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#2245226 - 03/12/14 09:10 AM New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014
Jason85 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/15/14
Posts: 14
The true grand piano experience has never been more accessible than with our new Clavinova CLP Series. Complex sample sets, painstakingly borrowed from Yamaha’s flagship CFX concert grand, plus the magnificent Bösendorfer Imperial, offer a unique choice of sound.

http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/mus...s/?mode=series#

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#2245451 - 03/12/14 04:36 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
Hmm. Wireless LAN adapter, finally. I like these models. I'd love to trade up, but I fear my current model has just dropped 50% in value. frown
_________________________
Playing: Yamaha GC2

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#2245528 - 03/12/14 06:36 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Yes, it looks to be interesting although in comparing the specs of the CLP-585 to the CLP-480 (which I own) the only improvements are the new sample sets with the "VRM" (Virtual Resonance Modeling) and the escapement simulation which has been added to the same "NW" (Natural Wood) action.

Other than that, unless the VRM feature adds in modeling parameters (or, changes that can be made to the sounds other than "brilliance" and "reverb") then I do not see a big advantage going to the new models.

Also, the specs indicate only 180 watts in the new CLP-585 whereas the the CLP-480 has 200 watts. Shouldn't the new model be equal, here?

I do not see too many advantages with the new model except for the escapement simulation and VRM.

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#2245536 - 03/12/14 06:54 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
toddy Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1684
Loc: Portugal
Looks to me as if Yamaha have responded to a wake up call. Looks as if the three big DP makers are running neck and neck in the 'hot zone' of the mid to upper range: Kawai CA/ CS ranges, Roland HP/ LX models and the new Yamaha CLPs. Same with keyboards for stage: CP4/ MP11/ RD800. Some great stuff there.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2245539 - 03/12/14 07:07 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: pv88]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Extra note:

I wanted to correct myself as I was wrong in assuming that the new CLP-585 did not have acoustic guitar presets as I found it does - as there are both "nylon" and "steel string" guitar sounds and this can be found in downloading the owner's manuals, here:

http://europe.yamaha.com/en/products/mus...585/?mode=model

Click on the "Support" tab to see the PDF files.

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#2245558 - 03/12/14 07:52 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3815
Loc: North Carolina
There might be some new value in the 585 ... maybe. But key weights? Why? The mechanism is compact and there are no real hammers. So why bother? Anyway, I'll have to find a local dealer and try one on.

Aside from the 585, it seems like Yamaha has just changed the cabinets, thrown in some new marketing buzz words, and called it a day.

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#2245581 - 03/12/14 08:42 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: MacMacMac]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: MacMacMac
There might be some new value in the 585 ... maybe. But key weights? Why? The mechanism is compact and there are no real hammers. So why bother? Anyway, I'll have to find a local dealer and try one on.

Aside from the 585, it seems like Yamaha has just changed the cabinets, thrown in some new marketing buzz words, and called it a day.


Agreed, as there are minimal improvements (if any) as compared with the CLP-480. My older CLP-990M still has a better action!

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#2245586 - 03/12/14 08:48 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: pv88]
Daniel Corban Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/17/13
Posts: 215
Loc: Canada
I didn't find the USD price, but the UK MSRP of 585 is £900 less than the 480. That is more than a minimal improvement.

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#2245692 - 03/13/14 12:20 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Daniel Corban]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2630
Originally Posted By: Daniel Corban
I didn't find the USD price, but the UK MSRP of 585 is £900 less than the 480.


Yes, selling the CLP-585 for less money than the CLP-480 may make it a better deal (or more attractive offer) although the specifications on their own are only on a par with the CLP-480.

The only improvements (i.e., different features) are:

1) VRM samples - CFX grand / Bosendorfer Imperial grand
2) Escapement simulation

Otherwise, the NW (Natural Wood) keys are the same as well as the three-sensor action along with 256 polyphony.

The CLP-480 has 200 watt speakers whereas the CLP-585 only has 180 watt speakers - why less power?

And, there appears to be no "88-key" sampling in the CLP-585.

I see very little advantage going to the new model.

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#2245748 - 03/13/14 04:12 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: pv88]
WaterDweller Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 13
Originally Posted By: pv88
And, there appears to be no "88-key" sampling in the CLP-585.


From the features tab: "Both of these superb pianos' Voices are featured in the Clavinova. Tuned to perfection by a highly experienced piano technician with the sound from each key sampled individually, Clavinova truly captures the unique tonal character of each of these outstanding instruments."

EDIT: Just realized that you quoted this bit in the other thread. Man, I need to get with it. :P


Edited by WaterDweller (03/13/14 04:19 AM)

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#2246088 - 03/13/14 06:03 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: pv88]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3815
Loc: North Carolina
Is there really a difference?
Originally Posted By: pv88
The CLP-480 has 200 watt speakers whereas the CLP-585 only has 180 watt speakers - why less power?
Even if we believe the power specs (which we cannot, since they give no indication of the conditions under which they're measured), and even if we ever see peak output at such power levels ... the difference between 200 watts and 180 watts is a mere 0.46 dB. Some people can just BARELY hear a difference so small. Many cannot.

Conclusion #1: Don't judge by the amplifier power specs.

The 585's speakers themselves, if they differ from the 480 model, could make a bigger difference. But don't expect to find that in a spec sheet.

Conclusion #2: Ignore the specs. Trust your ears.

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#2246094 - 03/13/14 06:25 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 381
Loc: Poland
Agree with Mac Mac. BTW 40W amplifiers like 40-60W amplifiers is much enough to make a huge noise throught the normal spekaers smile

So if any of you is bothering bout power... yes, it make sense if it's 5 or 40, but anything >100W in case of home digital piano... another parameters for people who are deaf and make the opinions based on numbers.

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#2246344 - 03/14/14 05:42 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
The proof will be in the playing. But the way I see it is that this is the biggest single advance in Clavinovas ever...

CFX for the first time on a Clav. And for the first time ever on any Yamaha DP a non Yamaha piano, the Bosendorfer. Two distinctly different pianos. Given that the sound of the piano IS the piano then I would say this is a massive change from the 400 series.

And also for the first time on any Yamaha DP, escapement simulation.

More piano like form factor in accordance with the current trend.

Will be interesting to see what the Bosendorfer sample is like....
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Yamaha CP1

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#2246349 - 03/14/14 05:58 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
derya Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/01/14
Posts: 10
Escapement, VRM, CFX, NWX keys and the Bösendorfer seem to be the main improvements. I can't wait to check it out.
_________________________
Roland HP508 CB

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#2246350 - 03/14/14 05:59 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 804
Well non-Yamaha... Bösendorfer is owned by Yamaha since a few years.

Still, this has my attention. I'm a big fan of the Bösi in the Nord Piano Library (and of their real grands) so I'll be interested in Yamaha's digitized version... If it trickles down to a portable practice piano such as the P355 it might be worth a look wink
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Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#2246352 - 03/14/14 06:04 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: maurus]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: maurus
Well non-Yamaha... Bösendorfer is owned by Yamaha since a few years.


I know that but a Bosendorfer is not a Yamaha! At least there will be some tonal variety for the player to choose from. I'm hoping this marks the beginning of the end of the nonsense from the likes of Yamaha and Kawai who were just offering multiple EQ'd versions of the same piano. I think the Nord influence is clear here. People want choice!
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#2246353 - 03/14/14 06:06 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 804
Agreed of course, Steve!
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#2246373 - 03/14/14 07:16 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: EssBrace]
peterws Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 3605
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Originally Posted By: maurus
Well non-Yamaha... Bösendorfer is owned by Yamaha since a few years.


I know that but a Bosendorfer is not a Yamaha! At least there will be some tonal variety for the player to choose from. I'm hoping this marks the beginning of the end of the nonsense from the likes of Yamaha and Kawai who were just offering multiple EQ'd versions of the same piano. I think the Nord influence is clear here. People want choice!


Have to chip in here for what it`s worth. My old CLP820 had two distinctly different pianos. The second one was mono (might have had some bass/treble shift between the speakers) and sounded like a Monington acoustic grand I played at church. My last DGX630 also had 2 distinctly different pianos, both stereo. The second badly sampled one still had a lovely unique (to that model, and the 620) sound which I used mainly. Dammit! I do miss it . . .
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#2246424 - 03/14/14 09:33 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: peterws]
marbru Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 4
Loc: belgium
The nice thing about new series is the model CLP-525 for about 1300 EUR in Europe. That is 300 Eur cheaper than predecessor CLP-430 which allows Yamaha to compete with Kawai CN-24 and Casio Privia/Celviano. Especially when Casio and then Kawai (CN-14/CN-24) released new models making 4xx series Yamahas 'too little for too much'.

And then you have wooden keys CLP-545 version for 200 EUR cheaper than 4xx series. However it's still 500 EUR more than cheapest wooden keys Kawai CA-15:)


Edited by marbru (03/14/14 09:39 AM)

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#2247022 - 03/15/14 01:32 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 804
This afternoon I tried two of the new Clavinovas at Musikmesse in Frankfurt. As usual it was very noisy on visitors' day, and Yamaha offered lousy headphones to check out their DP's. So it was impossible to listen to the details of the new sounds. However switching back and forth between the CFX and the Bösendorfer samples it was obvious that they have invested in adding a significantly different piano to their palette indeed. It would have been nice to listen to it a bit more carefully - but that's Musikmesse...


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#2247033 - 03/15/14 02:13 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4343
Loc: Northern NJ
Wow, a Bosie sample, improved sympathetic resonance, and NWX keys. Yamaha actually seems to be somewhat aware of what's going on around them.

Too bad about the (almost certain) stretching and looping.

Uh-oh, I got off the boat and read too much:

"It is not only the full realization of the sound, the touch and the pedals, but the application of technologies nurtured by crafting acoustic pianos to perfectly integrate..."

*dry heaves*

Instead of paying yo-yos good money to write this flowery prose, couldn't they instead hire some EEs who know their way around modern electronics? Well designed products sell themselves to some degree.
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#2247061 - 03/15/14 03:24 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2395
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
From the paper specs at least at this early stage it would appear that Yamaha have realised they were previously getting squeezed out - at least for the technically aware enthusiast that might frequent this forum.

I think they'd lost their USP unless you count Yamaha's ubiquity as a USP. Kawai are all about key action and Roland all about sound engine. Yamaha got wrong-footed by the advances of the other two.

I know it's just marketing blurb at the moment but the little bit of info out there is talking about long samples and it would seem that they have identified resonance as an area to up their game as well - or at least up their hyperbole! Without Kawai and Roland using simulated escapement I very much doubt Yamaha would have gone down that road either.

What Yamaha have always had - and it is a very subjective judgement around which they couldn't really get much marketing or indeed engineering leverage - is that they just sound good. Big, fat and musical. They are more satisfying to play than the paper specs would have you think. Supernatural has really got a foothold in our consciousness now and Yamaha seemed almost unable to counter-strike.

Anyway, good luck to the new Clavs - I'm certainly not in the market for one but on the face of it at least Yamaha is back in the race.
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Yamaha CP1

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#2247145 - 03/15/14 06:27 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9149
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dewster
Instead of paying yo-yos good money to write this flowery prose, couldn't they instead hire some EEs who know their way around modern electronics? Well designed products sell themselves to some degree.


As always, you're being over-simplistic.

Marketing and R&D are almost certainly separate divisions. Reducing the budget of one will not automatically increase the spending of another.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2247164 - 03/15/14 07:09 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3815
Loc: North Carolina
How true, KJ. And anyway, what evidence is there that Yamaha needs to boost their engineering?

Better pianos don't start from engineering. They start at the marketing stage. Engineers only design what marketing wants to sell.

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#2247184 - 03/15/14 08:09 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 381
Loc: Poland
Heh,
good pianos should start from the point "how to make most realistic thing, within budget, r&d costs are expected margin", sadly, but it's truth.

However, I would like also for Yamaha to move one milion USD from marketing to R&D and make their pianos competition killers.
Their grands sound completely different from Clavinovas... especially the sustatain... and if the sustain in longh enough, than the all piano in not nice to play on.

However, I will play on them before I will buy my piano, still one more month to wait frown

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#2247269 - 03/16/14 12:42 AM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: marbru]
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 1607
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: marbru
The nice thing about new series is the model CLP-525 for about 1300 EUR in Europe. That is 300 Eur cheaper than predecessor CLP-430 ....


I noticed the CLP-525 has the CFIIIS piano sound only (no CFX, no Imperial). It also has some lower spec in some areas than the CLP-430 like no recording to wav where the 430 could. If I was buying between those two I would prefer the 430.
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#2247433 - 03/16/14 12:23 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: 4evrBeginR]
Phlox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 120
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: 4evrBeginR
Originally Posted By: marbru
The nice thing about new series is the model CLP-525 for about 1300 EUR in Europe. That is 300 Eur cheaper than predecessor CLP-430 ....


I noticed the CLP-525 has the CFIIIS piano sound only (no CFX, no Imperial). It also has some lower spec in some areas than the CLP-430 like no recording to wav where the 430 could. If I was buying between those two I would prefer the 430.

Or buy the CLP-535. Then you have both the CFX and the Bösendorfer Imperial. Here the CLP-430 and CLP-535 cost the same.
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#2247564 - 03/16/14 05:00 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Phlox]
TrollToddington Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 19
Yesterday I was at the Musikmesse and tried out the new CLPs. The new 585 is what is worth to be had. It's got a new keyboard action which enables the player to play pianissimo more easily. The 585 is distinctively better than the rest of CLPs. Yamaha had hired a professional pianist to showcase the model and the differences between Yamaha and Bösendorfer samples.

It's not an Avanguard (or however this is spelled), it's not a NU1, but is a very close third. The price is about 3900 Euro (4300 with the polished ebony finish)

The rest ( 575 and the others ) felt too much like the present 400 series in order to be given a more in-depth test drive.

I agree with the other poster, Yamaha provides us with lousy headphones which do not isolate the player from the surrounding noise. I was not able to check out the length of the note sustain. But then again, there were no less than 1000 people in the hall where Yamaha demonstrates its products. There are demonstrations of a grand piano, drums and Tyros 5 at the same time all day long. Maybe the conditions would be better on Friday afternoon, when the Messe opens to the public.

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#2247568 - 03/16/14 05:09 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: Jason85]
MacMacMac Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 3815
Loc: North Carolina
So, dewster: After analyzing millions of pianos with looping looping looping looping ... maybe this 585 is the one that will finally break the pattern?

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#2247569 - 03/16/14 05:10 PM Re: New Yamaha CLP 500 Series Release May 2014 [Re: TrollToddington]
Morodiene Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 11902
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: TrollToddington


It's not an Avanguard (or however this is spelled),


Ah yes, the avantguarde: for the slightly eccentric DP experience. cool

Seriously, though, seems like there are some Yamaha haters here. The Clavs have always been a good-quality Dp AFAIK, if a bit on the pricey side. If the price has come down and they've added a few things, all the better.
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