Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds
Spectral Analysis of Musical Sounds with Emphasis on the Piano
Learn More

or
Buy This Book on Amazon.com
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Pianoteq
Who's Online
181 registered (ajames, accordeur, alans, ADS63, 44 invisible), 1796 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2230893 - 02/13/14 10:48 AM Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to.
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 208
This is not blaming the Piano player, I hear it all the time. They take a nice and even song, then decide to drop a lot of flare that just ruins it for me.

Some what of an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tgCpyxJuO8 - The sound is great From 2:35 until 2:42, an then it just seems like they unnecessarily decide to throw in a bunch of unneeded notes (to my ear).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUfgHl68qMI - 1:56->206

I seem to like Music that maintains a steady speed, doesn't have a lot of flare. I tend to enjoy the notes that live in the bottom 2/3rds of a Piano.

Is this just me not liking it when someone is deviating from what I have established of the norm of the piece?

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2230898 - 02/13/14 10:56 AM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 208
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be condescending. I am as basic as they come.

However, there is a pattern in Music to throw random groups of fast playing of notes, in a piece that spends most of its time not being that way. And it's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

For all I know, it's the original music and not the Piano player doing it, but I really want to know what it's called.


Edited by ShiverMeTimbres (02/13/14 11:00 AM)

Top
#2230925 - 02/13/14 11:58 AM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Sand Tiger Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/25/12
Posts: 1113
Loc: Southern California
Ornaments in music, runs in voice, are a preference. Some folks prefer a basic, bare bones, perhaps a pure approach. Many others, like the ornaments, the runs, the fills, and vote with their ears (and pocket books).

There are few rights or wrongs in music. Each person might like or dislike different things. Those on the edges, in the small groups, might have a lot of things that they don't like, that the masses do like.
_________________________
my piano uploads

Top
#2230940 - 02/13/14 12:30 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: Sand Tiger]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 208
That's EXACTLY, what I was wanting to know, thanks smile

Ornaments.

I'm sure there are times when ornaments may contribute to a better sounding piece. Generally to me, it is basically this.

Top
#2231003 - 02/13/14 02:27 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Pathbreaker Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/04
Posts: 1136
Loc: Massachusetts
In some music for piano the ornaments are necessary. They will make more sense if you can understand the structure of the piece well enough that you know which notes are fundamental and which are ornamental. I believe almost all instruments are intended to approximate the human voice. The ornaments provide the necessary breathing and liveliness that the piano is otherwise incapable of producing. The style of ornaments and whether or not they feel like natural breathing or sighing depends on the skill and artistry of the performer. Just my general opinion, of course.

This is not to say that plenty of performers or composers have more style than substance. That of course happens plenty often!

Top
#2231029 - 02/13/14 03:02 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
If one is going to disagree with doing ornaments, just how far does that go? One could argue that an entire piece is an ornament.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2231039 - 02/13/14 03:31 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
hreichgott Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 1331
Loc: western MA, USA
Having listened to those videos, I think what you dislike is random noodling for no musical reason. Can't say I blame you laugh

What do you think of these much more intelligently composed decorative passages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUGKoMkq4I
(decorative passage starts at 3:54 and is built on everything that came before)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Ym84u0EQQ
(decorative passage at 0:49 and similar)
_________________________
Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com
Working on: Lots of silent movie music laugh
Daily 16th notes: Chopin Op. 10 no. 2, Pischna
I love Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and new music

Top
#2231064 - 02/13/14 04:25 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: hreichgott]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 208
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Having listened to those videos, I think what you dislike is random noodling for no musical reason. Can't say I blame you laugh

What do you think of these much more intelligently composed decorative passages:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUGKoMkq4I
(decorative passage starts at 3:54 and is built on everything that came before)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Ym84u0EQQ
(decorative passage at 0:49 and similar)


I listened to Pollini Beethoven Appassionata 2 without watching the screen. You're right, he's building upon it and it actually sounds like it is meant to be a stepping stone in the progression (if I am characterizing that right).

As for Daniil Trifonov - F. Chopin Impromptu in F-sharp major op. 36, 0:49->0:50 I didn't really find added value to the piece, 0:56 started off okay, but what he does with it in 0:57 was making me strain to keep interest.

But I do understand the difference now between Random Noodling and Ornament, but sometimes it seems to blur for me.

Top
#2231089 - 02/13/14 05:06 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Michael Martinez Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/22/12
Posts: 516
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Having listened to those videos, I think what you dislike is random noodling for no musical reason. Can't say I blame you laugh



Yeah except none of the clips in the OP's vids are random noodling.

Here's an example of truly random noodling without much structure (2:25 - 2:55):

2:25 - 2:55


Edited by Michael Martinez (02/13/14 05:06 PM)
_________________________
Music Educator, Computer Engineer, avid reader of literature, enjoyer of the outdoors
http://www.michael--martinez.com/music/

Top
#2231100 - 02/13/14 05:13 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: Michael Martinez]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 208
Originally Posted By: Michael Martinez
Here's an example of truly random noodling without much structure (2:25 - 2:55)


Wow. 2:34 was my, "Okay, this is enough" mark.


Edited by ShiverMeTimbres (02/13/14 05:14 PM)

Top
#2231115 - 02/13/14 05:36 PM Re: Help me understand what it is, I'm intolerant to. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7947
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: ShiverMeTimbres
I listened to Pollini Beethoven Appassionata 2 without watching the screen. You're right, he's building upon it and it actually sounds like it is meant to be a stepping stone in the progression (if I am characterizing that right).

As for Daniil Trifonov - F. Chopin Impromptu in F-sharp major op. 36, 0:49->0:50 I didn't really find added value to the piece, 0:56 started off okay, but what he does with it in 0:57 was making me strain to keep interest.

Okay, now I see what the problem is.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
NAMM Show 2015 Follow Up!
-------------------

Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai: new cn25 or used ca51?
by Bellicapelli
01/29/15 02:07 PM
what is the very best epiano software collection?
by ZeroZero
01/29/15 01:44 PM
yamaha u1 or u3 help!?
by ymaeel
01/29/15 01:19 PM
AcustiX Steinway Piano III review
by xplorr
01/29/15 12:22 PM
Yamaha CLP 535 - opinions
by Kerrrmit
01/29/15 11:57 AM
Forum Stats
77915 Members
42 Forums
161027 Topics
2365535 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission