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#2254629 - 03/31/14 02:35 AM Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10
B Minor Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 5
Hello everybody,
I would like to kindly ask you if you've ever tried the digital pianos mentioned.
I've been in a piano shop last Saturday and there were only the CA 65, CA 95 and CS 10 available. The CS 10 sounded definitely better than any other while I could barely recognize a difference among the CA 65 and CA 95.
Unfortunately, the CS 10 was the last one and already sold with re-order time of at least 6 months.
Since the CS 7 wasn't available but can be ordered pretty easily, I was wondering if some of you tried the CS 7 and could compare its sound to the one of the CS 10.
In essence, would you recommend the CS 7 as an alternative to the CS 10? Or is it better to buy one of the CA-Series pianos?
Thank you very much.

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#2254658 - 03/31/14 04:54 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Motorsto Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 8
CS7 is a great DP. From the list, I have played all except t from CS10, but ironically that was my choice, even the back order situation. Why? Between ca65 and ca95 there is huge difference in feeling and sound or at least this is what I feel. If you use headphones you dont notice anything is because there is no difference between both, but when using speakers and soundboard, I can really notice of how different they are.

Same situation will go between cs7 an 10, the only difference is the PE finish if we compare against the 65 and 95 respectively. In my case, I wanted that besides of a good sound and action, I also liked a nice piece of furniture. Unfortunately ca95, which is the common sense choice, brings a cheapo ikea like furniture to your living room, and if that is not a concern for you, that would be the perfect choice, even over cs7.

One the other hand, you may want a nice piece of furniture, but as commented by you, you didnt feel any difference between ca65 and 95, then cs7 is your right choice. If you cannot perceive it (the difference) it is no worth to pay the big extra between cs7 and 10. You will be happy with the cs7.

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#2254661 - 03/31/14 05:11 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
B Minor, may I ask in which country you are living?

6 months seems like quite a long wait for a CS10, however I'm not directly involved with sales...

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2254663 - 03/31/14 05:17 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
B Minor Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 5
Hello James,
of course you can.
I live in Germany and the shop told me that, due to the high demand of CS 10, the first possible delivery date would be in the Autumn 2014.

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#2254739 - 03/31/14 09:16 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: Kawai James]
Motorsto Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 8
Hi James,

I'm in Canada but in terms if distribution is the same kawai America, and I initially bought the cs7 november last year. I initially was told that it would take 2 weeks to have it at home. Well, end of February, and i never got the piano delivered, contacted kawai US directly and I was told that probably by April, so after almost 3 months, tried almost any available alternative, and with my brain pissed off because of the delay and without nothing at home, as I took me less than 2 weeks to sell my old Casio Privia, I was lucky to go to Chicago for business purposes, and found a store with the 3 mentioned pianos on the floor, to be compared side by side, and then I changed my mind: I didn't want the cs7 anymore but the cs10, just feeling the difference bettween ca 65 and 95.

Went back to my dealer in Montreal and told them, that as I havent received the piano yet, I wanted to switch to cs10 but I explicitely told them I expected to receive a delivery day commitment. After 2 weeks, I finally receive the notice. I had to wait til end of May to get it delivered. What? So almost 6 moths without nothing at home? Then the dealer, admitting that I have had enough patience, and seeing I was about to go somewhere else, decided smartly to lend me a portable kawai they use for rent to take it to home, no charge, while the cs10 comes.

So I decided to give kawai another chance, and I am waiting to the end of May. So end of November until May
Are exactly 6 months.

My consolation hope? As there is not more K2, but now K200, and as Cs10 is a digital in a k2 box, hopefully you may change tthe dp to new box, as it doesnt make sense to have 2 lines of production for almost the same box. New k200 is prettier than k2. So hopefully my not supported guess tells me I can be in the initial batch?... time will say it, unless you can give some news in advance

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#2254744 - 03/31/14 09:26 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9152
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Motorsto, I'm sorry to read about these unsatisfactory delays with the CS instruments. I'm not involved with the production and manufacturing side of the business, however clearly there are difficulties meeting demand.

You are correct that the K series has been modelled and improved, however I'm afraid I cannot comment on whether these design changes will filter through to the CS series in the future.

Kind regards,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2254779 - 03/31/14 10:47 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
ArminOF Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Essen, Germany
Hello B Minor,

you are correct that the CS 10 is out of stock at most shops and order times are very long (my local dealer was not even able to order it).

However, there should be some online shops which still have the CS 10 in stock. I just bought ours online 2 weeks ago and it was delivered within a few days. It is a fantastic digital piano and also looks very,very pleasing. I also tried the CA 93, 65 and the CS 6 at my local dealer last year and would absolutely recommend you to go for the CS 10 as it is significantly better in every way (of course, it is the top model). Maybe the CA 95 can match the CS 10 regarding the sound it produces inside the room but the appearance of the CS 10 is way better and was also an important factor for us.

Kind regards,
Armin

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#2254780 - 03/31/14 10:57 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
chickenlump Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 54
Loc: Canada
My preference would be to go for the CS10 or CA95 if you're going for sound. The soundboard really isn't a gimmick, you may not hear it initially on a short trial, but after playing it for a year, there's a huge difference when I have to use headphones over playing out loud. The sound on its own is much more empty and without character (relatively speaking that is)

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#2255285 - 04/01/14 11:10 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 156
Loc: Ohio, USA
B Minor, when you compared the pianos, were you playing through headphones or using the on-board speakers? Was it a very noisy environment?

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#2255328 - 04/01/14 01:02 PM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Dutch Dhamma Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 52
Loc: Netherlands
Of course it's all a matter of taste concerning sound or looks of the different DP's. However it's remarkable that you did not here any difference between the CA 65 and CA 95. The soundboard of the CA 95 makes a huge difference. The CS 10 uses the same soundboard as the CA 95. So could it be that the CA 95 was not positioned rightly? If it’s given the right place, some people even considered the sound of the CA 95 warmer, darker and richer then the sound of the CS 10, by some considered as 'to bright'.
Concerning the CS 7 vs the CA 95, the choice should be not difficult at all, the CA 95 sounds and feels much better. The soundboard generates even a certain vibration through the whole piano, just like a 'real one'. Looking at prices of Thomann.de for instance, you pay for the CA 95 €2998,- on stock, and delivered within a few days. That's about €200,- more than you pay for the CS 7, but what a difference in sound and feel!. Of course the CS 7 has a more beautiful polished finish on the cabinet, but if I had to choose between sound and looks, I would definitely choose for the better sound quality. But if you really have set your mind on the CS 10, patience might be a good thing. If you can wait those six months, you have the best of both worlds, concerning the looks and sound. Hopes this helps smile
Greetings,
Dhamma


Edited by Dutch Dhamma (04/01/14 01:05 PM)
_________________________
Learning to play piano on a Kawai CA 95-SB / Sennheiser HD 600

"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe".
Lao Tzu

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#2255358 - 04/01/14 01:36 PM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
B Minor Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 5
Hi Joe Garfield and Dutch Dhamma,
thank you very much for your comments. I tried the pianos in a shop crowded and, of course, I could not have a perfect acustic since other people were playing other instruments and I couldn't play at the maximum volume. Probably this could be the reason why I couldn't appreciate the sound of the CA 95. CA 65 and CA 95 were close to each other while the CS 10 was in a separate room and this might eventually be the reason why I could hear such a huge difference.
I spoke today to another kawai pianos retailer and he told me that CS 10 won't be available before September while CS 7 is available from end of April, CA 65 and CA 95 ready for delivery.
I think the best should be to test them again, eventually in a day with less people around and then make the final decision.
I have a old CA 750, which is really too old and too noisy (in the mechanic), therefore, if possible, I would prefer not to wait until September.
Thank you very much,
B Minor

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#2255383 - 04/01/14 02:23 PM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: Motorsto]
Dutch Dhamma Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 52
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Motorsto
Unfortunately CA 95, which is the common sense choice, brings a cheapo Ikea like furniture to your living room...

In spite of how much I like the CA 95, partially I have to agree with you about what you call it’s “cheapo Ikea like furniture”. But not because of a poor design, bad craftsmanship or solidity of the CA 95 furniture, that’s all high standard, but because of the Satin Black finish.
Kawai made a really big mistake just by spraying the satin black paint on the wooden furniture of the piano - probably the same underground as the Rosewood veneer - without filling up the wood nerves with some kind of filler. Everybody with knowledge about paint and behaviour of paint on specific surfaces knows, that if you spray paint on wood without filling up the wood nerves, the reflection of the light that touches the surface becomes distorted. Thát makes the CA 95 in direct light looks ‘cheap’. Satin paints are a little bit more forgiving in this aspect of distorted light reflections then high gloss paints, but they also do distort the light. For instance in the evening with indirect light on my CA 95, the Satin black paint looks really beautiful. Even classy and definitely not Ikea like. But when the (sun) light directly shines on the surface, I do agree with you that it looks ‘cheap’. Kawai would have done a real great job in first filling up the wood nerves and then spray it with Satin black paint. That would have made the CA 95 just perfect! Maybe the next serial …..?
Greetings,
Dhamma
_________________________
Learning to play piano on a Kawai CA 95-SB / Sennheiser HD 600

"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe".
Lao Tzu

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#2255787 - 04/02/14 05:57 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: Dutch Dhamma]
Motorsto Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 8
Kawai would have done a real great job in first filling up the wood nerves and then spray it with Satin black paint. That would have made the CA 95 just perfect! Maybe the next serial …..?
Greetings,
Dhamma


I cannot be more than 110% agree. That's the only drawbsck ca95 has. Even cs10 doesn't need a big k2 box, eith only ca95 and PE finish would be enough, lowering the cs10 price. If they fill the wood, I would not hesitate a second to buy the ca95

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#2255819 - 04/02/14 08:03 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
oivavoi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/12
Posts: 48
Loc: Norway
Chiming in with my two cents: If one afford it, then obviously the CS10 is the DP to buy (compared to the other Kawais, at least). It looks stunning, and in my subjective experience it also sounds a bit better than the CA95, even though the speakers and the sound system should be identical on those two models.

However, I would much rather have the CA95 than the CS7, if I had to chosse between the two – in spite of the nicer finish on the CS7. The soundboard (on the CA95 and the CS10) really makes a HUGE difference when playing without microphones. You might not have noticed it when playing the DPs in the store the first time, B Minor, but trust me: When playing the DPs at home you will notice the difference. The soundboard on the CA95 and CS10 makes playing so much more interactive. So if you don't mind the exterior on the CA95, I would say it is a better choice than the CS7. Still, the CS7 and the CA65 are also very nice instruments, of course.

However: If you have the money to buy a CS10, and it's only about waiting some more months, then I would say it's worth the wait. Maybe you could even find it available from an online dealer before that? As I see it, buying such an expensive DP is a long term investment. If nothing happens to it (and I don't think it will), I believe I will keep my CS10 for 10-15 years to come, at the least. In a long term perspective, what's 4-5 months more? I'm liking the CS10 more and more, the more I play it, and can't really imagine how it could be substantially improved.

---
(on a second thought: there is still room for improvement in the CS10 when it comes to sound samples, technology, etc. Nord does the sample library thing better, Roland has a warmer built in sound, and sooner or later there is bound to come a DP with a built in linux-based mini-computer that will allow us to load software pianos directly to the DP (without the hassle of laptops, DACs etc), either from USB or from online libraries. But that's a whole different topic)
_________________________
Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10

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#2302742 - 07/15/14 07:23 PM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: oivavoi]
tosko Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 9
Originally Posted By: oivavoi
Chiming in with my two cents: If one afford it, then obviously the CS10 is the DP to buy (compared to the other Kawais, at least). It looks stunning, and in my subjective experience it also sounds a bit better than the CA95, even though the speakers and the sound system should be identical on those two models.

However, I would much rather have the CA95 than the CS7, if I had to chosse between the two – in spite of the nicer finish on the CS7. The soundboard (on the CA95 and the CS10) really makes a HUGE difference when playing without microphones. You might not have noticed it when playing the DPs in the store the first time, B Minor, but trust me: When playing the DPs at home you will notice the difference. The soundboard on the CA95 and CS10 makes playing so much more interactive. So if you don't mind the exterior on the CA95, I would say it is a better choice than the CS7. Still, the CS7 and the CA65 are also very nice instruments, of course.

However: If you have the money to buy a CS10, and it's only about waiting some more months, then I would say it's worth the wait. Maybe you could even find it available from an online dealer before that? As I see it, buying such an expensive DP is a long term investment. If nothing happens to it (and I don't think it will), I believe I will keep my CS10 for 10-15 years to come, at the least. In a long term perspective, what's 4-5 months more? I'm liking the CS10 more and more, the more I play it, and can't really imagine how it could be substantially improved.

---
(on a second thought: there is still room for improvement in the CS10 when it comes to sound samples, technology, etc. Nord does the sample library thing better, Roland has a warmer built in sound, and sooner or later there is bound to come a DP with a built in linux-based mini-computer that will allow us to load software pianos directly to the DP (without the hassle of laptops, DACs etc), either from USB or from online libraries. But that's a whole different topic)



What do you mean that CS10 sounds a little better than CA95? I ordered today the CA95, but can't tested the CS10. I have tested the CA65 between the CS7 and certainly, the CS7 sounds (to me) better and much more louder speaking system, even with "perhaps" the same speakers). I think it sounds more bright and accoustic real than CA65. There is a difference about 550 euros between the CS10 and CA95, for me, the furnishment ebony polish is nothing important factor for me, only I'm looking the sound quality. Can you explain better that difference between CS10/CA95? It justifies the 550 euros difference? Between CS7 and CA95 I was in very doubt, but the soundboard resonance has impressed me, the keys and whole cabinet certainly vibrates and the sound is much "involving" the room. The CS7 sounds like a bright Yamaha U1 upright and the CA95 more like a Kawai upright, more mellow. Is the same with the CS10? It sounds much louder than CA95?
Thanks,
Tosko


Edited by tosko (07/15/14 07:30 PM)

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#2302746 - 07/15/14 07:47 PM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: B Minor]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 156
Loc: Ohio, USA
There shouldn't be a tremendous difference between the CA95 and the CS10 in terms of sound and feel. They have the same sound engine and same speaker system. Note that pianos can sound different to the ear at different times of the day, in different settings, etc. The CS10 might have a better processor which could account for a small gain in tone quality.

I checked out the CS10 keys today in the piano store (looking at acoustics). While they might feel a little more 'realistic' than the MP10's keys, I thought the action was too light. I was trying to stay away from the newer piano but I couldn't resist, and was happy to find that I liked mine better smile

It is nice to have the decision behind me. I really enjoy my MP10 and haven't been looking at DP's ever since (well until today when one jumped out at me).

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#2302887 - 07/16/14 05:01 AM Re: Kawai CA 65 - 95 vs CS 7 - 10 [Re: Joe Garfield]
tosko Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 9
Thank you very much. I have tried CS10. Will comment about it.

Huggies


Edited by tosko (07/17/14 09:24 AM)

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