Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician
SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
Ad (Piano Sing)
How to Make Your Piano Sing
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
Who's Online
151 registered (accordeur, ajames, 36251, A Guy, alans, 40 invisible), 1640 Guests and 20 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Topic Options
#2242620 - 03/07/14 12:13 PM music notation
88slowpoke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 36
Looking for some guidance on these two photos- In the first one, what does the connecting flag between the treble and base staff notes mean? And, on the second photo, what does the line between the two staves mean? (I have also seen this symbol connecting a note in one staff to a rest in the other) Explanations much appreciated!

[img:left][/img] [img:right][/img]

Top
(ads P/S)

Petrof Pianos

#2242652 - 03/07/14 01:17 PM Re: music notation [Re: 88slowpoke]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
In the first image, the bass and treble staff notes are connected with a beam to show they are part of one musical "voice".

In the second image, the line from treble clef to bass notes shows the same thing: the musical voice goes from the treble clef to the bass clef. (It's an odd example; I don't quite see what it shows as far as interpretation without the line, but that's what it means.)

When the line connects from a note to a rest, it's showing the same thing: where a musical voice goes. When it's a rest, it means the next thing in that voice is a rest instead of a note.

A musical voice is one strand in the multilayered piece of music. Imagine if several singers were singing the music. You would have one singer singing all those connected eighth notes in the first examples, and other singers singing other notes in the piano part. You can see different voices clearly if you look at a hymn that has been harmonized for soprano/alto/tenor/bass. The same idea, of different musical lines hanging together as a separate melody or voice, can be seen in a lot of Piano music even though it's not literally written for four singers.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (03/07/14 01:22 PM)
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2242681 - 03/07/14 02:12 PM Re: music notation [Re: 88slowpoke]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2423
Loc: Virginia, USA
Hmm, I'm not sure in the first one that that's not supposed to be a tie to the G in the next measure though why it doesn't join is beyond me. If it's a phrasing thing I could expect it to go up towards the treble clef and, anyway, the joined beam already does that.

Andy.
_________________________
  • Schumann - Ende vom Lied, Opus 12.8
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3

Top
#2242737 - 03/07/14 04:40 PM Re: music notation [Re: 88slowpoke]
joflah Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 334
Loc: St. Louis, MO, USA
Are the little notes at the bottom for an organ pedal?
_________________________
Jack

Top
#2243025 - 03/08/14 07:50 AM Re: music notation [Re: PianoStudent88]
88slowpoke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 36
Thanks for the reply, I couldn't figure out if I was instructed to do anything special by these symbols.
Originally Posted By: PianoStudent88
In the first image, the bass and treble staff notes are connected with a beam to show they are part of one musical "voice".

In the second image, the line from treble clef to bass notes shows the same thing: the musical voice goes from the treble clef to the bass clef. (It's an odd example; I don't quite see what it shows as far as interpretation without the line, but that's what it means.)

When the line connects from a note to a rest, it's showing the same thing: where a musical voice goes. When it's a rest, it means the next thing in that voice is a rest instead of a note.

A musical voice is one strand in the multilayered piece of music. Imagine if several singers were singing the music. You would have one singer singing all those connected eighth notes in the first examples, and other singers singing other notes in the piano part. You can see different voices clearly if you look at a hymn that has been harmonized for soprano/alto/tenor/bass. The same idea, of different musical lines hanging together as a separate melody or voice, can be seen in a lot of Piano music even though it's not literally written for four singers.

Top
#2243026 - 03/08/14 07:51 AM Re: music notation [Re: joflah]
88slowpoke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 36
Yes.
Originally Posted By: joflah
Are the little notes at the bottom for an organ pedal?

Top
#2243029 - 03/08/14 08:02 AM Re: music notation [Re: 88slowpoke]
PianoStudent88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
As far as doing anything special: musically you want to make those notes sound as if they go together in some sense, but that's just because they're part of one musical voice, not anything added by the less common way the voice is laid out.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

Top
#2243065 - 03/08/14 10:23 AM Re: music notation [Re: 88slowpoke]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11845
Loc: Canada
The notes that are ascending going C Eb G C E(b) are part of a series of notes that go together as if they are an accompanying voice that rises in a broken chord, while the melody is playing. It is part of the Cm chord that harmonizes this part of the melody. The choice of putting part of that series in the bass clef, and part in the treble clef, is in order to show you which hand plays the notes -which is "handier". Composers have a choice in this regard.

If this were a choir singing it, then it would be clearcut. The bass singers would sing a low A that they hold all the way through. The tenors would sing G C Eb G C Eb in eighth notes. The altos would sing middle C and hold it the whole measure. The sopranos would sing Eb and hold it all the way through. In fact, everybody is singing only one note except for the tenor. You'd want to hear the sopranos more because they are holding the melody.

But this is piano, so you run into some problems and decisions. Your "tenor" voice cuts into the "alto" note (C) and then it cuts into the "soprano" note (Eb). So the way you play it is that in the RH you hold C Eb, making the Eb louder since it's the melody. The LH plays AG and you keep holding the low A with your pinky. Then you play Eb G while holding the A, and then continue that sequence with your RH (C Eb). You'd have to play C and then hold it again because it is also the C that is being held in the alto voice, and then the Eb .... Unless you choose to just hold the Eb and not play it.

In other words you're given an impossibility since you cannot actually hold the upper voices as written while at the same time have the "tenor" voice play what is written. You cannot both hold a note and let go of it. This is probably not written originally for a keyboard. You must make a choice.

In the second one likewise, they're showing that the "alto voice" switches down from Eb to low C. But as a pianist you don't really have to care about that. Just play the notes that are there, and you are fine.

Originally Posted By: Andy Platt
Hmm, I'm not sure in the first one that that's not supposed to be a tie to the G in the next measure though why it doesn't join is beyond me. If it's a phrasing thing I could expect it to go up towards the treble clef and, anyway, the joined beam already does that.

Overkill? I agree, Andy.

Top

Moderator:  BB Player, casinitaly 
What's Hot!!
Christmas Header
- > Gift Ideas for Music Lovers < -
From PianoSupplies.com a division of Piano World.
-------------------
The December Free Piano Newsletter
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
Yamaha CP Music Rest Promo
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad) Piano Music Sale - Dover Publications
Piano Music Sale
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
New Topics - Multiple Forums
This note clicking problem is surely shared with others
by music32
12/18/14 12:54 PM
Salesperson Dilemma
by RGibson
12/18/14 12:01 PM
Fast scale and trills in Chopin Nocturne op.62-1 in B major
by ppianist
12/18/14 11:10 AM
Kenny Barron and Dave Holland
by jjo
12/18/14 10:13 AM
Coming around the backstretch...
by RonTuner
12/18/14 09:11 AM
Forum Stats
77340 Members
42 Forums
159952 Topics
2349075 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Gift Ideas for Music Lovers!
Find the Perfect Gift for the Music Lovers on your List!
Visit our online store today.

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission