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#2230989 - 02/13/14 01:54 PM Used Yamaha CP4. Should I?
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
I was introduced to an unfortunate fellow at work today that needs to liquidate many of his possession as a result of a pending divorce. One of many musical and studio items he has for sale is a Yamaha CP4 that he just bought around the holidays for gigs. Only used it a few times. I was told it is in perfect condition and he would give me first shot at it if I give him $1,700 cash and pick it up by noon tomorrow . Whoa, Its a lot of money for me but I can maybe swing it before his deadline. I will also have to sell my CP33 asap that I really like. $800 maybe???.
I liked the CP4 very much when I tried it briefly. Just trying to justify the cost. It's seems like a very good deal that makes it so hard to pass on. I am going to Guitar Center to demo it again in an hour or two before I call him tonight. I don't need it, but I want it. Does that make sense? In the meantime I ask you below

1. Is this a worthwhile deal or a reality check needed?
2. To the CP4 users, are you happy with it?

Any input, clarity, pros & cons is appreciated.

Thanks guys
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2231011 - 02/13/14 02:39 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
David Farley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 242
Loc: Illinois
You'd be getting a CP4 for the price of a CP40. I like my CP4 (switched up from a CP40) but I don't know how it compares to the CP33. Some people here seem to like the older models better for various reasons.

But I wouldn't buy it unless I could play the one he's actually selling first, regardless of why he's selling it and what condition he says it's in. If he was taking it to gigs he only needed to drop it once...

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#2231062 - 02/13/14 04:24 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Thank You, David. Yes, CP33 sounds great to me. But then I listen to this CP4 demo at Sweetwater and it's sounds fantastic, better than any $2000 Dp demo I've heard including Roland rd700nx or rd800. (This is the demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbnO-ycVbY) Much better than CP33, however, it is a professional studio setup. I have become very connected to my CP33 and Im hoping it will only be a better experience on the CP4. I recall loving the action on the GH3 more than the GH. Again, that's an opinion factor.

I will play it and inspect it for sure before I fork over $1,700. Maybe room for negotiation if not in perfect condition as described. Im also eyeballing a Fender Deluxe Strat he's offering. Maybe a package deal. Just have to watch my cash flow.

Regardless, would you shoot me a few pros and cons on the CP4? Sure would appreciate it. Or anyone else with that experienced a CP4. Thanks again!!!
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2231133 - 02/13/14 06:05 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
David Farley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 242
Loc: Illinois
What I like:

The keyboard feels great and was the primary reason I switched up. The CP40 is good, but the CP4 is noticeably better. The wooden keys seem a little gimmicky, but the CP4 has three sensors as opposed to two on the CP40.

I bought the CP40 because I already had a low-end Yamaha with the CPIII sample set and thought I'd be happy with that. But having the three different pianos (CFX, CPIII and S6) is really nice. They are quite different in tone, and it's fun to switch back and forth between them. Sometimes pieces that just don't sound right on one of the pianos suddenly sound right on another.

Interface is pretty easy for figuring out basic stuff and it's pretty easy to get to all the stuff you'd want to change fast. And the shortcuts are logical. Usually hitting shift-whatever-thing-you-want-to-change takes you right down to that thing.

Came with a good pedal that supports half-pedaling, so nothing to fool around with there.

Everything MIDI I've done with it (which hasn't been much) has worked just fine.

The compressor is something I use more than I thought I would when I'm playing through speakers. If you think it sounds kind of wheezy through the speakers, that's the thing to go to and start playing around with. (Also, the equalizer, etc.)

A couple things I don't like:

When you pick a new voice you get a hard transition. (Meaning, you'll have to restrike if you're holding down a key.) Only way to mix is with a layer.

Connections on the back are hard to see and get at, especially if it's up against something.

Keys are a little noisier than I expected, compared to the CP40.

No string resonance. This is a missing feature others have pointed out is available on comparable offerings from other piano makers, and Yamaha even has it in their new P255. Personally, I think it sounds fine the way it is. Nevertheless, it's something that's not there.

It has an AUX IN for play-through from an external device, but no way to mix it other than by shifting the volume up and down on the device. If you are using a portable device for MIDI and feeding it into the AUX IN you'll get line noise. I fixed this with a audio cable with some kind of built-in noise filter.

The documentation and what Yamaha has put online leaves something to be desired. I still haven't really figured out how the performance stuff works. Yes, it's all in the manuals, but it's all along the lines of "Oh, you already know how it works." That may be because it's a stage piano and not aimed primarily at home users. I still don't know what some of the cryptic abbreviations for the voices mean. Some detailed tutorials and examples from Yamaha would be great.

I've sometimes thought the mid-range (of the keyboard) sounds weak, but I believe this has more to do with speaker placement and I need to spend more time looking at that.

This sounds like I have a lot of complaints, but I actually really like this piano and play it every day.

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#2231145 - 02/13/14 06:37 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
I'll second what David Farley says. I have used mine for a few months now on gigs and other band member have commented about what an improvement it is over the FP-4 it replaced. last night someone commented about the killer Rhodes sound (again). Add to that is the reasonable weight and size. One other issue I've had is accidentally changing the performance (tone) while playing, but that can be prevented with the panel lock button.

Regarding the price, I paid just a little more than your price for a brand new one when Musicians Friend had a 15% off sale, and I have the manufacturer's warrantee, which may or may not extend to you if you buy a used one.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2231158 - 02/13/14 07:28 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Thank you both very much for response. I just got back from G Center and the CP4 feels and sounds fantastic. I also played a new P255 which was very nice but not a whole better than my CP33. It sounded and felt the same as my CP33 but the 3 band EQ was a very nice feature. If CP33 had that it would sound identical. beautiful design but aside of that I cant tell a significant difference between CP33 and P255 (via headphones).

I plan to buy the CP4 tomorrow based on what I heard and felt tonight. Not best looking piano but who cares. It's amazing action and sound trumps out esthetics instantly. Even more so after comparing it to RD700NX. but RD700nx is a beauty in esthetics.

One big question. I can not hear or sense the missing string resonance from the CP4 or any other digital piano that has it. The CP4 sounds better than the RD700nx I demoed it tonight. What am I missing? Is string resonance a gimmick that only dog ears can hear? I wont buy it if string resonance is important. But I need to know what I should be hearing. Will my guests and audience notice that missing sting resonance when I'm performing?
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2231184 - 02/13/14 08:35 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
fizikisto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 278
Loc: Hernando, MS
Coon Dog,
Hold down a C without playing it (gently press it down so that it doesn't play, and hold it) then hit a different C an octave or two up with a nice staccato tap. If the piano emulates string resonance, you'll hear the note that you're holding down ringing in sympathy. If you hit a note that is not harmonically related, say a C#, you won't hear that ringing. This emulates the behavior of an acoustic piano where the vibration of one string can excite other strings that are harmonically related to it to vibrate in sympathy. This comes into play mostly when you're holding down the sustain pedal (with the dampers raised, all the strings are free to vibrate in sympathy, not just the ones you're pressing down). This makes for a much fuller sound.

Do you need it? No. If you love the piano sound and don't feel anything is missing, obviously you don't need it. It's highly dubious that any of your audience will notice its lack either. Is it just a gimmick? No, it definitely adds to the realism of the sounds. If you practice on a piano that can emulate it, play some passages that make good use of the sustain pedal with the resonance emulation toggled on and off, you'll likely notice the difference. But it's an enhancement, not a necessity (at least in my opinion).

Warm Regards.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha P-250

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#2231410 - 02/14/14 09:42 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coker]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Originally Posted By: Coker

Regarding the price, I paid just a little more than your price for a brand new one when Musicians Friend had a 15% off sale, and I have the manufacturer's warrantee, which may or may not extend to you if you buy a used one.


You make a good point. I see everyone is doing a 15% off Presidents Day sale. That would make it $1,869. It might be worth the extra $169 for brand new CP4 w full warranty. Plus I'm removing myself for an uncomfortable divorce situation. I paid $850 for my CP33 less than 3 months ago with a 15% off deal. I am going to see what it's trade value is a G Center. Otherwise I will post it on CL.

I have to make a decision in next few hours. Buy used CP4 $1700, or Buy new CP4 $1869, or just keep my CP33. As much as I like the CP33, the CP4 is something real special. Mostly, I agree with David Farley that having 3 different pianos is really nice. To quote myself from a previous post "All I am looking for #1: best key action as possible>> absolute must! #2: Great piano sound. That's it." Well, it looks like I fell into GAS trap. I should just be happy with my tried-and-true CP33. Oh well.
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2231508 - 02/14/14 12:54 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Note, too, that if you decide to buy new, you can hold off until a future 15% off sale and keep considering your options... Maybe you can even try one before buying it.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2231509 - 02/14/14 12:56 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
or, to make matters more complicated, you could try to pay less for the used CP-4.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2231515 - 02/14/14 01:08 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
briansaddleback Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/14
Posts: 193
At the end of the day you're still giving up $1700 for something good deal or not. It is a lot of money. You're happy with your current piano. Keep playing that and fight the right battle another day.
_________________________

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#2231533 - 02/14/14 01:35 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
36251 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 718
I look at like if you can get $1700 or even $1600 in a month, then just go for it if it's your dream dp.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2231805 - 02/14/14 11:48 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1717
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
If you like the Yamaha sound and can live with its issues (stretching,looping, string res etc) and it seems you do.
Then its a no brainer ...if its as described ...get it.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#2231905 - 02/15/14 07:10 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Thank you all. After some back and forth, I ended up buying the the used CP4 for $1600. Below is the story if you care. It's somewhat insightful. Otherwise, thank you for your comments. I always appreciate you guys being there when I need advice.


__________

I informed the seller of the used CP4 that I was not interested and told him that for extra $169 I plan to buy a brand new CP4 at G Center. He was rather distraught with my decision and reluctantly asked if I would do $1,600. When he said that I had to go see it and play it. I got to his house and he had all boxed up in original packaging which I was happy to see. He actually had everything boxed up and ready to move out this weekend. We open the box and took it out and looked perfect - not a mark on it. He showed me the paperwork was purchased December at Sweetwater for $1,979. I asked him if this was a demo or an open box purchase and said absolutely not. He told me he deals with the same rep at Sweetwater for many years and he gives him a 10% discount on most high-end or bulk purchases because he's a frequent customer for years. I felt good about that because I felt like I was kicking a guy while he was down. He also mentioned to ALWAYS ask for a discount wherever you buy gear. You will at least get 6-10% off of all the popular retailers if you ask.

At this point Im pretty excited, but still had to know the millage on his CP4. He used it for two holiday dinner parties with his jazz trio. That's it! He said it replaced his RD700NX and was intended to be used for all gigs next couple years, but now he needs to relocate and start from scratch.

FWIW: he said that he favors the "piano" sound and action on the CP4 over the RD700NX, but likes the navigation and some additional voices of RD700NX much better than CP4. He said the CP4 was much lighter and easy to move around. Plus he and his trio find the piano sound better live than RD700NX. He also just sold his favorite babies, his studio keyboards Kurzweil PC3K and something Dave Smith. He did say the Kurzweil was a significant cut above Roland and Yamaha in every way. I didnít get into with him why.

Anyway, I had my headphones with me and plugged in the CP4. Simply, it sounds and feels absolutely amazing. I thought the CP33 was pretty damn good, but CP4, off the chart incredible. Unfortunately I have nothing else to compare it to aside of my Cp33. The default piano is so much richer in tone, depth, and width. I LOVE the onboard EQ. Im surprised so many folks on the forum donít care much for the CP4. Sheís not the best looking, but the sound is intoxicating. You really have to close your eyes and just play to really appreciate it. It was also helpful that he gave me a 15-20 minute tutorial on adjusting and editing to get the best sounds. What an amazing difference it is to demo a digital piano with a pro outside of a G Center. After his tutorial, I handed him $1,600 cash. He looked so relieved and I could not look happier. Plus he threw-in the Yamaha music rest and volume pedal that goes with it. Nice to have a music rest for the iPad.

I could not be happier with the CP4. Im sure overtime I will find some faults, but it just feels like a good fit for me. Plus, I am one of those people that prefer the Yamaha sound. I put my CP33 is on CL for $800 last night. Already have someone coming to see it this afternoon plus a one more inquiry. In the end, I feel that I got a good deal and absolutely love the CP4.

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#2231911 - 02/15/14 07:40 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8854
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Great story - congrats!

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2231915 - 02/15/14 07:53 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
fizikisto Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 278
Loc: Hernando, MS
Sounds like you got a great deal, and you were able to help someone out. Can't ask for better than that! In any case, Congratulations! Hope that your new board gives you many years of joy!

Warm Regards,
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Yamaha P-250

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#2231923 - 02/15/14 08:05 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/31/11
Posts: 195
Loc: Connecticut,USA
Great story! Have fun with it.
_________________________
Yamaha CP4, Kawai CA93

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#2231983 - 02/15/14 10:58 AM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
David Farley Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 242
Loc: Illinois
Congratulations!

Speaking of the design, there actually is a rationale for how it looks. It's supposed to be a throwback to the CP70 and CP80 (without the weight).

http://joseacreative.com/?p=2770

More here, but this page is all Adobe Flash.

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/design/synapses/product/list/?productId=640&lng=en

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#2232025 - 02/15/14 12:01 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: David Farley]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Originally Posted By: David Farley
Congratulations!

Speaking of the design, there actually is a rationale for how it looks. It's supposed to be a throwback to the CP70 and CP80 (without the weight).

http://joseacreative.com/?p=2770

More here, but this page is all Adobe Flash.

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/design/synapses/product/list/?productId=640&lng=en


Thank You!

Great links, David. Very interesting. I think the CP4 is a timeless style and I like the looks very much. I love the rock solid boxy look of the CP33 and this very similar. I like this look better than the RD800 for sure, but I tend to be more conservative than contemporary or flashy. However, RD700NX is much better looking than RD800 IMO. Mostly, looks mean nothing I suppose. If looks truly mattered the Casio PX-5S would be doomed ;-)
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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#2232156 - 02/15/14 04:29 PM Re: Used Yamaha CP4. Should I? [Re: Coondog]
Coondog Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 76
Follow up. I just sold my CP33 for $800 no problem. Keep in mind that it is less than 3 months old and in brand new condition with box and papers. As much as I love my CP4, I must admit I miss my CP33 in some ways; respectable sound, simplicity, playability, durability, affordability, outstanding quality, etc. Considering everything mentioned, it just might be one of the best digital pianos ever made. It was a pleasure to own one. Long live the CP33!
_________________________
Kawai MP7
Yamaha CP4 (sold and happy it's gone)
Yamaha CP33 (sold and wish I never did)
Young Chang Y118 (sold)
--------------------
Gibson Acoustic J35
Guild Starfire IV

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