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#2233135 - 02/17/14 12:27 PM My PX-350 thoughts so far.
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Full Disclosure:

I'm not a professional.
I'm not an intermediate.

I'm basic, by basic I mean, Leila Fletcher Book 2, think Lazy Pony. If you don't know what Lazy Pony is, you're missing out on its complete uberness.

The good:

I like the key action, I feel it will do us well.

My wife heard the girls and I playing on it, so she wanted to start to see if she liked trying. This is not something she has ever done before in the last 6 months.

I handed her our youngest's Bastien Primer. She had to stop after awhile because her fingers were sore from pushing the keys down for so long.

I consider that a sign of a keyboard that good for resistance.

The kids love:

- The tones
- The pitch wheel
- The USB recordings.
- The Sustain pedal. Keep in mind, we never had one before, so "oooh, the note goes on forever!".

We all love the feel of the ivory surface finish. My oldest commented on it without me mentioning the differences. So, yes, it's noticeable and in our home, it's liked.

Update: Okay, I'm in love with the song recorder on the board itself. The ability to record what you play and then replay it back is just, pure awesome fun.

I'm sure it's a common function, however, since this is my first real keyboard, it's new to me.

The not so good:

I come from a lineage, where my Father would pause VHS players to see how clear the images were. I'm trying to hold that part back. You should know this upfront.

- We all knew the speakers were weak on this. However, I thought coming from a CTK-2080 that the PX-350 speakers would blow the CTK away. I'm still not sure if they actually do. While the CTK has only 2w and the PX has 8w, the PX isn't making me sit there and go "Wow!". The further you are away from the unit, the better the speakers sound.

My wife on the other hand says the sound is fine and she likes it. So, I'm not sure if this is my purist side coming out or not.

- I'm coming from a Casio AHL device. I'm not sure if AiR is an improvement or not. My basis for this, and please correct me, is comparison of the Grand Piano sounds. Grand Piano Classic (the default PX preset) sounds muffled or subdued while playing my crowning achievement song. On the other-hand, the Grand Piano Bright sounds far more reasonable. The CTK's default present is clearer to me. I'm not saying better, I'm saying clearer.

The ugly:

I've got to return mine. When I got it home, the first thing I noticed is that the taped box-lid could be seen through. I could see the top of the keys (in it's protective foam).

The sustain cable was loose.

And far worse, there is a rattle when pressing the lowest A/A# keys. I'm not talking the much discussed thump, I can live with that, but an audible rattle like something mechanical is loose.

My end thoughts:

I'm a newbie. I will not discuss how awesome this keyboard is for playing Chopin or Bach, but what I have discussed are my thoughts so far.

I like this keyboard, I want this keyboard, I just let my expectations get hyped by the demo songs you see out there by the professionals.

The bad key means it needs to get returned and swapped with a new one. Which makes me somewhat depressed.


Edited by ShiverMeTimbres (02/17/14 03:56 PM)

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#2233185 - 02/17/14 01:54 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
fizikisto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/13/12
Posts: 550
Loc: Hernando, MS
ShiverMeTimbres
That sucks about the bad quality control on your unit. Hopefully the replacement will come quickly and set things right. Hope that you and your family get many years of enjoyment from your new piano. Also, nice review!

Warm Regards
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800

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#2233189 - 02/17/14 02:07 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Psychonaut Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 234
I've heard enough about QC problems with the Casios that I am not interested in purchasing a DP from them. Good luck straightening yours out.
_________________________
Yamaha P120, MO6, Steinberg MR816, Galaxy Vintage D, Komplete 8 & various other VIs, Reaper

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#2233211 - 02/17/14 02:28 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Psychonaut]
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 1777
Loc: Northern VA, U.S.
Originally Posted By: Psychonaut
I've heard enough about QC problems with the Casios that I am not interested in purchasing a DP from them. Good luck straightening yours out.


I had no QC issues with my PX-350. That sort of thing can happen and does happen with all manufacturers.

The 350 is a good board, especially at its price point.
_________________________


"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins

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#2233230 - 02/17/14 02:51 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Thanks fizikisto.

In terms of Quality Control issues, we cannot be sure where this particular unit had a problem. Could have been right from the manufacturer, or it could have been somewhere in between.

Something that struck me as "hmmms", when I opened it up and after watching this unboxing video before it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gbgPu6CJE4

There was no film on the panel. So, I'm wondering if might of been a prior return.

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#2233233 - 02/17/14 03:03 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3697
Loc: Northern England.
"There was no film on the panel. So, I'm wondering if might of been a prior return."

Others here will be able to confirm this. But it`s looking very much like the packaging has been opened. Collect evidence for this, like torn or over strained cardboard etc, then take it back.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2233253 - 02/17/14 03:36 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: ShiverMeTimbres
The further you are away from the unit, the better the speakers sound.

The bad key means it needs to get returned and swapped with a new one. Which makes me somewhat depressed.

I think placement of the instrument is a factor here. The space and material on an adjacent wall and maybe even the floor can help or hinder sound quality. When I added a 2nd tier and keyboard with the PX-350 on the bottom the boxed in acoustics were murder on the sound but I usually don't use the built in speakers anyway.

Don't dwell on the need to exchange the keyboard. If possible look at it carefully while you are at the store. Just do it and get on with enjoying the piano.

Some stores open and inspect everything. They might not catch something in the process of inspecting it. Hopefully there is a window to easily exchange things at this one.

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#2233295 - 02/17/14 04:34 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: o0Ampy0o]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: o0Ampy0o
Originally Posted By: ShiverMeTimbres
The further you are away from the unit, the better the speakers sound.

The bad key means it needs to get returned and swapped with a new one. Which makes me somewhat depressed.

I think placement of the instrument is a factor here. The space and material on an adjacent wall and maybe even the floor can help or hinder sound quality. When I added a 2nd tier and keyboard with the PX-350 on the bottom the boxed in acoustics were murder on the sound but I usually don't use the built in speakers anyway.

Don't dwell on the need to exchange the keyboard. If possible look at it carefully while you are at the store. Just do it and get on with enjoying the piano.

Some stores open and inspect everything. They might not catch something in the process of inspecting it. Hopefully there is a window to easily exchange things at this one.


Yeah, I'm sure the replacement will be fine. If they can't replace, then unfortunately, I will just need to return it outright.

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#2233349 - 02/17/14 06:27 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Possum SP280Krome Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 624
I returned 2 of them. I really wanted to be happy with them but was not. Poor quality. Key action and piano sound was nice. Not loud enough. Uneven height and space between keys. What a joke. My thought is it was a rushed project and they were forced to cut corners where they could get away with it.
Its fine to right anything into specs but amplifying $4 speakers 8 watts is not going to do much.
I would encourage you not to be overly optimistic if you decide to get another one.
_________________________
Roland Juno Gi
Casio PX-130
Korg Krome 61
Korg SP280

Rokit KRK 6 monitors
MXL V67G microphone

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#2233381 - 02/17/14 07:14 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Possum SP280Krome]
pwl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 202
Loc: Bay Area CA
Originally Posted By: Possum SP280Krome
I would encourage you not to be overly optimistic if you decide to get another one.

Shiver - YMMV, of course. So for the other side of the story, I can report that the PX-150 I bought recently was perfect out-of-the-box. In fact, the key action was better than expected when compared to the demo at GC (which is perhaps pounded upon unmercifully day in and day out).

I'm well aware of the performance compromises in my Casio. But QC issues? None.

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#2233392 - 02/17/14 07:53 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: pwl]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: pwl
Originally Posted By: Possum SP280Krome
I would encourage you not to be overly optimistic if you decide to get another one.

Shiver - YMMV, of course. So for the other side of the story, I can report that the PX-150 I bought recently was perfect out-of-the-box. In fact, the key action was better than expected when compared to the demo at GC (which is perhaps pounded upon unmercifully day in and day out).

I'm well aware of the performance compromises in my Casio. But QC issues? None.


I'm not deterred from them yet. After spending a full night and day with it, I'm happy with the model. The rattling key needs to be addressed and I will do that.

I've sat with both my kids while we practiced their lessons and am satisfied that this model will do the job.

Now, if I have the same problems Possum has, well, maybe I'd start looking for alternatives.

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#2233448 - 02/17/14 10:35 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
From a recent post on casiomusicforums.com :

Quote:
.. .
Confirmed speaker placement-there is one rather small rear-firing/rear mounted oval-shaped speaker on either end, and another very small speaker mounted upward on each side of the music stand slot! There are no other speakers facing upward despite the rather large cloth area on top. Weird, but thinking this a tweeter for high frequencies, not sure as I don't seem to hear much HF coming from these but as these are about an inch in diameter i can't imagine these are full-range speakers.
. . .


. Charles

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#2233451 - 02/17/14 10:42 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . .
My wife heard the girls and I playing on it, so she wanted to start to see if she liked trying. This is not something she has ever done before in the last 6 months.

I handed her our youngest's Bastien Primer. She had to stop after awhile because her fingers were sore from pushing the keys down for so long.

I consider that a sign of a keyboard that good for resistance.
. . .


It's not. It's a sign that your wife's keyboard technique is so bad that it's injuring her! There's tension, and there's TENSION, and she has the second one.

If she wants to play, I suggest that she take lessons _soon_, before bad habits develop. Most teachers will catch, and correct, whatever she's doing wrong.

. Charles

PS -- if you were joking, I apologize for this post. But I wasn't sure.

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#2233475 - 02/18/14 12:01 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Charles Cohen]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . . - I'm coming from a Casio AHL device. I'm not sure if AiR is an improvement or not. My basis for this, and please correct me, is comparison of the Grand Piano sounds. Grand Piano Classic (the default PX preset) sounds muffled or subdued while playing my crowning achievement song. On the other-hand, the Grand Piano Bright sounds far more reasonable. The CTK's default present is clearer to me. I'm not saying better, I'm saying clearer. . . .


I just tried the "Grand Piano Bright", and my first reaction:

. . . . OUCH!

Over many years, acoustic pianos can develop really hard hammers, and a very bright, harsh tone. That's what I hear in that sound. And some people would use it, in rock/pop music, to cut through a band.

I also tried to play softly -- no dice! I'm pretty sure that the 'Rock Piano' has a different relationship between key velocity and loudness than 'Grand Piano Concert'. I suspect "Grand Piano Bright" is set up the same way:

. . . You don't have to hit the keys very hard, to play loudly.

It may be what you're used to, but I don't like it at all.

There's another possibility:

. . . You're not hitting the keys hard enough.

The tone of the "GdPiano Concert" gets _considerably_ brighter as you go from "p" to "FF". It's not just a change in volume, but a change in tone quality.

So, if you're playing softly, you won't get much "presence" (or high-frequency components) in the sound. That's how an acoustic piano behaves, but it's _not_ how your old keyboard acts. So the sound (and the effect of changing tone quality, when you hit the keys harder) is probably unfamiliar to you.

The PX-350 menu has a "Brilliance" setting. If you want a little more brightness to your sound, use the "Grand Piano Concert" or "Grand Piano Studio", and raise the "Brilliance" setting.

. Charles

PS -- this is a situation where headphones might change your judgement. It will be an interesting experiment.

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#2233488 - 02/18/14 01:19 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Vansh Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/13
Posts: 46
Yeah when I got my PX-150, I actually thought the sound was too bright -- so I turned down the brilliance (hence making it more muffled or subdued). I guess this just comes to different people's taste. In fact I was considering returning it because some of the upper register notes sounded too shrill to me (wasn't sure if it was a speaker issue or not). However, changing the brilliance setting to be more mellow cleared up that problem; I prefer a mellow Steinway sound.

In addition to increasing the brilliance setting, you can also try changing the touch response to 1 (i.e. sensitive) and decreasing the volume if need be. Changing the touch response to 1 basically means that it'll think any keypress is louder (not in terms of volume but in terms of how hard the hammer strikes the strings for an acoustic), and hence use the brighter tones for each key (the tone is brighter the louder it is, just like with an acoustic piano). That may or may not work for you though depending on how sensitive you really want it to be.

Sorry about the QC issue. I hope it wasn't really because it was a refurbished or used model. FWIW when I got my PX-150, there was a tape strip along the bottom of the keys keeping them all together during shipping; I don't know if there is one for the PX-350, but that's also something that you could check.

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#2233682 - 02/18/14 11:23 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Vansh]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted By: Vansh
. . .
Sorry about the QC issue. I hope it wasn't really because it was a refurbished or used model. FWIW when I got my PX-150, there was a tape strip along the bottom of the keys keeping them all together during shipping; I don't know if there is one for the PX-350, but that's also something that you could check.


My PX-350 came with a strip of tape along the fronts of the keys.

. Charles

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#2233797 - 02/18/14 03:13 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Charles Cohen]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
I called them up and explained the scenario and the problem with the keys. He indicated that it sounds like it had already been opened.

He instructed me to keep the PX350 I have while they get another one brought it (a couple days or so) and we can swap it out.

My daughter's words: "If we don't use that key, why worry about it?" smile

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#2233802 - 02/18/14 03:16 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Charles Cohen]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
Quote:
. . .
My wife heard the girls and I playing on it, so she wanted to start to see if she liked trying. This is not something she has ever done before in the last 6 months.

I handed her our youngest's Bastien Primer. She had to stop after awhile because her fingers were sore from pushing the keys down for so long.

I consider that a sign of a keyboard that good for resistance.
. . .


It's not. It's a sign that your wife's keyboard technique is so bad that it's injuring her! There's tension, and there's TENSION, and she has the second one.

If she wants to play, I suggest that she take lessons _soon_, before bad habits develop. Most teachers will catch, and correct, whatever she's doing wrong.

. Charles

PS -- if you were joking, I apologize for this post. But I wasn't sure.


Nope, I'm very serious. Thanks for catching that, I'll talk her into taking a couple lessons with me.

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#2233803 - 02/18/14 03:19 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
TheodorN Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 1202
Loc: Helsingborg, Sweden
I'm glad you'll get a new piano, hope that one will be OK. Kids have a way of solving the problems we face!
_________________________
My YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/thenorbass1

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#2233941 - 02/18/14 08:56 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
o0Ampy0o Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/12
Posts: 473
Originally Posted By: ShiverMeTimbres
....My daughter's words: "If we don't use that key, why worry about it?" smile

Soooooo sweet.

I love when kids comment on the world without any pretense.

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#2234056 - 02/19/14 04:45 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Lester Burnham Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 279
Just to chip in on the QC issue, I recently bought a Casio Celviano AP-245 (I bought it between Christmas and New Year, it was delivered New Year's Eve, and I unpacked / unboxed it and assembled it on New Year's Day).

From memory (I probably should have taken more pictures) the lid was taped down / in position - the box had very clearly never been opened by the store. All the keys had tape along the front of them keeping them in position.

When it was all assembled and playable, I tested all the keys, and none had any different clicks, nor were notably loose or waggly.

In terms of key weight, well prior to buying my AP-245, I've only ever played real pianos (albeit the vast majority of the time, upright pianos) - so this is my first real experience of a digital piano. And although first learning to play the piano in 78, and having lessons / tuition and taking the first five grades for the following 10 years (well only started taking exams after about 3 or 4 years - changed teacher after about 3 or 4 years, so I could take exams - first teacher, although having a diploma, wasn't interested in teaching for exam purposes), I largely stopped playing regularly, probably around 88-ish. I started playing my acoustic piano again, probably a month / six weeks before getting my AP-245, and the biggest revelation I have about the Casio keyboard action, is that it's remarkable in being rather unremarkable - in that it felt so similar to what I was used to, it was unremarkable in that manner.

Don't get me wrong - I haven't tested them back-to-back - they're in different rooms in my house - but all the same, the keyboard action just feels as I'd expect a piano to feel - which I have to say, for me at least, means they've got something right, there.

That said, I have zero personal / physical experience with other digital pianos, so have no real thoughts about the actions on other digital pianos, other than really just feeling the pulse of what people write about them, really. All I can say is that for me, at least, my AP-245 felt right, from the outset.

To me, at least, that's filled the major reason I had in buying a digital piano - one with a realistic action I could use for silent practice with headphones on.

As to sound - well it probably has the same kind of speakers and power output (2 x 8w), I mostly just play with headphones. Using speakers, it's more than adequate for the size of room I have it in, and the usage I'm making of it, although I really got it to be able to play / practice with headphones on.

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#2234115 - 02/19/14 09:05 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: Charles Cohen]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Originally Posted By: Charles Cohen
I just tried the "Grand Piano Bright", and my first reaction:

. . . . OUCH!

Over many years, acoustic pianos can develop really hard hammers, and a very bright, harsh tone. That's what I hear in that sound. And some people would use it, in rock/pop music, to cut through a band.

I also tried to play softly -- no dice! I'm pretty sure that the 'Rock Piano' has a different relationship between key velocity and loudness than 'Grand Piano Concert'. I suspect "Grand Piano Bright" is set up the same way:

. . . You don't have to hit the keys very hard, to play loudly.

It may be what you're used to, but I don't like it at all.

There's another possibility:

. . . You're not hitting the keys hard enough.

The tone of the "GdPiano Concert" gets _considerably_ brighter as you go from "p" to "FF". It's not just a change in volume, but a change in tone quality.

So, if you're playing softly, you won't get much "presence" (or high-frequency components) in the sound. That's how an acoustic piano behaves, but it's _not_ how your old keyboard acts. So the sound (and the effect of changing tone quality, when you hit the keys harder) is probably unfamiliar to you.

The PX-350 menu has a "Brilliance" setting. If you want a little more brightness to your sound, use the "Grand Piano Concert" or "Grand Piano Studio", and raise the "Brilliance" setting.

. Charles

PS -- this is a situation where headphones might change your judgement. It will be an interesting experiment.


Hey Charles, I missed this, I'm sorry. I tried hard and soft and changed the brilliance. I think what it is, is either the 6" between the wall and the rear facing speakers, or I'm just not used to the way a grand piano sounds.

Keeping in mind, I've had little exposure to grand pianos (or pianos in general), I probably just have a poor basis of reference (like you said, pop/rock music).

My family has one musician in it, my parents were not musically inclined, nor did I spend a lot of time around musicians. So, it is quite possible I just don't know what I'm listening too.

Talking about how hard I'm using the keys, is it possible I could damage the keyboard? I've got meathooks for hands and probably am doing it to hard.

If you wondering what I mean by meathooks, on your keyboard, my palm covers 5 keys wide, my pinky-to-thumb comfortably has a 9 key span. Which likely means nothing when playing piano, other than trying to figure out how not to smash the it while trying to learn it smile

Edit Note: Found the measuring tape. 24.6cm from tip of pinky to tip of thumb. Just above average.

I'm working on finding a teacher that is willing to do 2 times a month due to time constraints and not financial reasons (as in, money should be spent elsewhere).


Edited by ShiverMeTimbres (02/19/14 10:11 AM)

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#2234516 - 02/19/14 08:48 PM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
Charles Cohen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/12
Posts: 1389
Loc: Richmond, BC, Canada
Quote:
. . .
Talking about how hard I'm using the keys, is it possible I could damage the keyboard? I've got meathooks for hands and probably am doing it to hard. . .


I suppose you could be pounding the piano into submission.<G>

"Keyboard wear" isn't usually a problem. Concert pianists play pretty hard -- their acoustic sound has to fill a hall. And they put more hours per day on their pianos, than you will.

Really, this is something for you to discuss with a teacher (when you find one). I wouldn't worry about it.


. Charles

PS -- I think Morodiene (who sometimes posts here) has at least one digital piano used for lessons. THat means hours per day of use, by inexperienced people.

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#2242029 - 03/06/14 03:47 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
ShiverMeTimbres Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/08/14
Posts: 207
Update on the rattling key.

I got the new PX-350 last night. It became very clear that the original one I had purchased was a return/openbox.

The box was perfectly sealed shut. The packaging was intact, the strips of plastic were still on the unit (plus the tape along the keyboard).

There was a printed out manual in a different language, stapled together (as opposed to a proper booklet). Which didn't come with the new one.

The rattle isn't there on this new keyboard and it doesn't seem to be as thumpy.

A large difference.

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#2242064 - 03/06/14 06:56 AM Re: My PX-350 thoughts so far. [Re: ShiverMeTimbres]
pwl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/31/13
Posts: 202
Loc: Bay Area CA
This is good to hear. And it parallels my PX-150 experience: well-packaged and absolutely no out-of-the-box quality issues.

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