later with an offer and include comparables from ebay/CL. Since he's about 50% off, I doubt he'll accept on the spot and don't expect it. Leave him your contact info and contact you when he comes down to earth.
_________________________
Casio CDP-100
2012 Kawai RX-5 BLAK

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#2226067 - 02/04/14 11:18 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: corysold]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: corysold
I'm not sure how you plan on buying, but I'd show up with what I'm willing to pay in cold hard cash. Amazing what $14K in 100's can do to a sellers willpower. I've never done it with a piano, but it has been helpful in buying used cars, which isn't too much different.


Awesome! that is very cool- I like the idea of just showing up like a Robert DeNiro thug type with a wad of cash. I don't know if I can pull that off though- also I'd have to have a tech examine it first.

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#2226068 - 02/04/14 11:19 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: michaelha]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Sounds good, thank you Michael

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#2226563 - 02/05/14 07:45 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
I always use this technique when buying anything from a private seller. I just say that I will make an offer, with respect, but it is all I can afford. I tell them not to be angry because it is a genuine offer backed with cash. Sometimes I never hear from them again, but many times they call in the future. You have to assess what the piano is really worth, and don't let excitement or sentiment change your judgement to sway your offer. As my Father used to say, "there's another one around the corner" This made me so mad when I was 16, but he was right. I buy many antique autos this way. If I don't get them, I didn't overspend, and there is another possible deal around the corner! Best of luck to you!
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

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#2226566 - 02/05/14 07:49 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
thetandyman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 443
Loc: Indiana
I always use this technique when buying anything from a private seller. I just say that I will make an offer, with respect, but it is all I can afford. I tell them not to be angry because it is a genuine offer backed with cash. Sometimes I never hear from them again, but many times they call in the future. You have to assess what the piano is really worth, and don't let excitement or sentiment change your judgement to sway your offer. As my Father used to say, "there's another one around the corner" This made me so mad when I was 16, but he was right. I buy many antique autos this way. If I don't get them, I didn't overspend, and there is another possible deal around the corner! Best of luck to you! PS, never attack their asking price with facts, just be very humble and submit your offer with propriety. Some may disagree, but I have much experience with sales and purchases of unusual items. It has made me a millionaire, NO thousandaire, OOPS maybe Hundredaire. HAH!
_________________________
Marriage is like a card game, you start with two hearts and a diamond, later you wish you had a club and a spade!
Yamaha G7 Yamaha CVP75 digital, Allen 3500 theater organ

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#2226585 - 02/05/14 08:20 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
terminaldegree Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2658
Loc: western Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: phrygian

Awesome! that is very cool- I like the idea of just showing up like a Robert DeNiro thug type with a wad of cash. I don't know if I can pull that off though- also I'd have to have a tech examine it first.


An opposing view:
If you showed up at my door with $14,000 in $100 bills to buy something of mine, I would never accept that. We would need to take a side trip to the bank to determine that each of those $100 bills is not counterfeit.

...well that, and if you want to buy my Bechstein you'll need more than $14,000 to do it!
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#2226586 - 02/05/14 08:23 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8472
Loc: Georgia, USA
To add one more little tid-bit to what everyone has said; when it comes to negotiating a purchase price for a private sale, particularly when offering less than the asking price, you've got to be prepared to either walk away or increase your offer, if the seller doesn't accept your initial offer.

I made an offer on an old upright piano a few months ago and the owner turned me down... said she couldn't sell it for that amount. About 4 weeks later she calls me and said she changed her mind and would sell me the piano for what I offered. Thing is, during that 4 week period I bought another project piano and really didn't have room for the old upright.

I suppose time is a factor in these sorts of things, and sometimes not... smile

Good luck!

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2226616 - 02/05/14 09:27 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21398
Loc: Oakland
My father bought a house that way, but it took more than 4 weeks before the owner called him back.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2227106 - 02/06/14 06:11 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: thetandyman]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Good advice, thank you

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#2227108 - 02/06/14 06:12 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: terminaldegree]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Originally Posted By: terminaldegree
[quote=phrygian]

...well that, and if you want to buy my Bechstein you'll need more than $14,000 to do it!


:-) haha

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#2227109 - 02/06/14 06:13 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: Rickster]
phrygian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/18/13
Posts: 223
Thanks Rick!

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#2227710 - 02/07/14 11:25 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
j&j Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 444
Loc: Southwest
Ready cash in hand and a trusted Piano tech that can do a full inspection on the piano go a long way in negotiation. Be ready to walk and wait for a call back.

Best of Luck - a pristine C7 sure is nice
_________________________
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Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working." Pablo Picasso

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#2227945 - 02/08/14 03:56 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17927
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: phrygian
Hi everyone-

A private seller in Northern California is selling a 1992 Yamaha C7, "F" secondary series (the letter before the serial #) for $29,000. I'm interested in going to try it out (2 hours away). Based on my research, this price seems really high. I've told them this and asked if their price is negotiable, and they said they would take $1,000 off, (which again, doesn't seem like enough.) According to the seller, the piano is in pristine condition with little use time. I'd like to build up some bargaining power & would like to bounce this off you guys to get an idea of what a fair price would be (or even a range) for a C7 of this vintage & condition, so if I go down there, and the piano checks out, I can at least have some credible figures in my head.
I know there is a depreciation chart somewhere but I can't seem to find it.
Anyone have any thoughts?

thanks a million


In that situation, I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. When a private seller says a piano is in "pristine" condition, one has to ask what one knows about the seller and what one knows about what the seller knows about pianos? "Pristine" may mean
- rarely played, hence
- never tuned and never serviced
- not maintained (not needed because it was rarely played)
- housed in less than ideal conditions (temperature/humidity fluctuations over time can wreak havoc with an un-serviced piano).

Ask why a twenty-two year old piano is in "pristine" condition.
Why was it purchased it if was never played?

If you think it's worth the drive, look at the piano, play it and then decide if you want to have a tech look at it. Record the serial number and check it out to find out if the date of manufacture is as claimed. Only if the tech gives a thumbs up, would I make an offer based on my research and what the tech thinks of the worth of the instrument.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#2228005 - 02/08/14 05:52 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3455
Loc: US
What Bruce said!

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#2228069 - 02/08/14 07:54 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
larrybrd Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Check out this one in the sacramento area. https://sacramento.craigslist.org/msg/4323297930.html

A 1989 C7 for $14900.

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#2228128 - 02/08/14 09:24 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3799
Loc: North Carolina
First rule of buying: Get the seller to see that you're interested before talking about price.
Second rule: He who has time wins. (Some would make this the first rule.)

So before you spend your money, spend your time. Go see the piano. If you like it, arrange for a technician to evaluate it.

Days pass. Make a second visit with the technician. If the piano needs minor work, allow the technician to say so in the seller's presence. (But if it needs major work, skip it.)

If the piano (mostly) checks out to his and your satisfaction, show the seller your interest ... but make it clear that you're looking at other pianos.

Days pass. Then make an offer over the phone.

Time is on your side. Spend it.

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#2228175 - 02/08/14 10:59 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
musicpassion Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/12
Posts: 922
Loc: California, USA
Condition is everything on a used instrument, and the fact that it wasn't played doesn't mean it's in wonderful condition as the seller is trying to imply. Instruments age whether they are played or not. Sometimes it seems like the good instruments are played, while the mediocre and lousy ones sit around holding photographs and fishbowls. There's even some logic to this... it takes a real musician with good ears to select an instrument. And they're gonna play it.

Anyway, enough rambling. In Northern CA, that price is sky high. Reality check: it's a 22 year old Yamaha. Might knock a 1,000 off? Try 10,000. Might still be overpriced.
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#2228183 - 02/08/14 11:18 PM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Nash. Piano Rescue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 384
Loc: East Nashville,TN Scottsville...
Lots of cash makes people these days nervous. I would have them meet me in a bank and I would call ahead to make sure they have extra security available. Some states like Tennessee have limitations on what you can carry with you and you will need documentation prepared in advance along with that cash unless you want to donate it to the state police in a traffic stop.

A couple years ago we sold a piano on consignment and the owner wanted his take paid in 5 dollar bills, which took two days of prep by the bank. 8K in 5 dollars bills and he sat there at the window with his little pen marking each note.

I very rarely take cash anymore on transactions over 500 dollars unless I am meeting someone at a bank. Too dangerous ! I prefer square for everything even with the percentage they take.
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#2228318 - 02/09/14 09:42 AM Re: Anyone? Fair price- 1992 pristine Yamaha C7 [Re: phrygian]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8472
Loc: Georgia, USA
Originally Posted By: Nash.PianoRescue
Lots of cash makes people these days nervous. I would have them meet me in a bank and I would call ahead to make sure they have extra security available. Some states like Tennessee have limitations on what you can carry with you and you will need documentation prepared in advance along with that cash unless you want to donate it to the state police in a traffic stop.

I wasn't going to say anything, but it is same way here in Ga. If you get pulled over by law enforcement and they discover that you have a large amount of cash on your person, or in the vehicle, they can confiscate it, if they so choose; I don't remember what the limit is, but, as with a lot of law enforcement officers, it is up to the individual officer whether they want to proceed with the law, or accept the persons reason for having a large amount of cash.

You can't blame the officer, I suppose; a lot illegal activity also involves large amounts of cash.

By the same token, banks too have new regulations regarding depositing large amounts of cash. My youngest son is into hot-rods… high performance cars. He sold one of his hot-rods a while back and the buyer paid in cash. When my son went to deposit the money in his bank account, he had to fill out a form stating why he had the large amount of cash. Seems like an invasion of privacy to me, but it is what it is… I guess the honest have to suffer because of the crooks.

When I purchased my C7 (the most expensive piano I have purchased) I asked the owners if they preferred cash or a cashier’s check. Oddly enough, they preferred a cashier’s check.

On the other hand, I do think more and more sales transactions between private individuals are done with cash, even with big-ticket items like pianos, these days.

Lots of good suggestions on buying expensive pre-owned pianos in this thread.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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