Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
Who's Online
110 registered (ando, 36251, anamnesis, accordeur, Alegretto, 24 invisible), 1452 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2231880 - 02/15/14 05:07 AM Low frequency effects used in piano pieces.
subcontra Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 29
I want to know how composers tried to make certain passages sound different by using certain intervals to create low frequency effects. I know one work has a power chord using the lowest B and F# notes creating a 64ft effect, alternating with an E power chord creating a 32ft effect. A piano concerto has a series of perfect fifths using the lowest C# (I forget the name). Rachmaninoff in his famous Prelude in C# Minor has some big chords using perfect fifths in the bass. Are there other works using fifths and fourths in the lowest registers, and, have other composers also used intervals other than the fourth or fifth to get those LF effects as well? Does the use of narrower intervals to get the desired LF effects have much value, or do they detract from the harmony meant to exist in a passage or piece? I ask these questions as I'm wanting to use notes even below the Bosendorfer Imperial, and I find myself racing towards octaves even I wouldn't use, nor would the MIDI standard support.


Edited by subcontra (02/15/14 05:23 AM)

Top
Piano & Music Acc. / Sheet Music


Sheet Music Plus Homepage
#2232515 - 02/16/14 10:30 AM Re: Low frequency effects used in piano pieces. [Re: subcontra]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2793
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Hmmm, interesting question. Do I want to give away any secrets? I don't know if they're secrets, but perhaps a bit of discussion is in order. I like open fifths in the bass, but I don't think they really produce the suboctave effects you mentioned. They are a distinct sound and in that manner are useful. I also enjoy an open fifth with a ninth on top. Another thing I like is first inversion chords in the left hand. It takes a big hand to play them as I usually make the root the second note up then the fifth so the span is a tenth. The challenge is it's easy to make things sound muddy, too many notes too close together leads to a jumble of harmonics (which is why I spread out that first inversion chord). Close harmony in the bass can be an interesting sound effect but it's not as useful harmonically.

Top
#2236234 - 02/23/14 05:08 AM Re: Low frequency effects used in piano pieces. [Re: subcontra]
kdjupdal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 24
Like Steve says, it will not give the effect you want. This trick works on a pipe organ, but not on a piano.

I think the reason for this is the pattern of partials (overtones) that a pianostring gives. The organ pipes (used for this kind of effect) are flutes with very few overtones, similar to sine wave. In contrast, a pianotone has a lot of overtones in a complex pattern. The overtones will conflict with each other creating a very dissonant noisy sound.

I once analysed and used the 27 strongest partials of the low A of a grand piano in a composition. Here are the partials, transcribed to notes:
http://karstein.djupdal.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/akkord-til-pianospill.gif

There are some interesting things to note (and these things are well known in piano acoustics):
-- The pianotone gives a rich spectre with a lot of overtones
-- the 1st and 2nd partial are not present (at least not strong enough). Meaning when you play the low A you dont actually hear the fundamental of the note, only the overtones
-- The spectre is inharmonic, meaning a pianotone is actually dissonant in itself

Top
#2236235 - 02/23/14 05:16 AM Re: Low frequency effects used in piano pieces. [Re: subcontra]
kdjupdal Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 24
Another answer for your question...
Originally Posted By: subcontra
I want to know how composers tried to make certain passages sound different by using certain intervals to create low frequency effects.


Ravel had one interesting trick that always fascinated me: knowing that the ear can not distinguish pitch so easily in the low register, he used the low A as a substitute for the G# that doesnŽt exist on an ordinary piano. So e.g. A0-G#1 sounds like the octave G#0-G#1. See "Jeaux dŽeau" and "Scarbo", and maybe more pieces.

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Upright - felt under bridle strap hole necessary?
by JoeThePro
12/26/14 08:25 PM
most complicated song played on a toy piano?
by MrSnrub
12/26/14 06:14 PM
Casio PX-780 Problem with Ivory/Synthesia/Pian
oteq

by Rozzok
12/26/14 05:09 PM
In one word, what is Piano to you?
by juliantoha624
12/26/14 04:03 PM
High school piano accompanist
by MiguelSousa
12/26/14 01:51 PM
Forum Stats
77441 Members
42 Forums
160156 Topics
2351866 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission