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Topic Options
#2243535 - 03/09/14 10:41 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
JimF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/08/09
Posts: 1673
Loc: south florida
I hope you will reconsider, tubbie075. Many of us would agree with your viewpoint.
_________________________
La Fille aux cheveux de lin - Debussy
Ma Mere L'Oye - Ravel
Mozart Sonata K545

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#2243542 - 03/09/14 10:54 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: JimF]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11406
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: JimF
I hope you will reconsider, tubbie075. Many of us would agree with your viewpoint.


Yup, but there's very little sense in getting upset by something online. It's easy to say things that can be hurtful or cross a line because we're somewhat anonymous and there are no repercussions.

Maybe just take a break for a little while to get some perspective. We hope you come back.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2243544 - 03/09/14 11:10 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1891
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Tubbie, I don't want you to quit the forum. I like you and respect your musical accomplishment.
_________________________
Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2243592 - 03/09/14 12:49 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
Polyphonist Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7471
Loc: New York City
I would like to add that Tubbie is absolutely correct.
_________________________
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Polyphonist

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#2243612 - 03/09/14 01:06 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11549
Loc: Canada
There is a confused message in the opening post which goes two directions and that's made answering it difficult and maybe led to present things. On one hand we have a sentimental and romantic picture. A father forms a bond with his newborn child through a piece of music he loves, and he experiences beautiful things through the mere touching of those notes. There is no "wrong" in this - good feelings are good feelings. Otoh (!), that's not what the OP sees for the future: this one is pragmatic and goes toward what well all do - learning to play the piano. Here he wonders if he can be "like a child", skip the basics and drudge part, and start with advanced music. Some of us responded to the sentiment, and some of us responded to the practical that looks to the future.

When you look at a father bonded to a child and loving the notes, "good luck with your life" seems odd. But when you look at a man wanting to learn to play well by continuing on this path, then "Good luck with your music-learning life." is totally apt. Tubbie saw the latter, and I saw the former. They're both there.

Jostein has already left, if I understand the last post correctly. It would be stupid for us to lose Tubbie, who has dedicated a lot of time to music studies, and a lot of time in sharing it with us here.

The thing is that when you have worked long and hard at something, then it grates when someone writes in proposing they'll get there while skipping all that. and that irritation can come out. Is it so terrible that when it's expressed then person who said it has to go away forever? Tubbie, it would be stupid for you to go, and nobody wants that.

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#2243646 - 03/09/14 01:56 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
I remember the first posting I did on these forums; I rubbed up the Piano lot the wrong way.

Realised, but it didn`t stop the flack!
Like ferrets in a sack;
don`t think they`d have been sorry if I didn`t come back . .

my posting got pulled without further assistance from me. They were doin` fine without my needing to fan the flames!

Amazing how intelligent folk can squabble over nothing . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2243647 - 03/09/14 01:57 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
LindaR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 160
Loc: Northern California
Jostein, I think I remember that intervals were discovered in some order on an ancient instrument and some sounded sweet together and some sour. I guess that would be a place to start?

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#2243648 - 03/09/14 01:58 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3437
Loc: Northern England.
I remember the first posting I did on these forums; I rubbed up the Piano lot the wrong way.

Realised, but it didn`t stop the flack!
Like ferrets in a sack;
don`t think they`d have been sorry if I didn`t come back . .

my posting got pulled without further assistance from me; shame.
I crossed the line.
They were doin` fine without my needing to fan the flame;

Amazing how intelligent folk can squabble over nothing . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2243766 - 03/09/14 05:20 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Tubbie0075]
wouter79 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 3446
Originally Posted By: Tubbie0075


I know this is a place for at lot of people to get support and share and feel good. This is not the place to vent frustration on other people. Remove my membership. I am outta here.

Good luck to you all and the very best with your lives.



LOL relax. You're right, this is not the place to vent frustrations on others. It's a fine line between what people ask and what to tell them. And How to tell them. I'm also learning that here.
_________________________

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#2243770 - 03/09/14 05:35 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: wouter79]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Originally Posted By: Tubbie0075


I know this is a place for at lot of people to get support and share and feel good. This is not the place to vent frustration on other people. Remove my membership. I am outta here.

Good luck to you all and the very best with your lives.



LOL relax. You're right, this is not the place to vent frustrations on others. It's a fine line between what people ask and what to tell them. And How to tell them. I'm also learning that here.


You both know, for us who can play the piano and spend years with teacher on the keybord, listening some self-thought people, who are coming here with pieces which are far beyond their skills, the answear will always be the same like get a teacher, skip this for next 2-3 years, cover the basis with music, piano, position and all that stuff.

And, while for us we are telling them just the truth and showing path on which they should be, for many adult begginers, and even more for the newcomers this sounds like "abandon it because you will be never able to play anything, and you only waste your time".

This is a common problem, when somebody put a lot of effort into something, like years, and then, a big bang into their heads. But, yeah, we justwant you to play good on the piano, hence everything.

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#2243887 - 03/09/14 08:45 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: briansaddleback]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1388
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: briansaddleback
Originally Posted By: Tubbie0075
First of all, there are no easy ways to learn the piano. There are only two ways to learn the piano: the hard way and the impossible way. Having the patience to go through the basics and taking the time to develop them solidly is the hard way. You have chosen the impossible way.

Maybe it's just me but I get fired up when people don't want to put in the hard work and go straight to Rachmaninov's piano concerto no. 3 for instance, because they just love that piece and just cannot play anything else but that piece. I'm sorry but such people has no appreciation to piano or music at all. Piano is a lot more than just a piece. Music is a lot more than just a piece.

Anyway, all I can say to you is good luck with your life. You have a better chance of winning the lottery ticket. Don't waste anymore of your time on the piano.




wow. butt-hurt much?
you say you're 40 years old you think you should know by now life isnt just black and white? Maybe someone likes to learn a piece because he just loves or appreciates that piece. so he tinkers on a piano till he can get the gist of the melody out. or Just like some guy who was inspired to paint a picture of something even though he isnt trained in art. Just out of pure joy in their life for something.
The OP mentions in his blog his son beams whenever he plays the piece. and that is all that really matters at that moment. He asked for some advice on maybe what he could do.
If you cant empathize with that , then I dont know what motive you have for trying to learn piano.


Not even a very good stouch. Remember, everyone is entitled to an opinion even if they are wrong.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

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#2243892 - 03/09/14 08:52 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: peterws]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1388
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: peterws
I remember the first posting I did on these forums; I rubbed up the Piano lot the wrong way.

Realised, but it didn`t stop the flack!
Like ferrets in a sack;
don`t think they`d have been sorry if I didn`t come back . .

my posting got pulled without further assistance from me; shame.


Pity it got pulled I would have gone to nosey research the post.
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

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#2243956 - 03/09/14 11:00 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: wouter79]
FarmGirl Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 1891
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted By: wouter79
Originally Posted By: Tubbie0075


I know this is a place for at lot of people to get support and share and feel good. This is not the place to vent frustration on other people. Remove my membership. I am outta here.

Good luck to you all and the very best with your lives.



LOL relax. You're right, this is not the place to vent frustrations on others. It's a fine line between what people ask and what to tell them. And How to tell them. I'm also learning that here.


Yeah it's really difficult to give feedback. I'm amazed how good many piano teachers are in that department.
_________________________
Solo - Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2, Schubert Sonata D960 Andante sostenute (9/7/14), Bach f minor Fugue WTC Bk1, Rachmaninoff Elegie Op 3 #1, Chopin Trois Nouvelles Etudes #1



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#2244028 - 03/10/14 03:09 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Jostein
can you learn to play the piano like a child ... ? (What does it take?)


I don't believe it is possible to learn to play the piano like a child if you were, in fact, not a child. Your only option is to learn like an adult because that's what you are. To learn like a child, you need to possess physically the mind and body of a child.
_________________________
Art is never finished, only abandoned. - da Vinci

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#2244080 - 03/10/14 06:57 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 575
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
Originally Posted By: Jostein
can you learn to play the piano like a child ... ? (What does it take?)


I don't believe it is possible to learn to play the piano like a child if you were, in fact, not a child. Your only option is to learn like an adult because that's what you are. To learn like a child, you need to possess physically the mind and body of a child.



He may be talking about the order in which a child learns (it's been discussed at Piano Magic). Children learn to talk (by listening and some instruction) before they learn to read. They also learn what a dog, donkey etc. sound like before they can spell/read dog, bark or donkey grin ... maybe they can learn to play a little using their ears before they learn to play by reading a sheet. Maybe adults can too.

Most children develop rhythm before some adults learn how to spell it. tired


Edited by Rerun (03/10/14 07:14 AM)
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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#2244093 - 03/10/14 07:34 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Jostein]
Ataru074 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 287
Loc: Houston, TX
I was going to write a long essay... than I said F* it. time to practice.
_________________________
===============================================
working on:
Bach: BWV 871
Mozart: Kv397
Beethoven: Op 14 #2
Prokofiev: Op.10
Bartok: Notturno
===============================================

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#2244100 - 03/10/14 08:01 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Ataru074]
earlofmar Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/21/13
Posts: 1388
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Ataru074
I was going to write a long essay... than I said F* it. time to practice.



Quite right, this post derailed a long time ago


Edited by earlofmar (03/10/14 08:01 AM)
_________________________
I thought I understood endurance sport; then I took up piano
XXXIV-5-XXX

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#2244124 - 03/10/14 08:45 AM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: 4evrBeginR]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11549
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR

I don't believe it is possible to learn to play the piano like a child if you were, in fact, not a child. Your only option is to learn like an adult because that's what you are. To learn like a child, you need to possess physically the mind and body of a child.

I believe that it is quite important to learn "like a child" but I will qualify what I mean. The first steps in learning to play an instrument should be direct and experience-based. Adults are by nature more cerebral and abstract, as well as more inhibited than children. Playing almost becomes a mental interpretation of what ought to be done and heard, rather than going to it and experiencing things first hand. It's important to get past that.

I think that what the OP did for five years is not childlike. Children explore freely if left to themselves, and they experiment. Working on a single piece for any longer period of time is not what a child would do.

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#2244829 - 03/11/14 04:31 PM Re: 5 years, one piece [Re: Tubbie0075]
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 1383
Loc: Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted By: Tubbie0075
First of all, there are no easy ways to learn the piano. There are only two ways to learn the piano: the hard way and the impossible way.


Great quote.

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