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#2242946 - 03/07/14 11:11 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8113
Loc: New York City
What about the C minor from Book 2?
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#2242950 - 03/07/14 11:20 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Polyphonist]
Hrodulf Offline
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I thought about that one but it just didn't seem like one to me in the same way the g major from book I was. It didn't strike me as a piece that worked if played at toccata speed.
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2242952 - 03/07/14 11:21 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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#2242953 - 03/07/14 11:23 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
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If you just compare it to the b flat major Book I you'll see what I mean.
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2242955 - 03/07/14 11:24 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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I don't see what you mean.
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#2242964 - 03/08/14 12:18 AM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
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Posts: 842
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It works if you play it fast because it's a repeated spelled out chordal passage. It's just like similar figures in the organ toccata and fugue in d minor.
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2242968 - 03/08/14 12:31 AM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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I don't see your point. Just because it's one type of toccata doesn't mean it's the only type.
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#2243070 - 03/08/14 10:40 AM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
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Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
I never said there was only one type of toccata
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243077 - 03/08/14 10:58 AM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
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Here I'll make it clearer:

Organ Toccata and Fugue in d minor (toccata):



B flat major prelude book I:

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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243226 - 03/08/14 03:03 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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Loc: New York City
Why are you obsessing over comparing these two pieces?
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Polyphonist

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#2243317 - 03/08/14 06:51 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Polyphonist]
Hrodulf Offline
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Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Why are you obsessing over comparing these two pieces?


It's just a thought I had.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243318 - 03/08/14 06:54 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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Posts: 8113
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Again: why is the C minor prelude from book 2 not a toccata? The answer is not "because it isn't like the B flat major prelude from book 1."
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Polyphonist

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#2243334 - 03/08/14 08:06 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
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Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Maybe it is one, I didn't think it was one because the melody line wasn't one that I considered to be particularly virtuosic.
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243376 - 03/08/14 11:30 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2173
Loc: Canada
This is a Toccata (and fugue) by Bach, and doesn't match any of your arbitrary criteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAPJwjzvdh8
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#2243381 - 03/08/14 11:45 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Hrodulf Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
At least can we agree the b flat major is one? Maybe I'm wrong about trying to define a musical style, but the b flat major seems to obviously be a toccata. Look at the scores. Can we agree to disagree on the rest of them? It's obviously a subjective decision about the nature of the pieces and how they're played.
_________________________
Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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#2243383 - 03/08/14 11:55 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Hrodulf]
Polyphonist Offline
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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8113
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Hrodulf
At least can we agree the b flat major is one?

When have I disputed that?
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Polyphonist

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#2243384 - 03/08/14 11:56 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Kuanpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 8113
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
This is a Toccata (and fugue) by Bach, and doesn't match any of your arbitrary criteria.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAPJwjzvdh8

I'm not sure about that.
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Polyphonist

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#2243385 - 03/08/14 11:57 PM Re: Which preludes from the well tempered clavier are toccatas? [Re: Polyphonist]
Hrodulf Offline
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Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 842
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
When have I disputed that?


Good, compromise?


Edited by Hrodulf (03/09/14 12:00 AM)
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Learning:
J.S. Bach wtc book II prelude 19
Chopin G Minor Ballade No. 1

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