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#2240979 - 03/03/14 10:16 PM harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
I started on this and was surprised by all the interesting 7th chords. I would not have expected to find major seventh chords and half diminished 7th chords in this, but they're there.

I'll post when I'm finished.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2240989 - 03/03/14 10:53 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 5055
Loc: USA
1) How does this belong at the Composer's Lounge?

2) We can look at the score ourselves, you know.

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#2241000 - 03/03/14 11:24 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Nikolas Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 5699
Loc: Europe
Joel,

Way to go on being nice!

1. Analysis is one of the most major tools in learning composition. So why on earth not?

2. Yes you can, as you could, for example, take a look at the manuals for certain software, instead of posting a string of questions one after the other... :P
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http://www.musica-ferrum.com

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#2241004 - 03/03/14 11:41 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
JoelW Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 5055
Loc: USA
You pinned me.

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#2241006 - 03/03/14 11:45 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8132
Loc: New York City
I think this post is quite appropriate.
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Regards,

Polyphonist

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#2241260 - 03/04/14 12:49 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Polyphonist]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
I finished it but I wrote it in my edition. I want to xerox it, rewrite the chords on a xerox copy so they're easier to read, and then upload that. Here are in my mind the highlights:

Bach, in the first four measures, gives us the tonic, an f# half diminished seventh, a B dominant seventh, and the tonic. However, he uses a chord progression leading to the relative major (G) later in the piece, but which immediately proceeds to a IV V I cadence back to e minor, so the G, which we thought was the destination, was just a stop on a III IV V I cadence. But it gets even weirder, because the tonic wasn't the destination either, Bach then goes on to a IV V I to C major, meaning the e minor was not a destination, but part of a new III IV V I cadence. There are also a large number of diminished chords in this piece.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2241778 - 03/05/14 04:27 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
I copied it over will upload tomorrow. I don't have access to a scanner today.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2242232 - 03/06/14 01:43 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Here it is:



_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243452 - 03/09/14 04:33 AM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
larryz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 127
Loc: sweden
I think the third measure should be a diminished vii chord, (Ddim7 in your jazz-notation?).
I wonder if the second measure couldn't be seen as a iv with an added sixth rather than a ii7 ?
cheers,

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#2243561 - 03/09/14 12:00 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: larryz]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Thanks I will look.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243568 - 03/09/14 12:23 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 822
Loc: Leicester, UK


With Bach voice leading and counterpoint count for a lot. That can be a problem for jazz chord symbols. Because they're not really meant to show voice leading.

If you reduce the 1st 4 measures the chords can look like the example above

So the 2nd measure could be F#m7b5 (inverted). Or it could be a 2nd inversion iv w/the F# on top as a passing tone. Either way it should be notated with extra figured bass symbols to indicate the inversion.

4
2

under the E would show F#m7b5 w/E in the bass.

6
4

Under the E would show Am with E in the bass (2nd inversion).


If you look at m2 as a iv chord with E in the bass the F# and the fast ornamental stuff that follows are passing stuff that connect the E (in the 1st measure) and G (in the 4th measure).

The other thing you might notice is how that E drops to D# in the bass and returns to E. And the B (in the tenor) goes up to C.

Playing any of these 4 voices in the example on its own can be helpful. And then compare the simplified voices what you hear in Bach's "full" version.

Hope this helps!



Edited by Mark Polishook (03/09/14 02:28 PM)
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PolishookPiano

mark@polishookpiano.com

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#2243660 - 03/09/14 02:22 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Mark Polishook]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark Polishook


With Bach voice leading and counterpoint count for a lot. That can be a problem for jazz chord symbols. Because they're not really meant to show voice leading.

If you reduce the 1st 4 measures the chords can look like the example above

So the 2nd measure could be F#m7b5 (inverted). Or it could be a 2nd inversion iv w/the F# on top as a passing tone. It's should be notated with extra figured bass symbols to indicate the inversion (but my computer can't do that ...)

If you look at m2 as a iv chord with E in the bass the F# and the fast ornamental stuff that follows are passing stuff that connect the E (in the 1st measure) and G (in the 4th measure).

The other thing you might notice is how that E drops to D# in the bass and returns to E. And the B (in the tenor) goes up to C.

Playing any of these 4 voices in the example on its own can be helpful. And then compare the simplified voices what you hear in Bach's "full" version.

Hope this helps!



I guess some of the chords are ambiguous then. I'll have to redo this. Thanks for the help.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243666 - 03/09/14 02:34 PM Re: harmonic analysis of bach wtc book 1 prelude 10 [Re: Hrodulf]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 822
Loc: Leicester, UK
Yes. Some can seem ambiguous. It comes down to knowing in the style how to recognise the chords used for points of departure or arrival and then which chords were used in between the departures and arrivals.
_________________________
PolishookPiano

mark@polishookpiano.com

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