Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
112 registered (Almaviva, accordeur, 36251, Anita Potter, ando, 25 invisible), 1662 Guests and 15 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#2242607 - 03/07/14 11:52 AM 2+ octave run technique
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
Whether it's scalar or arpeggio, I find single octave movements come with relative ease, but when I stretch to 2 octave (repeating pattern) runs I have the coordination of a bull in a china shop. I can only imagine that this is a hurdle that all pianists must overcome. My questions are, how?...and what exercises might I employ to strengthen my confidence?

An example would be a simple C minor blues run: C, Eb, F, Gb, G, Bb. What would the recommended fingering be to facilitate a multi-octave repeated pattern?

Another example is a C major scale (which works great when only one octave is used). I find my pinky (RH)on the octave. Is there a better way to finger the scale to allow for a seamless 2 scale or more run up and down?

Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated as I'm primarily self taught and want to address this for all scales and pentatonics.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2242614 - 03/07/14 12:02 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Polyphonist Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8123
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Arizona Sage
Another example is a C major scale (which works great when only one octave is used). I find my pinky (RH)on the octave. Is there a better way to finger the scale to allow for a seamless 2 scale or more run up and down?

1231234 and repeat.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2242617 - 03/07/14 12:06 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Polyphonist]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
How about descending a C maj scale?
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
#2242630 - 03/07/14 12:27 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Polyphonist Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8123
Loc: New York City
Starting on B, 4321321 and repeat.
_________________________
Regards,

Polyphonist

Top
#2242633 - 03/07/14 12:30 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
Thank you! Essentially leaving the pinky out of the mix entirely.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
#2242665 - 03/07/14 01:39 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Ataru074 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 513
Loc: Houston, TX
C major scale

1) hand separate
2) slow
3) start on each single note of the scale and go up 2 octaves
4) start on each single note of the scale and go down 2 octaves
5) use different rhythmic combinations:
5.a) 1/4 1/4 1/16 /16
5.b) 1/4 1/16 1/16 1/4
5.c) 1/16 1/16 1/4 1/4
5.d) 1/16 1/4 1/4 1/16
6) do it forte
7) do it piano
8) do it crescendo
9) do it diminuendo

get a book of scales for the fingering.

on your blues example... depends on many factors ( speed and control for example )
I'd do either (RH) 131213 or 131234
(LH) 121312 or 121432
_________________________
working on:
Chopin: Op 48 #2
Mozart: Kv333
Beethoven: Op 26
Bach: French Suite G major, English Suite G minor.
Clementi: Gradus ad Parnassum #2, 9, 12

Top
#2242677 - 03/07/14 02:00 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Ataru074]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
Originally Posted By: Ataru074
C major scale

1) hand separate
2) slow
3) start on each single note of the scale and go up 2 octaves
4) start on each single note of the scale and go down 2 octaves
5) use different rhythmic combinations:
5.a) 1/4 1/4 1/16 /16
5.b) 1/4 1/16 1/16 1/4
5.c) 1/16 1/16 1/4 1/4
5.d) 1/16 1/4 1/4 1/16
6) do it forte
7) do it piano
8) do it crescendo
9) do it diminuendo

get a book of scales for the fingering.

on your blues example... depends on many factors ( speed and control for example )
I'd do either (RH) 131213 or 131234
(LH) 121312 or 121432





Thank you so much for your help! I appreciate it immensely.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
#2242679 - 03/07/14 02:08 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2455
Loc: Virginia, USA
Usually the problem is that darn thumb has to move so I would practice that bit especially. I'm doing a Czerny study with a ton of F major arpeggios (there are some others too, including a nasty one based on a diminished chord). My teacher's main comment at the lesson was the audible break where the thumb moves.

Another common problem is the keyboard topography changes when we move up and down the keyboard. You don't notice it for an octave but two - yup. So practice blocking the chords in both octaves and moving between them.
_________________________
  • Schumann - Ende vom Lied, Opus 12.8
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3

Top
#2242685 - 03/07/14 02:19 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Andy Platt]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
I watched a video somewhere about the thumb position possibly contributing to the lack of a smooth transition. I've found myself playing the thumbed notes with the nail portion of the thumb. The guy in the video suggested moving the thumb further "into" the key, playing more on the side of the first knuckle of the thumb. The change in hand position is remarkable.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
#2242690 - 03/07/14 02:30 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12614
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Arizona Sage
I watched a video somewhere about the thumb position possibly contributing to the lack of a smooth transition. I've found myself playing the thumbed notes with the nail portion of the thumb. The guy in the video suggested moving the thumb further "into" the key, playing more on the side of the first knuckle of the thumb. The change in hand position is remarkable.


Actually, you don't want to really play on the side of the thumb with the knuckle like that. The idea is to get all of your different lengths of fingers to be even. If you play on the side of the thumb (meaning have a lot of contact with all of the nail joint pressing down the key), you will have a hitch in the sound and it will slow you down. I tend to play on the fleshy part next to the nail.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#2242702 - 03/07/14 03:09 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Morodiene]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
Yes, that's what I meant...sorry. I meant that I was using just the tip of my thumb vs pushing more of my thumb forward.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top
#2243021 - 03/08/14 07:28 AM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Ataru074 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 513
Loc: Houston, TX
Good old uncle Liszt have plenty of exercises.... his whole book 2 of exercises is dedicated to prepare for the scales..
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks...41412vol._2.pdf
_________________________
working on:
Chopin: Op 48 #2
Mozart: Kv333
Beethoven: Op 26
Bach: French Suite G major, English Suite G minor.
Clementi: Gradus ad Parnassum #2, 9, 12

Top
#2243083 - 03/08/14 11:06 AM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12614
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: Arizona Sage
Yes, that's what I meant...sorry. I meant that I was using just the tip of my thumb vs pushing more of my thumb forward.


OK, that makes more sense. It's hard to describe technical issues on a forum, and much easier to just show. smile
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher FT



Top
#2243163 - 03/08/14 01:25 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Ataru074]
Arizona Sage Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 116
Loc: Arizona, USA, Earth
Originally Posted By: Ataru074
Good old uncle Liszt have plenty of exercises.... his whole book 2 of exercises is dedicated to prepare for the scales..
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks...41412vol._2.pdf



Wow. Thank you for sharing this! Have a gig tonight with my AC/DC tribute act. Tomorrow I will attack this with zeal. Thanks again.
_________________________
Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Book You Helped With is Free Today
by TromboneAl
04/19/15 09:55 AM
New Casio Privia PX-160
by fizikisto
04/19/15 09:17 AM
What piano keyboard controller is this?
by toddy
04/19/15 05:53 AM
Chickering Brothers Founder worked at Chickering and Sons?
by pianoman9
04/19/15 01:11 AM
Stress caused by bitter rivalry led to premature deaths
by newport
04/18/15 10:56 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
--------------------
Historic Piano Documents
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Forum Stats
78,941 Registered Members
44 Forums
163,351 Topics
2,397,529 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission