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36251, if it's any consolation, when I had my NP88 I remember that I kept fiddling with the EQ etc. before one gig, trying to get a sound that "worked." It never seemed quite right to me. After the gig, the proprietor said that it was the best we'd ever sounded (maybe nothing to do with the NP, but it was the first time I'd used the Nord at that venue, so perhaps it contributed).

Also, I was watching a local jazz trio live, where the keyboard player had recently bought a used Stage EX. He was playing the Grand Lady D through a single Roland KC amp. Admittedly, the guy's a great player, but from an audience perspective it sounded wonderful (very realistic) - and the Lady D is most certainly not my favorite Nord piano.

I sold my NP because I bought into the CP4 hype and wanted a better action, but I do think the Nord AP implementation has the edge over Yamaha's. I can only repeat what others have said above, that it's worth sticking with the Nord for a while, and you may find that your audience helps you make your final decision.

thanks. That has been the feelings from a lot of people, that from the listener's view it sounds great. I have to get comfortable with the sounds before I feel like gigging with it but all these positive comments kind of makes me feel the Emperor in the story "The "Emperor has no cloths."

Is the CP4's action really considered to be realistic (AP like) compared to other top end stage DPs? From my brief go it really didn't seem like that. I remember getting the same impression from the others in the CP line.

The RD700NX/800 still has my favourtie pipe organ (mid pipe organ patch) of all the onboard pipe organs I've had a try of.

For me the 'acceptance' has to do with inertia: I have had my DP and acoustic for so long, I have grown very comfortable with them. I would never upgrade my acoustic to a Fazioli, for example, as it would take me out of my comfort zone (quite apart from the $$$-issue). Something similar is happening on the DP side of things ... but on the other hand, it is really time to upgrade, comfort zone or not

I found the CP4 action to be the least like an acousic compared to Roland and Kawai. I think Kawai's is most realistic.

Yamaha uses a spring under the key along with the weighted hammer. It gives it this initial resistance that really bugs me. It does not feel natural at all to me. The end of the key stroke is pretty abrupt, too, but it's not much different from a Yamaha acoustic.

I just bought the Kawai MP10 and absolutely love it. It was just replaced by the MP11 which of course is also great. The MP10 has been on sale at Kraft music for $2000 since it's being discontinued. If price is not much of an issue, it's nice to have the latest and greatest. I'd love the MP11 but my budget was limited. I'm just as happy with the MP10 for where I'm at with my playing.

Yeah, but how often do people use a pipe organ?

Are you sure about this? Where did you get this info from?

Probably here. I don't know of this applies to the later NW-GH3 used on the CP4.

I've seen several pictures of Yamaha actions, and I can feel the spring pretty easily.

https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2036349/Re:%20Yamaha%20flagship%20CLP-990%20Na.html
First post, second to last photo, even with the back of the black key

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1541163/Actions%20compared.html
First post, near bottom

Very common for people who play in churches...

I just wanted to update this thread to let people know I ending up getting a Yamaha CP 4 just this boxing week - got sidetracked - main reasons - I preferred the Yamaha sound over others for the most part - liked it's weight for portability - although not the best for me still liked the action and finally value wise I was very happy with the price I paid which was $2145 inc. tax which is great deal for Canada.

I will post in the prices paid section as well. I think December is the best time for deals at music retailers and on Kijiji here in Ontario for those looking to buy on a budget. I am thankful for everyone's posts on this site and hopefully this will help someone in the future...

Congratulations on your purchase! Hope that it gives you much enjoyment!

Great choice. Im a big fan of the CP4. I think the action and AP-sound-connection is excellent. Very enjoyable to play. As much as I love my RD800 & ES7, I still find an organic feel with the CP4. Not that it matters, but I also like the looks of it - boxy and no frills. Maybe that's part of it's retro charm. I haven't spent enough time with it to explore other voices aside of APs & EPs. IMO I believe it will easily satisfy your 5 requirements especially for classic rock. Would certainly be on my short list if I were in the market for a lightweight powerhouse DP.

Best of luck and let us know how you like it.

Hi! I tried out the MP11 and the MP7 today, and Kawai James (or anybody else) - I really am puzzled by the sound selection of the MP11 vs MP7 - I mean the fact that MP7 seems to have the same piano sounds as the MP11, and in addition has got a lot of extra keyboard essential sounds like organ and synths? I really, really do not understand why Kawai left those sounds out of the MP11 - you basically pay more for less? I know the action is better - but it's no like there isn't room for the sounds - I mean - it is a large cabinet ,) Could you clear this up for me? Did Kawai just want a tidier arrangement of buttons?

If the MP11 had the sounds of the MP7 - I would have bought it right away. Now I need to think some more. I would really like a hazzel (and computer free) way to play some organ and synth sounds with the MP11, and mix it with the existing sounds, using split keyboard etc. How do you do this? I am a quite inexperienced with regards to this. I cannot seem to find many reasonably priced midi-synth-modules. Is iPad the simplest way to go? Any good midi modules that do some synths and organs, and looks good?

I can add that I now have tried out the CP4, RD800, PM7 and PM11. The last three in the same shop, the CP4 seperately. My goal is primarily to have a good acoustic piano experience (I am classically trained, but have been mvoing into improvising jazz-like stuff) I am an amateur that have been without a piano for a long toime, trying to pick up old skills, and hopefully develop some new ones. Even though piano is the most important, I think it is fun to try out different sounds. I am gonna have this piano in my living room.

So, here is how far I have gotten: The CP4 is nice, but I didn't really like the action. It was hard to play classical/subtle jazz pieces on it. It looks sturdy, but not really exclusive. It looks better in pictures.

Trying out the RD800 today, I was really wowed. The action is great! The sound is great. The layout and operation is super intuitive. It is really fun to explore the sounds and just fool around. I loved it.

Moving to the MP11, I approached with caution. I really, really wanted to get the Roland, but knew that the Kawai might give me a better sense of the piano.. and it did. The Kawai made me want to play more classical-like, the Roland made me play more like rock/pop piano.

It is not just the action. Actually I felt the Roland action to feel just as good - the keys are really great! It is something with the way the key and sound interracts on the Kawai. I noticed something at the end of my session (going back and forth): If I hit the keys quite hard, or very hard - the Kawai just sounded the same. Like on a real piano. You cannot make the hammers go harder than a certain point. But with the Roland, it just kept responding. It got mega loud. So that might contribute to the feeling I got woth the Kawai - it felt more like a real piano.

I kind of like the Roland approach - making the digital piano even better than the real thing - more dynamic and responsive. For popular muscic it is great. But for classical, it felt slighlty odd. It might be somthing you could adjust with the action key settings, I'll go back to a store and check it out.

The MP7 sounds identical to the MP11, but the key action on the RD800 is better. Since the RD800 hgave more sounds and better interface, I'd rather have the RD800 than the MP7 ( I don't mind the price gap)

So, as I mentioned in the previous post, I am a bit torn. I like the MP11 very much for piano and e-piano, but really miss the opportunity to play som organ and synth. If the MP11 had the sounds of the MP7, it would have been easy, but now I really am torn between the RD800 and the MP11.

BTW - I used the same headphones with all.

Any inputs are welcome, especially on the key adjusment possibilities of the RD800 , and nice ways to get the MP11 to play organ and syth over midi in a simple and discret (livingroom friendly) way.

MrHertzberg, thank you for sharing your play-testing experiences.

Regarding the sound selection of the MP11 vs the MP7, I believe this can be explained by the product concepts of the two instruments, as stated on the KawaiMP.com website:

MP11: THE PIANISTS'S STAGE PIANO
MP7: THE PERFORMER'S STAGE PIANO

This is not to say that the MP7 cannot also serve as an excellent piano-oriented stage instrument, just that the MP11, with it's authentic wooden key action, is the more piano-like of the two boards. Moreover, the MP7's plastic key action offers special 'fast' trigger modes that are more suitable for playing synth and organ sounds - something that is not possible with the long, see-saw movement of the MP11's wooden key action. Finally, it should be noted that the MP7 "features 32 of the finest sounds from the MP11" - i.e. the main piano and EP sounds are the same, however there are certain sounds on the MP11 that are exclusive to that instrument.

I hope this answers your initial post.

Regarding extending an instrument's tonal palette with additional sounds, if you have access to an iPad, this is an excellent solution. There are hundreds of virtual instrument apps available for iOS, offering great sound quality at a relatively low price. Here's a recent 'top 23 synths' list compiled by MusicRadar.com:

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/23-of-the-best-ipad-iphone-ios-synth-apps-571053

For organ, I strongly recommend Galileo - incredible functionality, and lots of knobs and buttons to tweak:

http://www.yonac.com/galileo/

You may also wish to take a look at Korg Module and Korg Gadget:

http://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_module_for_ipad/
http://www.korg.com/jp/products/software/korg_gadget/

Connecting an iPad via MIDI is typically just a case of taking a USB cable from the controller instrument to the Apple Camera Connection Kit (depending on your iOS device). On the MP11, the iPad's sound can be fed back into the instrument, and mixed with the onboard sounds. There are alternative interfaces for iOS that add traditional MIDI connectors and audio recording functionality, if desired.

PianoManChuck explained the process of 'adding' instrument sounds to the MP11 in this video:



Generally speaking, an iPad opens up a wide range of sound creation possibilities, regardless of the instrument you decide to pair it up with.

I hope this helps - best of luck with your purchase.

Kind regards,
James
x

Thanks a lot for your elaborate answer, James!

So as I understand it, the limited number of voices is for simplicity and marketing. It still annoys me, since it would've been so easy to just include some organ and synth sounds in the "sub" section - if nothing else... I just disagree with Kawai there. And as the youtube video shows - it is perfectly ok to use the keyboard to play organ..

However, as you say, and PianoManChuck illustrates - there seemingly is a good way to work around it.

Three more questions:

1) MIDI keyboard splitting: Is it possible to split the keyboard when playing extrenal midi? I mean - so that I can play internal bass sounds with my left hand and external ones with my right?

2) I do not own an iPad - so if there is a nice MIDI box (like the one Piano man chuck had in the video) that features good organ sounds (and more) i'd be happy =)

3) Any recommendations for good speakers - not to big, and not to "studio"-looking..

Chris

I'm going to be controversial and say that if you want to play piano on it, buy the MP11 for the action, and get a nice software piano to suit your taste in sound tone.

If you want a fun instrument that's great for gigging, go for the RD-800. The PHAIV action is good enough, and not sufficiently inferior to the MP11 to rule it out. Also, as a gigging board, the RD-800 is the best from the choices you mentioned.

Knowing what you prime aim is in buying the instrument may logically make the decision for you; however, you may regret not going with your gut feeling. You can always add software pianos to the mix in order to try overcome that issue you mentioned with the RD-800. However, you can't get a race horse (the mp11) to do dressage, metaphorically.

I have allot of time for Kawai and love the CA-97. However, the people there doing the conjoint analysis to decide which features to add to the MP11 have decided that there are two kinds of players: pianists who want a digital, and gigging musicians who need a more versatile action.

In reality, there are many people who want to play piano, but who really like having lots of sounds and other functions.

I take the point that the MP7 has a organ/synth friendly action, whereas the MP11 has an action specifically designed for piano. However, it is like this: I may like dating supermodel 1 (MP11) for her looks and her sexual prowess, but find that she doesn't like sports, the outdoors or doing really fun things. I then meet supermodel 2 (RD-800) who does like to do fun things, and even if she's not quite as beautiful as supermodel 1, I'll miss the fun activities too much. Ok, the supermodel 2 might not be as sporty as an average looking Olympic athlete (e.g., the Korg Kronos), but I might in the end go for the best of both worlds over a specific product, especially when the more versatile instrument is not far off the more specific instruments.

That said, if you want to concentrate upon improving as a pianist, having functions and capabilities that you don't need can be a massive distraction.

Thanks for your input, Doug - you basically nailed it =)

I probably will do as you say - go for the MP11 for the action and add a sound module or whatever in the future to suit my needs. And you are right about the MP11 sounds - the Kawai folks probably think they did a smart move reducing the number of sounds of the MP11 because it is a success - but I think people buy it for the action only, despite the lack of sounds. I mean - who are deciding not to buy a keyboard because it has too many sounds - as long as the user interface is intuitive? Both the Yamaha CP4 and RD800 arte at least as easy to navigate for piano sounds only as the MP11....

Fun comparison with the supermodels, haha - yes - it is really a choice between a delicate beauty and a "pretty and fun" chick.

Trying to follow my gut feeling - but the gut feeling is too much in both places. (It's like choosing between two beatuiful girls, you can't have them both...) And then - as I mentioned, I am picking up my piano interest after many years without - so I really don't know what would make me more prone to playing the most. I mean - the goal for me is to get a keyboard I really use a lot.

I'll go back to the store and play some more, I guess. Either way - they are stunning keyboards with great actions!

Reporting back, having owned the MP11 for a few months - I am really happy with it! The action is to die for, the sounds are great. I got some nice speakers - the ADAM Artist 5 - which works very well, and can sit on top of the MP11 looking quite allright.