Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds
Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds with Emphasis on the Piano
Learn More

or
Buy This Book on Amazon.com
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Pianoteq
Who's Online
172 registered (ajames, A Guy, accordeur, 49 invisible), 1815 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2226690 - 02/06/14 12:12 AM What Knuckle Squeaks Where?
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2530
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I was thinking about what is actually vibrating when we hear the little "squeak" that knuckles sometimes make.

Is it the wood of the repetition lever? Or is it the buckskin/ecsaine?
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
(ad PTG 757) The Value of PTG Membership
The Value of a PTG Membership
#2226696 - 02/06/14 12:28 AM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
rysowers Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2589
Loc: Olympia, WA
Interesting question Ed! I never thought of it before. I think it must be the wood, as I can imagine it heaving a resonate frequency of some kind, unlike the knuckle which seems naturally damped.

But I think it would be the jack itself as opposed to the rep lever, since the squeak happens at when the jack starts to rotate.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top
#2226780 - 02/06/14 04:52 AM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Adypiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/02/12
Posts: 49
Loc: Surrey, UK
I'm thinking the leather of the roller is causing the jack to vibrate, in the same way as a violin bow on strings.
_________________________
Started work at the BlŁthner piano re-building workshop in Perivale, UK, in 1989. Self employed since 2000. Learning something new about pianos every day... smile

http://www.hamiltonpianos.com/

Top
#2226800 - 02/06/14 06:33 AM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2117
Loc: Suffolk, England
Passing thought, leather can squeak when polishing a car.

PS Skin on Glass


Edited by Withindale (02/06/14 05:10 PM)
Edit Reason: PS
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#2227888 - 02/08/14 12:32 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
SMHaley Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 983
Loc: Seattle
In any case wouldn't it suggest there is friction to be dealt with?
_________________________
PTG Associate
Pipe Organ Builder
Chief Instrument Technician, Chancel Arts
Church Music Professional
AA Music Arts 2001, BM Organ, Choral 2005


Baldwin F 1960 (146256)
Zuckermann Flemish Single

Top
#2227912 - 02/08/14 02:27 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2530
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
I don't see how the jack would be capable of being driven at the range of frequencies and amplitudes that comprise the squeak.

In the case of waxing a car the cloth is the bow and the surface of the car is both the string and soundboard.

I wonder if the vibrating component is the sides of the rep lever where the jack window is.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2227918 - 02/08/14 02:39 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Johnkie Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/11
Posts: 744
Loc: England
I would consider the squeak to be a direct result of the frequency of the air being disturbed as both surfaces interact due to friction rather than either the leather or jack specifically.
_________________________
Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 49 years in the United Kingdom
and Member of the Pianoforte Tuners' Association (London)
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com

Top
#2227940 - 02/08/14 03:54 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1541
Loc: Old Hangtown California
The nap of the buckskin pointing away from jack escapement, favoring return may contribute??
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

Top
#2228059 - 02/08/14 07:31 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 2117
Loc: Suffolk, England
Fingers can squeak when rubbed against CD cases and through wet hair. Sounds like Johnkie and SM Haley are on the right track!
_________________________
Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 55" upright
Ibach, 1922 49" upright (project piano)

Top
#2228136 - 02/08/14 09:43 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2530
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
It seems like one, either the cloth or the wood surface, is the driver and the other is the soundboard. I suppose both could be vibrating but that would be most likely to produce two distinct ranges of pitch in the squeak.

Come to think of it the squeak often does have a lower "roarrrk" at the start of key motion and a continuous "screek" sound during key motion. But maybe I am hearing things.
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

Top
#2228156 - 02/08/14 10:14 PM Re: What Knuckle Squeaks Where? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]
rysowers Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2589
Loc: Olympia, WA
It would be easy enough to adjust the jack high in the rep window so that the rep lever is not in contact with the knuckle through let-off. If the squeak persists it would prove that the rep lever is not responsible. You could also do the opposite by adjusting the rep lever much higher than the jack and see how the squeak is effected.
_________________________
Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
NAMM Show 2015 Follow Up!
-------------------

Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Too Many Pieces at the Ragged Boundary of Playing Ability?
by ClsscLib
1 minute 38 seconds ago
Who says improvisation can't exist in the classical genre?
by marcuslchoi
58 minutes 43 seconds ago
Should I buy used small upright or big upright?
by thomas81
Today at 11:04 AM
Promotional pens?
by RonTuner
Today at 10:20 AM
New piano coming today!
by TwoSnowflakes
Today at 10:17 AM
Forum Stats
77932 Members
42 Forums
161064 Topics
2365905 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission