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#2256080 - 04/02/14 06:00 PM Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice
Greg the Piano Tuner Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 39
Loc: Boston
Dear Friends,
Our church is looking at a Samick SG 205 for the choir room, and I saw it last week. The piano was made in 1989 and bought new. Pristine condition-never played-stable environment- tuned every six months to 440. No soundboard cracks-no hammer grooves-great sound; but one string of C#3 was horribly flat, consistent with a piano that hadn't been tuned in 20 years. I saw no pinblock cracks, and the pins held very tight on the ones I tested. I cranked up C#3 and left. Yesterday, one week later, the choir director played it, and C#3 had fallen way below pitch, along with one string of C3, yet all the other notes were good. The asking price is $6K. I'm not sure that under the circumstances I want to put in larger pins, or sandpaper etc. on those bad notes. Any thoughts are appreciated.


Edited by Greg the Piano Tuner (04/02/14 06:02 PM)

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#2256088 - 04/02/14 06:09 PM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21420
Loc: Oakland
I suggest that they pass on this piano. While there are several possibilities to make improvements, there is no guarantee that any of them would work as a long-term solution.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2256090 - 04/02/14 06:11 PM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 3320
A note that is significantly flatter than all the others is a sure sign that the torque on that pin is too low. I came across this twice, last month. If this is not a piano that your client owns, yet, the best thing may be to just pass on it. OTOH, it's likely that a simple treatment with low viscocity CA glue would fix the problem for several years. IMO, this is the best repair available, short of replacing the pinblock. Others' opinions may differ.
_________________________
B.Mus. Piano Performance 2009
M.Mus. Piano Performance & Literature 2011
PTG Associate Member
Certified Dampp-Chaser installer

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#2256153 - 04/02/14 09:47 PM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
David Jenson Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 2077
Loc: Maine
While I tend to agree with the Semipro fella, if the church overrules you and decides to buy it, point out the pin problem and get the seller to reduce the price. Then pull the pin. Swab the hole with thin CA glue. Replace the pin, and you should have a happy choir director for many years.
_________________________
David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
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#2256160 - 04/02/14 10:10 PM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
Jon Page Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/09
Posts: 258
Loc: Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massac...
It could have been a replaced string. Have someone look at it with more experience.
_________________________
Regards,

Jon Page
Piano technician/tuner
Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
http://www.pianocapecod.com

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#2256195 - 04/03/14 02:21 AM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 1072
Loc: PA
Inspect the bridge where the affected string crosses it to see if the bridge has a split there.

At least inspect whatever is visible of the pinblock for any obvious problems. (from the underside) Edit: Don't just look for structural problems with the block. It is possible, if all else fails, that those tuning pin holes may have some sort of contamination. Look for staining at the bottom of the holes. Look for staining at the base of the tuning pin on top of the plate as well.

Since the piano has been tuned regularly, check to see if the tuning pin for that particular note is the same height as its neighbors. If not, you could try tapping it slightly to see if this improves the torque. Do not let the coil contact the plate.
If the pin is already driven in, then you do have a problem that you need to accurately diagnose before your client purchases the piano.
WARNING: If you do correct the problem by tapping the pin, rather than having a price negotiating point for your client who wishes to purchase this piano, you might wind up with the seller asking for even more money because you corrected a defect for him.

Speaking of torque, how did the tuning pin feel as you tuned it?

Did you observe any extreme string lag problems when you tuned the affected string? I'm not there to observe exactly how flat the string was. But, string lag on rare occasion can have pretty extreme consequences if it is not compensated for somehow.


Edited by daniokeeper (04/03/14 02:44 AM)
_________________________
Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.tinyurl.com/tunerjoe
(semi-retired)

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#2256230 - 04/03/14 07:21 AM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7452
Loc: France
I believe the price is good, despite the pin problem. Rarely strings break at that location, you may be able to go all along the wire and see if something is wrong (simply if the wire is not at the bottom of the plate pin could do that.

Other comments are good also (not the torque, and even if it was the case ain't a difficult problem)

Those low medium strings are not much solicited generally (around 50-60% of their max breaking strength less 25% for the lowering of strenght due to bends) , so there is quite some room and those notes can be raised 1 tone and a half without risk for the wire. But anything may happen as turning the wrong pin when tuning, a new string does not shine the same usually..)


Edited by Olek (04/03/14 07:26 AM)
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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#2256247 - 04/03/14 08:25 AM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Greg the Piano Tuner]
Mark Cerisano, RPT Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 1170
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
If the pin is tight, check for:

- slipping bridge pins
- cracked frame
- string slipping in pin hole. (Take the string off, unwind a bit. Create a Baldwin becket where the string goes through the pin hole and bends the other way. Tune and watch.) You should also be able to see that the becket has recessed into the hole.
_________________________
Mark Cerisano, RPT
www.howtotunepianos.com

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#2256282 - 04/03/14 10:20 AM Re: Samick SG205- two pins very low-need advice [Re: Mark Cerisano, RPT]
Olek Online   content
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7452
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Mark Cerisano, RPT
string slipping in pin hole. (Take the string off, unwind a bit. Create a Baldwin becket where the string goes through the pin hole and bends the other way. Tune and watch.) You should also be able to see that the becket has recessed into the hole.


yep, forget that one.

rarely occur. the Baldwin becket is overkill in my opinion but can be Ok to correct the above situation ( where the becket will slip again if re installed normally. )
_________________________
It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills


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