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#2251247 - 03/24/14 03:27 AM Hard to keep the beat
johan d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/14
Posts: 110
Loc: Belgium
Hello,

Just a month with a piano teacher and we are doing solfege music reading + hand clapping in rythm for 4 weeks. I find it hard to keep the beat without metronome. My teacher says a should pratice music reading without metronome, learning to feel a psysical beat in my body to keep in rithm.

Now i've tried to tap with my feet, but what's the correct way for doing it. example 2/4, should i tap twice, and 3/4 should i tap 3 times, or should a tap once per beat, or just what i find the easiest way? Are there any other good methods for learning this, or does it come al of the sudden while pratcising?

thx, Johan


Edited by johan d (03/24/14 03:27 AM)

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#2251310 - 03/24/14 09:03 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12043
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: johan d
Hello,

Just a month with a piano teacher and we are doing solfege music reading + hand clapping in rythm for 4 weeks. I find it hard to keep the beat without metronome. My teacher says a should pratice music reading without metronome, learning to feel a psysical beat in my body to keep in rithm.

Now i've tried to tap with my feet, but what's the correct way for doing it. example 2/4, should i tap twice, and 3/4 should i tap 3 times, or should a tap once per beat, or just what i find the easiest way? Are there any other good methods for learning this, or does it come al of the sudden while pratcising?

thx, Johan
You are saying the same thing above here. in 2/4 the top number means how many beats per measure, the bottom number tells you what kind of note gets one beat (in this case 4=quarter note). So to tap the beats in 2/4 you would tap two times per measure, or in 3/4 you'd tap 3 times per measure. Just keep in mind that it should be like the ticking of a clock or like the sound of a metronome. You don't really hear measures at first when learning to sightread rhythms. You will eventually hear how beat one in a measure gets a little more stress either melodically or with a slight stress or accent on that beat. But that will come with time. At first, the beat keeps on going, so you tap and just match your notes or clapping with that beat.

Do you count the beats out loud? This is crucial even if your counting at first has some stops and starts.

Also, be very careful you are picking rhythms that are not too advanced for you. Start with easy and work your way up. Also, don't start with a fast beat, but pick a beat that is very, very slow, something that you are confident you can do the passage well.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2251315 - 03/24/14 09:22 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: Morodiene]
johan d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/14
Posts: 110
Loc: Belgium
Thx for the reply
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
You are saying the same thing above here. in 2/4 the top number means how many beats per measure, the bottom number tells you what kind of note gets one beat (in this case 4=quarter note). So to tap the beats in 2/4 you would tap two times per measure, or in 3/4 you'd tap 3 times per measure.
My mistake, i meant per measure, not per beat. But I understood I should tap 2 times per measure when 2/4 and 3 times per measure when 3/4

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
But that will come with time.
Reassuring

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Do you count the beats out loud? This is crucial even if your counting at first has some stops and starts.
No, I sing the notes out loud (do, re, mi,...). or don't i understand your point?

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Also, be very careful you are picking rhythms that are not too advanced for you. Start with easy and work your way up. Also, don't start with a fast beat, but pick a beat that is very, very slow, something that you are confident you can do the passage well.

Only working with 2/4, 3/4 and 4/4 at the moment @75bpm maximum.

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#2251321 - 03/24/14 09:39 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
rnaple Offline

Silver Supporter until April 24 2014


Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 2107
Loc: Rocky Mountains
I still remember from when I was a kid in band. We always tapped our heels. Counted in our minds at the same time.
That crept into my body. It's easy and natural to me to keep count now.
_________________________
Ron
Your brain is a sponge. Keep it wet. Mary Gae George
The focus of your personal practice is discipline. Not numbers. Scott Sonnon

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#2251323 - 03/24/14 09:46 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 12043
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: johan d
Thx for the reply
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
You are saying the same thing above here. in 2/4 the top number means how many beats per measure, the bottom number tells you what kind of note gets one beat (in this case 4=quarter note). So to tap the beats in 2/4 you would tap two times per measure, or in 3/4 you'd tap 3 times per measure.
My mistake, i meant per measure, not per beat. But I understood I should tap 2 times per measure when 2/4 and 3 times per measure when 3/4

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
But that will come with time.
Reassuring

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Do you count the beats out loud? This is crucial even if your counting at first has some stops and starts.
No, I sing the notes out loud (do, re, mi,...). or don't i understand your point?

Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Also, be very careful you are picking rhythms that are not too advanced for you. Start with easy and work your way up. Also, don't start with a fast beat, but pick a beat that is very, very slow, something that you are confident you can do the passage well.

Only working with 2/4, 3/4 and 4/4 at the moment @75bpm maximum.


Depending on the complexity of the rhythm and subdivisions of the beat (8th notes, 16th notes, etc.) this speed may be too fast.

As for counting out loud, this is what you would do while playing piano or while clapping a rhythm. If you are doing solfeggio, I recommend first clapping and counting the rhythm before trying to then read the solfeg. When we sight read we are deciphering rhythm and pitch, so it's necessary sometimes to break these out into two separate activities: do rhythm-only exercises and pitch-only exercises (a melody all in quarter notes for example).

To count out loud while clapping, you first need to look at your time signature and your smallest note value in the example. Let's say you are in 4/4 time and your smallest note value is a quarter note. Your counting would be, "1-2-3-4". If you are in 4/4 time and your smallest note value is an 8th note, your counting would be, "1&2&3&4&" even if you don't have 8th notes on that particular beat.

This is something your teacher should try to explain to you, however, as it's much easier to do in person than on a forum.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2251340 - 03/24/14 10:52 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
ShannonG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/14
Posts: 135
Loc: Canada
I count in my head, as I find any superfluous physical movement distracting. And counting definitely helps your rhythm become second nature after a while. Don't give up; a month is not a long time!
_________________________
How did I end up with 3 pianos? Starting to think I may need a 12 step program...

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#2251348 - 03/24/14 11:09 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
zrtf90 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 2409
Loc: Ireland (ex England)
Counting out loud or with a physical action such as tensing a muscle or tapping a foot is less likely to be subjected to mental time stretching.

Time is the most important attribute of music so it may be better to learn to play while counting rather than learning to count while playing.
_________________________
Richard

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#2251387 - 03/24/14 12:58 PM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Registered: 06/26/12
Posts: 987
Loc: Italy
Basic Timing for the Pianist is a nice little book/ebook with 105 rhythmic exercises that one can clap or play on the piano (very easy 5-finger positions). I did a page a day over a couple of months and found it beneficial. Especially while sight-reading, it is very useful to be able to recognize rhythmic patterns at first sight and "hear" them in your head instead of having to count everything.
_________________________
Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
Martha Argerich... is an incarnation of the artistic metaphor of the "eternal feminine" that draws us upward. (Sergio Sablich)

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#2251682 - 03/24/14 11:56 PM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: johan d]
Dave B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 1973
Loc: Philadelphia area
Try going out for a walk. Just feel your steps. You don't need to count.

Sometimes I find myself trying to follow a beat rather than 'creating' the beat. The piano can create an amazing array of rhythms. Have fun.

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#2251755 - 03/25/14 03:05 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: Dave B]
johan d Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/20/14
Posts: 110
Loc: Belgium
Thanks for all tips&tricks. I do recognize a lot of them, but actually creating a beat yourself and stick to it while reading, is still hard for me. We'll see in a couple of month if it gets any better (becomes a 2nd nature)

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#2251775 - 03/25/14 07:08 AM Re: Hard to keep the beat [Re: Dave B]
Rerun Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 610
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Dave B
Try going out for a walk. Just feel your steps. You don't need to count.

Sometimes I find myself trying to follow a beat rather than 'creating' the beat. The piano can create an amazing array of rhythms. Have fun.


Yep an old boot camp trick ... the army threw in rhythm and voice lessons along with the extreme haircut. 4/4 only tho ... no waltzing allowed. grin


Edited by Rerun (03/25/14 07:22 AM)
_________________________
Rerun

"Seat of the pants piano player" DMD







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