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#2243217 - 03/08/14 02:43 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
I think you'll be pretty happy with the Rokit 6s. A good, economical choice.
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2243350 - 03/08/14 08:59 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: dmd]
Lance VI Labs Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By: dmd
Originally Posted By: Lance VI Labs
Ravenscroft 275 and our True Keys Pianos are not VST instruments


This is what I am wondering about.

Why restrict your products to only the one option for playback ?


It would seem to be in VILabs best interest to allow it to run in a variety of environments.


Why not make it a VST instrument so it will run on a variety of DAWS ?

Is it cost ? Sales Strategy ?



There are no restrictions on options for playback as the UVI Workstation is available as a stand-alone player as well as VST and all other plug-in formats for both Windows and Mac. VST, created by Steinberg, is simply one of many formats for virtual instruments/processors and is most often used as a plug-in format in most Windows DAW applications. The VST instrument in this case is UVI Workstation, and the Ravenscroft is a library that works within UVI Workstation using its engine. There are differences between our instruments which are libraries with advanced scripting that work within an existing engine/player vs. dedicated proprietary engines/players. If you purchase Alicia's Keys or Galaxy Vintage D, those are libraries that works within Kontakt Player, and Kontakt Player is available for stand-alone use or any plug-in format for use in a DAW. You can install one free player (Kontakt Player for Kontakt libraries, UVI Workstation for UVI instruments) and then install numerous libraries that all work within that one player. Or if you have the full version of the Kontakt or MachFive samplers, the libraries open in those and offer further editing and customization capabilities...something that can't be done with proprietary VI's. What you get are consistent controls and features, consistent reliability, and the need for only one installation for stand-alone and plug-in options. VST is not the only plug-in format as there are also AU, RTAS and AAX, all of which are supported with UVI Workstation. You can learn more about this at UVI.net

While I've mentioned the significant costs of developing a proprietary custom engine and the pros and cons of such, many instrument developers choose an existing engine for many other reasons such as a feature set that makes what they want to do possible as well as the proven reliability and support that comes from a well-established company such as UVI or NI. Think of the amount of feedback UVI and NI get from the hundreds of VI instruments/libraries that have been made with their samplers and how that's gone into improving the features, quality and stability of those platforms. I'm not saying it's always preferable to use an existing engine vs. creation of a custom engine, but there are many reasons besides costs one could be considered over the other, and it does factor into what we and other VI makers can offer to customers in terms of features, playability, performance and cost of the final product.

I hope this further answers the questions. And UVI Workstation should be running very well as a stand-alone virtual instrument which will run any UVI library including Ravenscroft, so anyone having issues with stand-alone operation should contact us so we can address those issues. 90% of the time when I just want to play, I launch the stand-alone UVI Workstation and it performs beautifully on Windows or Mac equally on a variety of systems. We're happy to answer questions and do take your feedback very seriously as it helps us and all of our customers, so please contact me on here or use our Contact page on the website. Thanks!

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#2243352 - 03/08/14 09:13 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Lance VI Labs]
dmd Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 1955
Loc: Pennsylvania
Lance:

Thank you very much for your in-depth response to my curiosity.

I am not knowledgeable about this stuff so I am getting in over my head here but I am starting to get the picture.

I appreciate it.

Thank you
_________________________
Don

Current: ES7, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD555 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II American Concert D, Pianoteq 5

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#2243353 - 03/08/14 09:34 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Lance VI Labs]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: Lance VI Labs

And UVI Workstation should be running very well as a stand-alone virtual instrument which will run any UVI library including Ravenscroft, so anyone having issues with stand-alone operation should contact us so we can address those issues. 90% of the time when I just want to play, I launch the stand-alone UVI Workstation and it performs beautifully on Windows or Mac equally on a variety of systems. We're happy to answer questions and do take your feedback very seriously as it helps us and all of our customers, so please contact me on here or use our Contact page on the website. Thanks!



Hi Lance,

Several people on this forum have had problems with ASIO playback when using UVI workstation stand-alone. ASIO4All in particular is problematic, and it produces warbled distortion and doesn't interact correctly with the ASIO4All interface (buffer size is reported inaccurately, latency is high, etc.)

The workaround we've been using is to host UVI inside a DAW so that DAW handles the ASIO output.

Are you familiar with these ASIO issues when using UVI stand-alone?

Thanks


Edited by chicolom (03/08/14 09:35 PM)
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2243390 - 03/09/14 12:21 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]
Lance VI Labs Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 11
Originally Posted By: chicolom

Hi Lance,

Several people on this forum have had problems with ASIO playback when using UVI workstation stand-alone. ASIO4All in particular is problematic, and it produces warbled distortion and doesn't interact correctly with the ASIO4All interface (buffer size is reported inaccurately, latency is high, etc.)

The workaround we've been using is to host UVI inside a DAW so that DAW handles the ASIO output.

Are you familiar with these ASIO issues when using UVI stand-alone?

Thanks


Hi Chicolom,

I need to know a lot more information about each particular problem in order to fairly assess the issue such as what OS is used, computer specs, soundcard or sound device used as well as settings in UVI Workstation, ASIO4ALL settings, etc. Otherwise I'm just speculating and throwing out ideas here. I've only used the ASIO4ALL driver a couple times and have never had good luck with it on anything, not just UVI Workstation. I've never had a need for it as I've always used the manufacturer's driver for whatever audio interface I'm using, and all of those have worked flawlessly with the stand-alone version of UVI. We have many beta testers mostly using a variety of audio interfaces (Roland, MOTU, Focusrite, Avid, Apogee, etc), and all perform very well from what we've gathered. I assume the ASIO4ALL driver is used if one is using an internal soundcard or audio device that doesn't include it's own low-latency driver? We do recommend a quality audio interface with low latency drivers to get the most out of the Ravenscroft or any VI for that matter, not just from VI Labs. There is a very noticeable difference in sound quality and latency when using the Avid HD I/O or RedNet or even the Apogee One vs. an internal soundcard, just to give an example.

Anyone having issues as you describe should contact us via our website so we can work with UVI to get any specific issues addressed. As much specific detailed information as can be provided will be very helpful. For anyone that uses Kontakt Player instruments (Alicia's Keys, Galaxy Vintage D, etc.) should let us know if the stand-alone version of Kontakt Player works, but UVI doesn't. And soon we will have more in-depth information on optimization, preferred settings and minimum/good/better/best system requirements. So any issues with detailed information can help us create a better list. And one final point on this..it seems this is only with ASIO drivers? Any Mac users here using Core Audio having any issues?

And you're quite welcome Don, and I can understand the confusion when you're rather new to all this! Anything we can answer for you to help better understand how it all works would be our pleasure.

-Lance @ VI Labs

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#2243445 - 03/09/14 03:40 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Lance VI Labs]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: Lance VI Labs

Hi Chicolom,

I need to know a lot more information about each particular problem in order to fairly assess the issue such as what OS is used, computer specs, soundcard or sound device used as well as settings in UVI Workstation, ASIO4ALL settings, etc. Otherwise I'm just speculating and throwing out ideas here. I've only used the ASIO4ALL driver a couple times and have never had good luck with it on anything, not just UVI Workstation. I've never had a need for it as I've always used the manufacturer's driver for whatever audio interface I'm using, and all of those have worked flawlessly with the stand-alone version of UVI. We have many beta testers mostly using a variety of audio interfaces (Roland, MOTU, Focusrite, Avid, Apogee, etc), and all perform very well from what we've gathered. I assume the ASIO4ALL driver is used if one is using an internal soundcard or audio device that doesn't include it's own low-latency driver? We do recommend a quality audio interface with low latency drivers to get the most out of the Ravenscroft or any VI for that matter, not just from VI Labs. There is a very noticeable difference in sound quality and latency when using the Avid HD I/O or RedNet or even the Apogee One vs. an internal soundcard, just to give an example.

Anyone having issues as you describe should contact us via our website so we can work with UVI to get any specific issues addressed. As much specific detailed information as can be provided will be very helpful. For anyone that uses Kontakt Player instruments (Alicia's Keys, Galaxy Vintage D, etc.) should let us know if the stand-alone version of Kontakt Player works, but UVI doesn't. And soon we will have more in-depth information on optimization, preferred settings and minimum/good/better/best system requirements. So any issues with detailed information can help us create a better list. And one final point on this..it seems this is only with ASIO drivers? Any Mac users here using Core Audio having any issues?


-Lance @ VI Labs



Yes. I've already done some troubleshooting and narrowed my problems down to UVI stand-alone + ASIO4ALL output on Windows.

UVI seems to have trouble initializing the audio device or something. Stand-alone Kontakt works fine with ASIO4ALL, and once you host UVI inside a DAW it ALSO works fine with ASIO4ALL.

I've replicated the problem on both my laptop and desktop (both running windows 8.1) and they both have same issue when running UVI stand-alone + ASIO4ALL output. I've tested four different audio devices hooked up to my dekstop (Motherboard Audio Asus A87-A, Creative Soundblaster Z PCI-E Soundcard, FiiO E10 USB DAC, JDSlabs ODAC) and none work with stand-alone UVI + ASIO4ALL, but they ALL work if UVI is hosted inside a DAW (and they all work with Kontakt).

My desktop PC specs are quite powerful: i7-4770K CPU, 16GB memory, Samsung EVO 250GB SSD. If I put UVI inside a DAW and use ASIO4ALL, I can crank the buffer down to the lowest 64 sample buffer (~2ms latency?) without any problems.



I realize an external audio interface is ideal, but I thought I would point out this issue nonetheless, as people without an external low-latency interface often rely on ASIO4ALL, and there are times when it comes in quite handy if you don't have an external interface with you.



If you want to try and reproduce this issue:

1) Grab a Windows (8) PC.
2) Install ASIO4ALL drivers on it.
3) Open UVI Workstation stand-alone.
4) Go to "File/Audio and Midi Settings/Audio Device" and set the "Audio Output" to "ASIO4ALL".
5) Load a sample library.
6) Try and play the instrument and adjust the latency...

You can experiment with swapping the order of steps 4 and 5 if you like.



Here are a few quotes from others having some problems with UVI stand-alone + ASIO4ALL.


Voxpops:
"I loaded up the 64-bit version of Cantabile Lite, switched back to ASIO4ALL, and I can play this piano with no discernible latency, and it sounds great and responds beautifully. This allows me to go back to using just the Surface Pro with USB and audio cables, and nothing else. So now I will be able to use it live!

I don't understand why when using UVI as a standalone device I have so much in the way of ASIO problems, as well as residual latency, but when I open the VST version of UVI in Cantabile Lite, it all works so much better, and can use ASIO4ALL with no warbling etc. There's definitely a bit of a mismatch between UVI and ASIO (at least on Windows). "




Dire Tonic:

"Re latency, I usually set this directly on Asio4all's own control panel when using galaxy D. So I'm doing the same with Ravenscroft in UVI but whether I set Asio4all to min (64 samples) or max (2048) there's no audible change in latency. It sounds just about ok and middling - maybe the 512 default that UVI initially launched in.

Is there a way to set the latency in UVI?

edit: No problem with UVI's latency settings when hosted in Cubase using ASIO4all - I suppose because Cubase is then in charge, but UVI as a standalone doesn't seem comfortable in the company of ASIO4all. Maybe I've overlooked something....bedtime..."




Digitalguy:

This is one of the downsides of UVI, it's the only engine that often gives me these problems with Asio (be it asio4all or the ones of my 2 interfaces). Try restarting UVI, it generally works after one or 2 attempts. But it's annoying as it happens quite often (at least on a pc...)


Edited by chicolom (03/09/14 03:46 AM)
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2243471 - 03/09/14 06:10 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
PtJaa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 209
Loc: Czech Republic
Lance, please, let UVI guys add the standard ASIO configuration window to UVI. It's a real shame it's not there.

All other music-production programs that I use (Kontakt, Reaper, Pianoteq...) let me open the ASIO configuration window to set-up my soundcard the way I want. UVI doesn't. My soundcard has more than the minimum configuration parameters (sampling frequency, buffer size) in ASIO and I can't even see how they are configured in UVI. I fail to see any other reason for this strange omission than ignorance...
_________________________
Kawai CA65 :: Galaxy: Vintage D, Vienna Grand, Giant :: Pianoteq 5 :: Kontakt 5 :: Reaper :: True Keys pianos

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#2243621 - 03/09/14 01:17 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Dorset, UK
Lance, no problem for this Mac user - with TK pianos - to use UVI, out through core audio. (I actually normally use usb to DAC and thence via a Behringer hum destroyer to the ES7, but it works directly too) No latency problems whatsoever and I've increased the polyphony to max, used all 3 mic positions etc. Also use TK within Reaper for recording, also no latency issues.

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#2243709 - 03/09/14 03:41 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
paolopiano69 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/13
Posts: 2
Loc: Genoa , Italy
Also I have to use cantabile for not having latency problems.
AMD A8 6600K
16 GB DDR3
SSDs
Scarlett 6i6
no problem with any software (ivory, Pianoteq, Studio One ... etc) but only with UVI Workstation.

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#2243743 - 03/09/14 04:36 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: PtJaa]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: PtJaa
Lance, please, let UVI guys add the standard ASIO configuration window to UVI. It's a real shame it's not there.

All other music-production programs that I use (Kontakt, Reaper, Pianoteq...) let me open the ASIO configuration window to set-up my soundcard the way I want. UVI doesn't. My soundcard has more than the minimum configuration parameters (sample, buffer size) in ASIO and I can't even see how they are configured in UVI. I fail to see any other reason for this strange omission than ignorance...


I think this is part of the problem.

My PCI-E soundcard has it's own ASIO drivers, and all other programs (Reaper, Kontakt, etc.) let me open up the soundcard's own ASIO config window when adjusting latency. UVI doesn't though, and instead tries to do it all through it's own configuration window. If I try and use my PCI-E soundcard with UVI stand-alone and adjust the latency in UVI I often get messages such as "An error occured while initializing Creative Sound Blaster ASIO", or "UVI workstation has stopped working" (UVI crashes). I believe there is some kind of mismatch in communication between UVI and the ASIO device going on.

This is why putting it inside a DAW seems to work. You don't have to go through UVI's ASIO config window and can instead open the soundcard/interface's own native ASIO window to make the adjustments - which seems to work a lot better.


Edited by chicolom (03/09/14 04:49 PM)
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2244462 - 03/10/14 08:48 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
I played Ravenscroft for the first time today.
I played for a short time this morning. I thought it sounded ok. but just ok. not overwhelmed. really barely whelmed.
went through the 5 choices.
stopped. came back a few hours later.
played the first choice only.
played through my monitors. (have not tried it through headphones.)
I played around with Ivory II ACD first.
then Ravenswood.
blown away. way way far away. like nirvana land. I did not play much up top. not a lot way low either.
but I played for well over an hour.
to say I was inspired, does not even hint at what happened.
it was a sublime experience.
I adjusted no settings, until the very end. I turned pedal noise down a ways. it was all the way up, and ridiculously loud.
I had my monitors turned up a bit.
I wailed. I mean I wailed.
it might as well have been a real Concert Grand Raven-Stein-Fazi-Bosen-Bluth..... I think you get the picture.
one problem. plenty of pops.....snap crackle...artifacts......whatever they're called.
I tried changing the buffer.....64......128.....256.......no good.
I put it back to 64....(higher was no better, might have been worse).....emailed support.
not pleased about this. hoping to get this remedied.
I could play whatever I wanted on ACD with its Cantabile. not a single pop. (I have to play ACD more to decide how much I like it. this little tale is regarding the long awaited, finally here RW.)
ok. getting to TLDR length....no thank you.

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#2244495 - 03/10/14 10:35 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
I played Ravenscroft for the first time today.
I played for a short time this morning. I thought it sounded ok. but just ok. not overwhelmed. really barely whelmed.
went through the 5 choices.
stopped. came back a few hours later.
played the first choice only.
played through my monitors. (have not tried it through headphones.)
I played around with Ivory II ACD first.
then Ravenswood.
blown away. way way far away. like nirvana land. I did not play much up top. not a lot way low either.
but I played for well over an hour.
to say I was inspired, does not even hint at what happened.
it was a sublime experience.
I adjusted no settings, until the very end. I turned pedal noise down a ways. it was all the way up, and ridiculously loud.
I had my monitors turned up a bit.
I wailed. I mean I wailed.
it might as well have been a real Concert Grand Raven-Stein-Fazi-Bosen-Bluth..... I think you get the picture.
one problem. plenty of pops.....snap crackle...artifacts......whatever they're called.
I tried changing the buffer.....64......128.....256.......no good.
I put it back to 64....(higher was no better, might have been worse).....emailed support.
not pleased about this. hoping to get this remedied.
I could play whatever I wanted on ACD with its Cantabile. not a single pop. (I have to play ACD more to decide how much I like it. this little tale is regarding the long awaited, finally here RW.)
ok. getting to TLDR length....no thank you.


I would just load the full "Ravenscroft 275" patch (the first choice). The other choices just load a single mic position and exclude all the other mic positions, but the full patch lets you pick and choose.


If you haven't already, try opening up UVI inside of a DAW instead of trying to run it stand-alone. It may fix your ASIO popping issues.
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2244496 - 03/10/14 10:43 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
thank you very much chicolom.

my DAW is Reaper. I know how to put effects on tracks. (it's easy.)
would you please tell me if you know if it's any harder to open UVI in Reaper, then it is to put an effect on a track?
or, are there any other settings that you know of, that I will have to make?
I have used Reaper for years and recorded hundreds of songs with it.
but I am new to software piano programs.
2 weeks ago, I got Ivory II American Concert D, and last week I got Ravenscroft.
thanks for any thoughts,
Charlie

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#2244499 - 03/10/14 10:54 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
To open UVI inside Reaper:

1) Open Reaper
2) Open "Preferences/Plugins/VST" and make sure Reaper is pointing to where the UVI VST plugin is (Should be Program Files/Steinberg/VSTplugins by default I think).
3) Go to "Track/Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track" the look under "VSTi" for UVIworkstation.

I usually click "No" to just use the stereo 1/2 outs.

UVI should open inside reaper and then just click to load up "Ravenscroft 275" like normal.

Go to "Preferences/Audio/Device" if you want to tweak your ASIO/output settings.

Save the project if you want to be able to open it up again automatically from a single click later. This also saves any changes you make to the Ravenscroft instrument inside UVI (useful if you like to set it up a certain way).


Edited by chicolom (03/10/14 10:55 PM)
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

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#2244512 - 03/10/14 11:17 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
you sooooo rock dude!!!

thank you so much. am frankly astonished that RW is snap crackling and popping on me in UVI standalone mode.
I have a new HP notebook with a 4th gen i7, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD (all it has on it are RW and ACD, for a total of less that ~ 85 GB), RME Babyface.
I don't get it.
gotta sleep.
thanks so much again man.

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#2244514 - 03/10/14 11:20 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
I have been switching back and forth between Ivory German D and Ravenscroft, but mostly I have been using the Ravenscroft.

I spent the last two days learning Schumann's Kinderszenen Op 15 No 1 and it is a sublime little piece.

I really enjoyed using the Ravenscroft. I have both the Close and Player mikes turned on as that seems to add a slightly richer sound to my ears. But - suffice to say I found the playing of Ravenscroft to be absolutely divine.

The sound is not overwhelming by any means, but it is strikingly pure and clean and beautifully in tune. The outlook continues to look very good for my continued use of the Ravenscroft for classical work.

Cracks and pops start to creep in over time and normally the only way that I can kill those is by shutting down the piano, hitting ctrl-alt-delete to start the task manager, and then killing every occurrence of a flash-player plug-in. I also get a few pops/crackles when my monitor flickers (or goes into sleep mode). Not a biggy.

Anyway... a happy report.



Edited by AZ_Astro (03/10/14 11:23 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2244548 - 03/11/14 02:25 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]
chicolom Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/26/12
Posts: 69
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
you sooooo rock dude!!!

thank you so much. am frankly astonished that RW is snap crackling and popping on me in UVI standalone mode.
I have a new HP notebook with a 4th gen i7, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD (all it has on it are RW and ACD, for a total of less that ~ 85 GB), RME Babyface.
I don't get it.
gotta sleep.
thanks so much again man.


You're welcome.

My computer has the same problem when using UVI in stand-alone mode, so don't worry.

It works great inside a DAW though.
_________________________
Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli

Top
#2244559 - 03/11/14 03:24 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]
Macy Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 619
Originally Posted By: AZ_Astro
...
I really enjoyed using the Ravenscroft. I have both the Close and Player mikes turned on as that seems to add a slightly richer sound to my ears. But - suffice to say I found the playing of Ravenscroft to be absolutely divine.

The sound is not overwhelming by any means, but it is strikingly pure and clean and beautifully in tune. The outlook continues to look very good for my continued use of the Ravenscroft for classical work.

Cracks and pops start to creep in over time and normally the only way that I can kill those is by shutting down the piano, hitting ctrl-alt-delete to start the task manager, and then killing every occurrence of a flash-player plug-in. I also get a few pops/crackles when my monitor flickers (or goes into sleep mode). Not a biggy.

Anyway... a happy report.

I wish I could report such satisfaction. I've been working with Ravenscroft for a couple of days and have been very frustrated. Thankfully I haven't had any problems with "cracks and pops" (or latency) on my iMac, but I can't get a piano sound that I like from it.

My "subjective opinion" is that it's lacking in at least three areas. (Yep, just my opinion, others will hear it differently I'm sure.)

(1) Starting at D one octave above middle C I hear a tinny ringing on about a half dozen consecutive notes at high velocity levels. (No, my other pianos do not do this through the same speakers.)

(2) Bass notes lack power in their lowest harmonics. (How can this be accurate sampling of a 9-foot grand?) As a result some notes for about a half octave above and below the C two octaves below middle C almost thump when played. Almost reminds me of a string bass rather than a piano. (Yeah, that's ok on a few jazz pieces, but not for general piano use.)

(3) My biggest complaint is the metallic sound of midrange chords played in the range about a half octave below middle C to an octave above middle C. If the original acoustic Ravenscroft sounds like this I can't imagine anyone paying $250K for one (I'd rather have any number of acoustic grands that cost 20% or considerably less).

I've tried EQ'ing to help correct (2) and (3) for several days and I can get it to sound ok on a few specific pieces but not in general. Of course I've also tried many mixing combinations of the 4 mic positions, but I can't find a solution I like yet. I wish that ViLabs had included a pre-mixed "optimum" mic combination rather than a 4th mic position, like they did on the True Keys American D, which worked quite well, but they don't.

But I haven't given up. Perhaps I'm suffering from ear fatigue at this point. But interestingly I can go immediately back to the Vintage D or Ivory II American D and they both sound great (but very different from each other).
_________________________
Macy

CVP-409GP, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere

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#2244625 - 03/11/14 08:05 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
R_B Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 544
AZ_Astro;
Do those flash player plug-in instances stop popping up if you just close your browser ?

{Just a suggestion}


Edited by R_B (03/11/14 08:15 AM)

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#2244673 - 03/11/14 10:30 AM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
Chrisl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Chicago, IL
I have all programs turned off exc. UVI, on a macbook pro, and I'll have say, 2-3 drop outs over 1.5 hrs of practice. Very annoying. I'm emailing the co. today.
_________________________
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.

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#2244701 - 03/11/14 12:00 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: R_B]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: R_B
AZ_Astro;
Do those flash player plug-in instances stop popping up if you just close your browser ?

{Just a suggestion}


Surprisingly, no. Not always. I thought they should, too.
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2244702 - 03/11/14 12:01 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Chrisl]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Chrisl
I have all programs turned off exc. UVI, on a macbook pro, and I'll have say, 2-3 drop outs over 1.5 hrs of practice. Very annoying. I'm emailing the co. today.


When you say 'drop out' do you mean a program crash? Or a few notes dropping out? Thx.
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2244723 - 03/11/14 12:45 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
voxpops Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3102
Loc: Oregon
I have also emailed VI with regard to the problems using UVI as a standalone program in Windows. For those experiencing issues, I seriously recommend installing something like Cantabile Lite (totally free) which seems to run UVI/Ravenscroft very smoothly.

There seems to be an increasing number of users reporting these problems. So often these days, though, software is released before bugs have been ironed out. I don't understand the reason why, in this instance, the standalone version is so buggy, but at least it's good to know there's a workaround.

Other than that, it's a really good, and eminently playable piano, IMO.
_________________________
Occasional author and inveterate ivory tickler:
http://www.amazon.com/author/richardspanswick

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#2244761 - 03/11/14 01:45 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
Originally Posted By: chicolom
To open UVI inside Reaper:

1) Open Reaper
2) Open "Preferences/Plugins/VST" and make sure Reaper is pointing to where the UVI VST plugin is (Should be Program Files/Steinberg/VSTplugins by default I think).
3) Go to "Track/Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track" the look under "VSTi" for UVIworkstation.

I usually click "No" to just use the stereo 1/2 outs.

UVI should open inside reaper and then just click to load up "Ravenscroft 275" like normal.

Go to "Preferences/Audio/Device" if you want to tweak your ASIO/output settings.

Save the project if you want to be able to open it up again automatically from a single click later. This also saves any changes you make to the Ravenscroft instrument inside UVI (useful if you like to set it up a certain way).


would someone please help me?
I cannot get Ravenscroft to work in Reaper. it does not see UVI Workstation, nor Ravenscroft.
I have the library files for both Ivory II (which works just fine in Cantabile), and Ravenscroft on my SSD secondary drive.
I could get reaper to see Ivory II, but not Ravenscroft.
UVI Workstation and Cantabile are on my regular boot HDD (along with Reaper and everything else).
would someone please tell me how to get this setup?

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#2244765 - 03/11/14 01:49 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
dire tonic Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/17/11
Posts: 1523
Loc: uk south
- PC users with crackle-pop problems; make sure your computer is set to its best performance setting in control panels/power options.

For a laptop it should be set to high performance (NOT balanced)
Not so sure about desktops but whatever it is you need minimum compromise on performance.

(probably stating the obvious but you never know...)

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#2244809 - 03/11/14 03:28 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted By: minstrelman
Originally Posted By: chicolom
To open UVI inside Reaper:

1) Open Reaper
2) Open "Preferences/Plugins/VST" and make sure Reaper is pointing to the UVI VST plugin (Should be Program Files/Steinberg/VSTplugins by default I think).
3) Go to "Track/Insert Virtual Instrument on New Track" the look under "VSTi" for UVIworkstation.

I usually click "No" to just use the stereo 1/2 outs.

UVI should open inside reaper and then just click to load up "Ravenscroft 275" like normal.

Go to "Preferences/Audio/Device" if you want to tweak your ASIO/output settings.

Save the project if you want to be able to open it up again automatically from a single click later. This also saves any changes you make to the Ravenscroft instrument inside UVI (useful if you like to set it up a certain way).


would someone please help me?
I cannot get Ravenscroft to work in Reaper. it does not see UVI Workstation, nor Ravenscroft.
I have the library files for both Ivory II (which works just fine in Cantabile), and Ravenscroft on my SSD secondary drive.
I could get reaper to see Ivory II, but not Ravenscroft.
UVI Workstation and Cantabile are on my regular boot HDD (along with Reaper and everything else).
would someone please tell me how to get this setup?



***
1) Install UVI Workstation
2) Just check to see if the file UVIWorkstationVSTx64.dll is on your system in the C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins folder.
3) Open Reaper
4) I don't have Reaper but following the instructions from above:

Open "Preferences/Plugins/VST" and point/browse to the UVIWorkstationVSTx64.dll file (should be there if you found it in step 2.)

5) UVI Workstation should open and you proceed to load Ravenscroft as normal.

See if that helps?


Edited by AZ_Astro (03/11/14 03:30 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2244810 - 03/11/14 03:37 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
thank you so much.
I have got UVI Workstation and Ravencroft in Reaper.
I can play the virtual keyboard.
the last piece of the puzzle, (and I am very stuck here), :is that I cannot get my Kawai to connect.
I can/could do it with UVI standalone. and with Ivory II in Cantabile.
would you please tell me how to get this to work?


Edited by minstrelman (03/11/14 03:38 PM)

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#2244823 - 03/11/14 04:20 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]
AZ_Astro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/19/12
Posts: 480
Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Hmmm. I did enter in the path: C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins inside Cantabile. Check to see if there is a place inside Reaper for you to save the path to the VST plugin.

If the keyboard is already working with UVI Workstation in standalone mode, I don't think you need to make ANY changes at all after you load UVI Workstation inside Reaper.

So - try it again without loading Reaper. Check out UVI Workstation with Ravenscroft. Working? Examine the screen to see if it changes at all later.

Then close it.

Then open Reaper and point to/link the UVI Workstation VST .dll file. Load up UVI workstation (it may happen automatically if you set up Reaper to look automatically for the VST.)

Anyway, why don't you give this a try and see where it takes you.






Edited by AZ_Astro (03/11/14 04:22 PM)
_________________________
Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Ivory II, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.


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#2244842 - 03/11/14 05:12 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]
minstrelman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 248
Loc: buffalo
thank you very much again.
I will try again.
VI Labs sent me an excellent step by step instruction from Reaper for VST stuff.
I got sound.
thank you so much again for all your generous help.



Edited by minstrelman (03/11/14 06:09 PM)

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#2244859 - 03/11/14 05:36 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]
Chrisl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: AZ_Astro
Originally Posted By: Chrisl
I have all programs turned off exc. UVI, on a macbook pro, and I'll have say, 2-3 drop outs over 1.5 hrs of practice. Very annoying. I'm emailing the co. today.


When you say 'drop out' do you mean a program crash? Or a few notes dropping out? Thx.


Every now and then, I hit a key and absolutely no sound. Next key press is fine.

Don't expect VPI to address this:

We never experienced it… and unless it is something that can be reproduced, it will be very hard to fix…
Is it always the same note?Is there some kind of a pattern?
One skipping note could also be a Hard Drive issue.
Per Arnaud
_________________________
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.

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