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#2251741 - 03/25/14 02:26 AM Distance between the Black Keys . . ?
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
In particular, G and A which are the tightest. (G is tightest of all) I`d be most interested in the results for comparison . . .Keys are tapered of course. And rounded off at the top.

Don`t I ask awkward questions? grin

Here we go. Joe . . .

GHS . . . .

D 16 and 18mm

A 15.5 and 17.25

G 15 and 16.75 . . .


Edited by peterws (03/25/14 05:46 AM)
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"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

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#2251759 - 03/25/14 04:54 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1807
Originally Posted By: peterws
Don`t I ask awkward questions? grin

Yeah! On all of my keyboards G and A are white! Very little distance between them, too eek
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2251776 - 03/25/14 07:20 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
Jean-Luc Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/19/12
Posts: 322
Loc: France
If you have big finger, this subject was also mentioned here : http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2122208/Re:_Between_black_keys.html#Post2122208 with some measurement comparing a P155 to a CA65 smile
_________________________
- Please, forgive my bad English smile

Jean-Luc

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#2251786 - 03/25/14 07:56 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: Jean-Luc]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
Thanks, Jean . . appreciate!

I just looked at that posting. The Kawai has thinner black keys. Considerably thinner. . . James, you`re backing the right horse . . .


Edited by peterws (03/25/14 08:08 AM)
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2251788 - 03/25/14 08:00 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2778
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: peterws
Don`t I ask awkward questions? grin


Awkward? I suppose so.
Pointless? Absolutely.

There must be something on the telly to distract you from this rubbish Peter!
_________________________
Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CP1 | Physis H1

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#2251791 - 03/25/14 08:10 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: EssBrace]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
Well, I got the info I wanted. My next piano will be a Kawai . . . Not so pointless really.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2251907 - 03/25/14 01:57 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
David Farley Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 1008
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
This has been covered here before, and it's known that the keys on the Yamaha YPG/DGX series are narrower than standard.

http://www.randyhoexter.com/?p=520

But is there a real standard for piano or just some generally accepted parameters? The American Guild of Organists and their equivalents in other countries actually publish specifications for organ components. When someone buys a component that meets AGO specifications they know exactly what they're getting.

http://www.savetheorgan.org/kbase/ago_specs/agoconsole.pdf

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#2251918 - 03/25/14 02:30 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: David Farley]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
The keys on the hammer action DGXs and YPGs are "standard" octaves and 150mm length. It`s just the black keys are somewhat fatter than some others.. . .and Kawais are thinner. , . eh bien . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2251942 - 03/25/14 03:22 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
Marcos Daniel Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 06/07/13
Posts: 258
Loc: Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...

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#2252160 - 03/26/14 12:18 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: Marcos Daniel]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1807
Originally Posted By: Marcos Daniel
This could be interesting:
http://www.quadibloc.com/other/cnv05.htm

Wow, that's some serious science, no kidding!

I wonder though, how much of that is still valid in light of numerically controlled CNC machines that have 'infinite' resolution ('infinite' for all practical purposes)
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2252185 - 03/26/14 01:33 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
evamar Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/02/12
Posts: 579
Loc: Spanish living in UK
Peterws, I don't have particularly fat fingers, but I do wish that they were longer. I can actually fit my thumb in between the Kawai black keys...

That and the fact that the keys are so long that it's just as easy to press them at the start or at the end definitely made it for me. As well as other features, of course, but having keys that can simply be played without extra funny movements or effort is quite important.
_________________________
Serious since Dec 2013. March 2014, Kawai CA95!

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted



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#2252269 - 03/26/14 08:44 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 446
Loc: Dorset, England
Personally I want a keyboard that replicates an acoustic in design and realisation as closely as possible although I would like to try a keyboard where a low narrow ridge moulded into the key runs along the top centre of all the black notes.

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#2252937 - 03/27/14 10:38 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: slipperykeys]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Personally I want a keyboard that replicates an acoustic in design and realisation as closely as possible although I would like to try a keyboard where a low narrow ridge moulded into the key runs along the top centre of all the black notes.


Would the ridge be to stop the finger slipping off? As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2252948 - 03/27/14 10:58 AM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1807
Originally Posted By: peterws
... As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .

I like GHS, I don't have the usual 'nose up on GHS' opinion. If it had somewhat longer keys (somewhat easier chords with thumb on black key) I wouldn't mind at all having GHS as my main DP action eek
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#2252991 - 03/27/14 12:14 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: doremi]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
My thoughts too, mainly or I wouldn`t have bought into this. It is light as well, which I like; but I have a problem on some pieces because of the black keys and my fingers. The Kawais do much better keys, but their instruments weren`t what I wanted at this time.
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2253024 - 03/27/14 01:19 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
Lester Burnham Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/29/13
Posts: 640
Originally Posted By: peterws
"I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe


Speaking of Eric Morecambe, I bought the sheet music to "Bring me Sunshine" a while back!

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#2253033 - 03/27/14 01:36 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 446
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: peterws

Would the ridge be to stop the finger slipping off? As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .


Yes, that is exactly why. I would like to try it, I think it would particularly improve stride piano for the more dim-witted like myself. A very mild ridge, but with a definite edge. I would think it might be quite easy to mould and worth testing on a plastic keyboard.

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#2262579 - 04/16/14 12:22 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 276
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: peterws
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Personally I want a keyboard that replicates an acoustic in design and realisation as closely as possible although I would like to try a keyboard where a low narrow ridge moulded into the key runs along the top centre of all the black notes.


Would the ridge be to stop the finger slipping off? As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .


I have noticed recently going back and forth between my GHS action P-35 and other DP's and acoustics that they generally feel easier to play on than the P-35. Some of the actions are considerably more tiring but overall I feel as if I have more margin for error and make fewer mistakes.

I do find the gap between black keys is narrower on the P-35 than anything else I've tried DP or AP ( maybe that's a standard for GHS DPs). The keys quickly become stiffer and less responsive as I move up into the keys and are particularly difficult right at the back. I also find the keys to be quite slippery compared to the decent DP and APs. Other actions feel like they have a better weight and response to them too.

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#2262627 - 04/16/14 02:36 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: Enthusiast]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Originally Posted By: peterws
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Personally I want a keyboard that replicates an acoustic in design and realisation as closely as possible although I would like to try a keyboard where a low narrow ridge moulded into the key runs along the top centre of all the black notes.


Would the ridge be to stop the finger slipping off? As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .


I have noticed recently going back and forth between my GHS action P-35 and other DP's and acoustics that they generally feel easier to play on than the P-35. Some of the actions are considerably more tiring but overall I feel as if I have more margin for error and make fewer mistakes.

I do find the gap between black keys is narrower on the P-35 than anything else I've tried DP or AP ( maybe that's a standard for GHS DPs). The keys quickly become stiffer and less responsive as I move up into the keys and are particularly difficult right at the back. I also find the keys to be quite slippery compared to the decent DP and APs. Other actions feel like they have a better weight and response to them too.



I think GHS is intended for younger students who have littler fingers. The only reason I (quite) like it is because it is very light. A bit of arthritis is creeping in here, and playing the piano I have (DGX650) keeps things moving along nicely with no adverse effects. Now, that`s personal to me . .but the Kawai keyboards, almost all of them, seem darned good. Plenty of room between the black notes!
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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#2262633 - 04/16/14 02:50 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: Enthusiast]
spanishbuddha Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 2823
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: Enthusiast
Originally Posted By: peterws
Originally Posted By: slipperykeys
Personally I want a keyboard that replicates an acoustic in design and realisation as closely as possible although I would like to try a keyboard where a low narrow ridge moulded into the key runs along the top centre of all the black notes.


Would the ridge be to stop the finger slipping off? As for the keyboard, mine, being GHS means ANYTHING else I play is going to be better and playable. That includes acoustics . . . .


I have noticed recently going back and forth between my GHS action P-35 and other DP's and acoustics that they generally feel easier to play on than the P-35. Some of the actions are considerably more tiring but overall I feel as if I have more margin for error and make fewer mistakes.

I do find the gap between black keys is narrower on the P-35 than anything else I've tried DP or AP ( maybe that's a standard for GHS DPs). The keys quickly become stiffer and less responsive as I move up into the keys and are particularly difficult right at the back. I also find the keys to be quite slippery compared to the decent DP and APs. Other actions feel like they have a better weight and response to them too.


The problem with the P35/P105 keys is their length to the pivot is very short. I don't know if all Yamaha GHS instruments are like this, but that explains the 'stiffer and less responsive as I move up into the keys', IMHO.

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#2262662 - 04/16/14 03:55 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: peterws]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5576
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
For the vast majority of black keys the distance between them is one whole step
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website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Yamaha CP5 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones

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#2262669 - 04/16/14 04:05 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: Dave Horne]
ando Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 4767
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
For the vast majority of black keys the distance between them is one whole step


Actually that's the interval between them, not the distance. Distance is measured in mm or inches. grin

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#2262673 - 04/16/14 04:12 PM Re: Distance between the Black Keys . . ? [Re: ando]
peterws Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/21/12
Posts: 5447
Loc: Northern England.
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
For the vast majority of black keys the distance between them is one whole step


Actually that's the interval between them, not the distance. Distance is measured in mm or inches. grin


And angle of taper . . .
_________________________
"I'm playing all the right notes � but not necessarily in the right order." Eric Morecambe

""

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