Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Biggest pitch raise I've ever done. What's yours?

Evans Bros Ingersoll Ontario.

#9936 1909 according to the atlas.

Moved once about 10 years ago, from the house it was in when originally bought.

Completely original. A few bridle straps falling apart. Some wear to indicate the piano was played a lot for about 20 years somewhere in it's history.

3/4 plate open face pin block.

Very little dust and debris inside, leading me to believe the people were hypochondriacs or someone cleaned it, a tuner, 30 years ago?

Well it was a major third flat. C4 was G#3. That is 400 cents flat I believe.

I have never seen anything like it in my life. 28 years of piano tuner tech and technician and 40 of piano playing.

So I set tunelab on pitch raise. The poor machine could not figure anything out. It listens to partials, and if they are that way off, it does not even know where it is.

So... I took out my fork. Estimated about 20 cents above it. and tuned all the As

From there I did a rough pitch raise just using intervals.

At this point I was still about 20 cents flat overall.

I then used tunelab using the pitch raise (it was still calling me to over pull by anything between 7 and 10 cents) being extra careful to have nice unisons, even though they beat wildly with the previously tuned octaves and other intervals.

The result was a piano at pitch (no broken strings) And I was super happy.

But I still wonder. How did it get that low? 400 cents!!!

I've seen plenty at 150 or even 200 flat. But never 400 on a piano that was properly built, solid, like they made then back then.

Full set of Ivories and only one small chip on C6.

I asked how the piano was being maintained, and the owner told me not since 30 years.

It really is a mystery. The pin block is right in your face, not separated from the sides, perfect condition. Dirt on the strings, no rust. A few very insignificant cracks in the soundboard, bridges built to last.

I guess I must have a preconceived notion that pianos left to themselves in ideal conditions will only go flat by about 200 cents.

Anyways. They don't build pianos like that anymore, and given my reliance on tunelab for this job, I probably ended up with reverse well.

1/2 step flat, give or take.

So 100 cents.

While I was going at it, I seriously considered that some tuner had done it purposely.

It felt like I was restringing a piano.

Yes, several whole tones flat. It happens. Chip tuning first, followed by pitch raise...

Wow. The worst I've ever done was ~150 cents flat.

I did a pitch raise on a family friend's old clunker. It was over 400 cents flat. It was so old and brittle, I didn't dare raise it to A440. I ended up tuning it one semitone down, which turned out ok because the guy who lived there liked to tune his guitars down a semitone too! Made jam sessions easy!

Half an octave in the treble, about 400 cents in the bass, your guess is as good as mine in the treble. Blind chip raise to begin with. It was like I'd just installed the strings! It was a 125 year old pub piano, had probably sat in the corner of that pub during every change of landlord for the last half century without being tuned.

.
HYPOCHONDRIACS!!! LOL!!!
.

HW

I once raised a harpsichord up an octave. Some idiot tuner thought the 4 foot stop was supposed to speak at the same pitch as the 8 foot stop.

300 cents for me. It was a huge old Whitney upright. I've had others at 200 cents, too.

I have noticed that old pianos that need a gignormous pitch raise work out very well. I think the strings have more elasticity due to not having been at tension. They tune like a much younger piano. They don't have that dry, brittle, touchy feel to them.

About a minor third, or 300 cents, is the worst I've seen. It was a spinet, but I don't even remember the make. Unmaintained for no-one-knew-how-many years. But that was definitely unusual. I've run into several other 100-150 cent pitch raise jobs, but I'd have to agree that it takes something special for them to get worse than that.

Maybe pianos in drier/colder climates are more likely to continue going flat instead of eventually leveling out? Or maybe it has to do with pianos that were put in storage at one point in their life. Or maybe it has to do with the manufacturing of the pinblock. Or maybe it's just completely random . . .

I think the biggest pitch raise I have done was a little more than 200 cents flat. That was an interesting day. No broken strings though!

The piano was a small Hamilton grand. When I walked in the house, the customer, who was in his 90's, proudly stated that the piano had been sitting in that same spot since it was purchased new in 1948. I asked him when it had been tuned last, and he replied "Never". It was a couple whole tones flat.

I had an old upright once that was about the same as yours. When I encounter a piano that is more than 100 cents off, instead of trying to overpull with Tunelab, I will pull it up to A-440 first and then on the next pass have Tunelab overpull it. I see where all the A's are to get an idea of where the pitch is generally sitting. I then start at the break and tune to the top and then from the break down to the bottom. I've had pretty good success with this method. On most pianos, when I come back to them next year or six months are very close to where I left them. I don't know if this is the best procedure or not. I would be interested to see what others think.

A major third - 400 cents - is the most I've done. I've come across pianos lower, but not of a quality or state to justify attempting to tune them.

I read in an old, old book to start a big pitch raise at the lowest note and work upwards to the highest note.

I last did a pitch raise of this nature 4-5 years ago on an old player while the player techs had the action out.

If it is a half step flat, simply tune the A0 to the A#0 continuing up without wedges, exaggerating a bit by judgement if the treble is even flatter, (it usually is in these cases.

I always pull a pitch raise to 442 so that there's no more pitch raising on subsequent tunings, therefore building stability. Just like a new piano.

Similarly if it's a whole step, tune A to B, B to C# etc. you can expect to tune at teast three times and a return visit although I have often been amazed at the stability a month later. Of course, for a minor third, tuneA to C. Etc.

Starting at the bottom is supposed to be safer and better for stability. Our piano construction experts can answer that one for us.

I would not overpull a piano much above 444, particularly an old one. I would rather do a couple more rough tunings.

Some do silent tunings, using one hand on the tuning tip and the other on the handle for speed between pin changes. An experienced tuner knows how much to pull.

Great information on this thread, thank you
everyone.

I may be tuning a piano that hasn't been tuned in 8
years, so some of this info could be useful.

Like some other people, I charge extra money if
the piano is more than 10 cents out of tune, but
really, aren't most of the tuning jobs out there
on pianos that need a pitch raise? That's been
my case so far....but I'm still green at this...and
I don't have regular customers yet....

rxd, what was the old old book?

Most wise especially considering the condition of the bridges in these old instruments. The shock of too much overpull can be damaging.

I wish I could remember those old books, David, I wish I could.

The Henry Watson music library in Manchester had archives on piano technology. A great resource from the heyday of piano manufacturing. I used it in the '60's. Last time I visited, Nothing seemed to remain of it.

There was also a piano store I worked for there that had a Dickensian back room full of old copies of "the pianomaker" from the early 1900's that I used to borrow and devour. All gone now.