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#2259958 - 04/10/14 08:16 PM Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Hi, my name is Tim Settlemoire and I currently own a Yamaha p155 thanks to this forum. I have seen that the Kawai es100 has the better action and now am interested in Kawai. I currently want an mp7, but for just a couple hundred more can get the mp10 at closeout prices at Kraft. I want the best possible action to train my hands to be a concert pianist. But the mp7 has the better sound and if the action on it is world's better than the p155 I currently have... decisions!!! I see now that Roland has the rd800 with Supernatural Sound and I wonder how the action on it compares with Kawai's RH2 and the sound vs Harmonic XL. Of course if the mp10s action blows away everything else. What are your thoughts as I highly regard them. Thank you. You can include this all in a post if you want.

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#2260045 - 04/11/14 12:11 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
GLR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/14
Posts: 42
Hi Tim. My standard answer is you have to try them. I truly believe piano comparisons are something you really have to play and hear for yourself when it comes to action and sound. You can get specs on which piano has which features but it boils down to it personal preference and what pleased you most.

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#2260047 - 04/11/14 12:20 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1418
What's more important? Sound or action? Sonically I believe the RD-800 to be superior. From an action point of view, the MP10/MP11 is the king for slab style DPs, I'd go with the close out MP10 and buy he F30 Kawai Triple Pedal unit.
_________________________
Kawai RX-2
Nord Piano 2


"Life is a lot like jazz...it's best when you improvise."

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#2260172 - 04/11/14 10:13 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: PianoZac]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Action is number one in my book. I was just wondering if the mp7 with the rh2 is worlds ahead of my p155 with the gh action as compared to the real grand piano or upright. If it is, I wonder if I should get it instead of the mp10 because of the triple sensor, better sound, more piano sounds ... etc. The mp10 is just 200 more at Kraft music, but how important is that 3rd sensor? So you think the Roland has the superior sound? How about its action vs the mp7 as far as realism to the real thing. The Roland only has the 128 polyphony vs 256 for the Kawai. Thanks for all your help.

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#2260198 - 04/11/14 11:22 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 134
Loc: Ohio, USA
The MP10 sound is really good. The MP11 would be a little better but I don't think it's worlds apart. I had the P155 and just got the MP10 and am THRILLED with it. It IS worlds apart from the P155.

The wood action on the MP10 is really nice. I was between the 7 and 10 and went for the 10 because of the action. I'm glad I did. I have no regrets about getting the MP10 and not the MP11.

I did not like the Roland action.

If you want 'the best possible action to train your hands to be a concert pianist' I believe you should go with either the MP10 or MP11.

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#2260204 - 04/11/14 11:32 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 134
Loc: Ohio, USA
In my opinion, the 3rd sensor is important if you are an advanced piano player who is used to playing on a grand piano. I compared 2 and 3 sensor actions side-by-side, along with acoustic pianos. I thought it would be something 'I had to have' but quickly learned that is not the case.

I found that the MP10 repeats notes faster than the P155. Both have 2 sensors but the Kawai just seems more accurate to me.

The MP10 feels much more like an acoustic piano to me than the RH2 keybed. I am just scratching the surface of what I can do with this keyboard, and each time I use it I am more and more pleased.

I take lessons on a Steinway baby grand piano. The P155 did not train my hands to properly play that piano and I would miss notes a lot during lesson, while at home I would play the piece very well. With the Kawai MP10 I found I was missing notes and am quickly learning better control of my hands.

The sound is really good. I absolutely love it. I have a mediocre pair of 5" studio monitors and I am very, very happy with the sound. And I'm incredibly picky smile

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#2260208 - 04/11/14 11:51 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Joe Garfield]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Thanks, I will probably get the MP10 then. You have been a lot of help. My lessons are on an old Steinway upright and I thought the p155 was so much closer than my p105. Can't wait to get the mp10, or mp11 if I can get the extra money. I have to sell some things first. Thanks for all your help!!!

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#2260275 - 04/11/14 02:36 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Enthusiast Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 168
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Action is number one in my book. I was just wondering if the mp7 with the rh2 is worlds ahead of my p155 with the gh action as compared to the real grand piano or upright. If it is, I wonder if I should get it instead of the mp10 because of the triple sensor, better sound, more piano sounds ... etc. The mp10 is just 200 more at Kraft music, but how important is that 3rd sensor? So you think the Roland has the superior sound? How about its action vs the mp7 as far as realism to the real thing. The Roland only has the 128 polyphony vs 256 for the Kawai. Thanks for all your help.


What level are you at? I was wondering about 2 sensor vs triple too. With around a year's experience I don't think it's something I'd personally need to worry about now but perhaps in the future. Joe's findings though seem to bear out the advice that's been given in this forum in that it's the individual action rather than whether it has 2 sensors or 3 that's important.

The MP11's action however has triple sensors (for whatever advantage that gives) and has longer keys that feel lighter at the back and more evenly weighted from back to front like a real AP's action. Apart from that however whenever I've been into the shops to try I've always found the MP10's action to feel more realistic than the GF action of the MP11. The weight, resistance, the feel at the bottom and return of the MP10 all seemed more AP like to me than pretty much any other DP including the GF action ones like the CA/CS series and MP11.

I've never noticed much difference between the HIXL sound and the UPHI of the MP10. More advanced players may pick up on the differences though.

After my experiences at the stores I'm set on going for an MP10 for the same sort of reasons as you (a practice instrument). It should be much cheaper too, I missed out on a chance to get a brand new one for £550 off the original price.

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#2260277 - 04/11/14 02:48 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Enthusiast]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
I am almost finished with the 3rd and last Alfred's Adult All-In-One book. Just finishing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata after 3 weeks of refining it. Still doesn't sound like virtuosity to me but I think it is about as good as it is going to get at my level. I have the sequence of three books for starting at the late intermediate level through late advanced that I will be starting after the Alfred's. Wanting to go all the way and play Debussy, Albeniz, Scriabin which are my favorites so I will need the wood action I am guessing. It is neat that you think the RM3 is better than the GF. Any more thoughts from anybody on this?

edit: Just thought of something. Here in America Kawai as the ce220 with progressive harmonic imaging and the AwaProII action. Is there a big sound difference and action difference between this and the mp10?


Edited by tnsettlemo (04/11/14 02:54 PM)

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#2260341 - 04/11/14 05:11 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
slowtraveler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 160
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Hi Tim,

I’ve been reading this thread with interest. Seeing your obvious enthusiasm for exploring the nuances of digital piano actions, I’d like to propose a couple of general arguments on this subject. I notice that some other posters in this thread have made similar points, but here's my take:

1. There is no such thing as a single Platonic ideal of the acoustic piano action, to which you can meaningfully compare various DP actions.

2. Regarding the top-line (that is, heavy and expensive) DP actions from Roland, Kawai, Yamaha, etc., there is little basis but subjective preference on which to choose among them.

3. If you are serious about acquiring a high level of proficiency in playing piano, you’ll need to spend a significant amount of time practicing on acoustic instruments. Your teacher will tell you when and how much, but it’s a truth universally acknowledged, as they say, among serious pianists.

4. Frequently buying and selling digital pianos is an expensive habit because, like new cars, they depreciate very quickly. (I’m mentioning this since your previous posts suggest you’ve had the P155 for about five months, and a P105 before that.)


Though I haven’t played a P155 recently, I'm pretty sure you’d find one or another of the higher-end DPs you’re asking about, somewhat more “piano-like.”

If I found myself in your position, though, I think I might wait a while longer before deciding to upgrade from the P155. In the meantime, I would try to beg, borrow, or steal as much practice time as possible on some different acoustic pianos, to develop my technique a bit more and provide me a wider base of knowledge about piano actions in general.

I would keep auditioning various DP actions in person when I had the opportunity, of course, but wait until I had put in some serious time on a number of different digital and acoustic pianos before deciding which higher-end DP would best meet my needs as a practice instrument over a several-year-long period of ownership.

That’s my two cents. YMMV, of course, and best of luck with your decision!

Cheers,
Ben

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#2260363 - 04/11/14 05:47 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 753
Excellent post, Ben. I agree with everything you say.

And to the OP: If you really want to go at Debussy, Albeniz, Scriabin and play them well, then sooner or later you'll have to get an acoustic. Save up for it. In the meantime, practice on what you have.
_________________________
Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.

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#2260425 - 04/11/14 08:14 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: maurus]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
I did get to play the grands where I take lessons. Practiced a while on a Knabe - junk!!! Then played on a Yamaha - not much better, then moved to a more expensive Yamaha and, again, not that impressed with the action or sound. I asked if I could play the Schimmel - if that's how you spell it. It was perfect. Just a seven foot concert series on sale for 65,000. Sucks that is what you have to spend to get a good piano!!! I can afford a new vertical but live in an old farm house that is not climate controlled and after talking with the guy that does the tuning and maintenance on their grand pianos, I don't want to take a chance on soundboards cracking, not to mention tuning every couple of months. No, I can have only a digital piano here at home. I have been listening first to classical guitar for many years before switching to the piano - thanks to Segovia for all the piano transcriptions. That is all it took and have been hooked on classical piano for the last 10 years or so. I am not in a hurry to get a different piano but just wanting as much info on the subject that I can get. Thanks for all the help!!!

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#2260455 - 04/11/14 09:20 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 134
Loc: Ohio, USA
Based on the pieces you hope to master, I think you will be fine with the 2 sensor keyboard.

I did not get to play the RM3 and the GF action side by side. I did sit down to a CA65 before I tried the MP10, and while I appreciated the materials and touch, I did not immediately think it felt like the pianos I was used to. That being said, I'm sure you would be more than happy with the MP11 if you went that route.

I believe the right thing to do is get as much piano as you can afford. I also don't believe in going into much debt to do so. I had to sell my guitar stuff to afford the MP10 and I'm happy I did not need to charge it.

In 5 months, I went through a Casio PX310, PX330, Yamaha P155, and now the MP10. I know I will not need anything beyond what I have for at least a few years, if not more. By the time I need another piano, I will know if I want to make the investment into an acoustic. The MP10 will easily hold me over and offer a virtually unlimited platform to learn on.

I would not recommend getting the instrument with PHI sound and AWA Pro keyboard. While the keyboard is not substantially different, the let-off feature is really nice and does remind me of playing on an acoustic. I personally find the difference between the PHI and UPHI quite substantial, moreso than UPHI to HIXL. I was never thrilled with the PHI sound (which I experienced with the CN24, CN34, CL26, etc) but I am completely satisfied with the UPHI in the MP10.

I don't mean to over-steer anyone toward the MP10 or MP11. I am just stating my experience. Others have different opinions and experiences. However I too have been through similar keyboards in a similar period of time and am also learning on Alfred's 3-book series. (I also just converted from guitar smile ) The MP10 is more than enough.

My theory teacher teaches college level classes in a plethora of musical topics, does pitch coaching, and even teaches composition classes. He personally has an MP8 and still prefers it to record on.

The MP10 action is incredibly similar to the action on an upright piano. No matter how much keyboards progress in the next 10 years, the action will always feel something like an acoustic unless acoustic pianos get a major overhaul, which I doubt will happen.

The MP11 has longer keys and an extra sensor. This stuff would be nice for someone who plays between the ebony and who needs a grand piano type action for music with fast repetition of notes. The other features of the MP11 would be awesome to have, but for nearly 30% less money you can get the MP10 which has an action that will last you a decade, and piano sounds which should last you just as long. If not, there is always MIDI smile

There will always be a newer keyboard. I read everything online about every feature and got hung up in having the latest and greatest. I didn't think I would be happy with less than 3 sensors and HIXL sound generation. My budget steered me to the MP10 as I wanted the RM3 action over RH2. I thought I was sacrificing a lot to get the better action. Once I touched and heard the MP10 I never felt that way again. If you get the MP10, you will enjoy it especially if you just start playing and stop looking at new pianos. That's what I've been doing and I've never been happier. I play every night and am enamored by the sound and feel. The feeling I get from playing, every night, is priceless.

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#2260460 - 04/11/14 09:32 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Lots of good posts - interesting to read your thoughts chaps!

I too would recommend against the CE220. It's a lot of piano for the money, however the MP10 (especially at the reduced price) is the superior instrument.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2260461 - 04/11/14 09:35 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Joe Garfield]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Thanks. I will probably at some point in the future have to go to the University of Evansville to take lessons from one of the professors. I take lessons now at a piano store and, while the teachers are able to help me so far, they seem to be pretty stupid when it comes to classical music. I don't think they actually just listen to classical piano like I have done for many years. Sure, they have played a lot of it - not at the level that I listen to, but can definitely help me for a little longer. They are not the professionals I would like them to be. I am paying 70 a month for 4 half-hour lessons in which I pretty much teach myself everything but play the songs in front of them to see if everything is right and I am not missing anything and to see if I can now move on to the next group of songs. Since I am only just a beginner, this is all that I can hope for, for now. It is neat seeing other people on here interested in the piano like I am. I took guitar lessons when I was a young kid and was thinking for a time about getting back into that. I am glad that I chose the piano though, though I think the classical guitar can be just as beautiful. Go on YouTube and check out Segovia or Julian Bream or John Williams on the guitar-good concerts!

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#2260590 - 04/12/14 07:45 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
bennevis Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4391
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
I took guitar lessons when I was a young kid and was thinking for a time about getting back into that. I am glad that I chose the piano though, though I think the classical guitar can be just as beautiful. Go on YouTube and check out Segovia or Julian Bream or John Williams on the guitar-good concerts!

I came from the 'other side', starting on (classical) piano, then attempting to learn classical guitar on my own after hearing Bream, Williams, Segovia et al playing Albéniz's Asturias, Cordoba, Granada, Sevilla etc, not realizing that they were originally for piano..... grin

Actually, I still think that they sound better and more idiomatic on the guitar. But at least I have the choice of playing them reasonably well on my DP and attempting to emulate the articulation and colors of the guitar, whereas I sound a total mess on the guitar...... cry

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#2260603 - 04/12/14 08:16 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10753
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
I did get to play the grands where I take lessons. Practiced a while on a Knabe - junk!!! Then played on a Yamaha - not much better, then moved to a more expensive Yamaha and, again, not that impressed with the action or sound. I asked if I could play the Schimmel - if that's how you spell it. It was perfect. Just a seven foot concert series on sale for 65,000. Sucks that is what you have to spend to get a good piano!!! I can afford a new vertical but live in an old farm house that is not climate controlled and after talking with the guy that does the tuning and maintenance on their grand pianos, I don't want to take a chance on soundboards cracking, not to mention tuning every couple of months. No, I can have only a digital piano here at home. I have been listening first to classical guitar for many years before switching to the piano - thanks to Segovia for all the piano transcriptions. That is all it took and have been hooked on classical piano for the last 10 years or so. I am not in a hurry to get a different piano but just wanting as much info on the subject that I can get. Thanks for all the help!!!


You can get a very nice grand piano for around $20k new. They have to be a min. of 6 feet to be worthwhile I think, and even then, the base notes will be less satisfying.

Regarding soundboards cracking, there are ways of preventing this that will also help to keep your piano in tune. Some pianos need only be tuned once per year if the climate and humidity can be controlled, twice if there's a wide fluctuation - if measures are taken. Have a Dammp-Chaser unit installed and it will resolve the temp/humidity issue.

Now, I think that the MP11 (GF action) gets you in the ballpark of the feel of one of those grands. Sound-wise, of course, digital is not as good as acoustic, but that is not to say the sound is bad. It's just going to be different - less vibrant - than an acoustic.

I have not played an MP10 to compare with the MP11, but I've played the VPC1 which has the RM3-II action (not sure if this is the same action as the MP10, I don't think so). It was still very good. If you are planning on buying something and sticking with it for a long time, and you can scrape up the funds for the MP11, I say go for it. However, if you have to beg, borrow and steal for it, then it's probably wiser to get the MP10. Either way you will get many years of enjoyment out of your purchase and can focus more on developing your technique.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2260605 - 04/12/14 08:23 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 10753
Loc: Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Thanks. I will probably at some point in the future have to go to the University of Evansville to take lessons from one of the professors. I take lessons now at a piano store and, while the teachers are able to help me so far, they seem to be pretty stupid when it comes to classical music. I don't think they actually just listen to classical piano like I have done for many years. Sure, they have played a lot of it - not at the level that I listen to, but can definitely help me for a little longer. They are not the professionals I would like them to be. I am paying 70 a month for 4 half-hour lessons in which I pretty much teach myself everything but play the songs in front of them to see if everything is right and I am not missing anything and to see if I can now move on to the next group of songs. Since I am only just a beginner, this is all that I can hope for, for now. It is neat seeing other people on here interested in the piano like I am. I took guitar lessons when I was a young kid and was thinking for a time about getting back into that. I am glad that I chose the piano though, though I think the classical guitar can be just as beautiful. Go on YouTube and check out Segovia or Julian Bream or John Williams on the guitar-good concerts!


Hmm, ya, sounds like you need more of an upgrade with your teachers than your piano. $17.50 for a half hour is...really, really, too cheap. It's no wonder you aren't learning much.

Also, adult students shouldn't be taking half hours. You need an hour or at least 45 minutes. Depending on the economy in your area expect to pay around $50-60 per hour at least, not per month. That is more reasonable, and you will most likely be getting the professional pianist you need as a teacher.
_________________________
private piano/voice teacher - full time
MTNA member
www.valeoconservatory.com
Petrof 9'2 Concert, Yamaha G3, Roland FP-7, Yamaha MOX6, Kawai MP11

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#2260632 - 04/12/14 10:22 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: bennevis]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: bennevis
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
I took guitar lessons when I was a young kid and was thinking for a time about getting back into that. I am glad that I chose the piano though, though I think the classical guitar can be just as beautiful. Go on YouTube and check out Segovia or Julian Bream or John Williams on the guitar-good concerts!

I came from the 'other side', starting on (classical) piano, then attempting to learn classical guitar on my own after hearing Bream, Williams, Segovia et al playing Albéniz's Asturias, Cordoba, Granada, Sevilla etc, not realizing that they were originally for piano..... grin

Actually, I still think that they sound better and more idiomatic on the guitar. But at least I have the choice of playing them reasonably well on my DP and attempting to emulate the articulation and colors of the guitar, whereas I sound a total mess on the guitar...... cry


Awesome. Let me make something clear. I only took classical guitar for about two years; young kid, ADHD. So not a classical guitar player, just listener, but love Segovia and Bream and Williams.

Also, I read somewhere that Albeniz actually had heard the transcriptions of some of his piano music to guitar and liked it a lot.

I first heard Granados's Valse Poeticas on the guitar by Bream and loved it, but many years later when I listened to it on the piano, I heard different, better sounds that actually made my heart jump and was hooked. Still pretty on the guitar though.

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#2260634 - 04/12/14 10:24 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Morodiene]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
I did get to play the grands where I take lessons. Practiced a while on a Knabe - junk!!! Then played on a Yamaha - not much better, then moved to a more expensive Yamaha and, again, not that impressed with the action or sound. I asked if I could play the Schimmel - if that's how you spell it. It was perfect. Just a seven foot concert series on sale for 65,000. Sucks that is what you have to spend to get a good piano!!! I can afford a new vertical but live in an old farm house that is not climate controlled and after talking with the guy that does the tuning and maintenance on their grand pianos, I don't want to take a chance on soundboards cracking, not to mention tuning every couple of months. No, I can have only a digital piano here at home. I have been listening first to classical guitar for many years before switching to the piano - thanks to Segovia for all the piano transcriptions. That is all it took and have been hooked on classical piano for the last 10 years or so. I am not in a hurry to get a different piano but just wanting as much info on the subject that I can get. Thanks for all the help!!!


You can get a very nice grand piano for around $20k new. They have to be a min. of 6 feet to be worthwhile I think, and even then, the base notes will be less satisfying.

Regarding soundboards cracking, there are ways of preventing this that will also help to keep your piano in tune. Some pianos need only be tuned once per year if the climate and humidity can be controlled, twice if there's a wide fluctuation - if measures are taken. Have a Dammp-Chaser unit installed and it will resolve the temp/humidity issue.

Now, I think that the MP11 (GF action) gets you in the ballpark of the feel of one of those grands. Sound-wise, of course, digital is not as good as acoustic, but that is not to say the sound is bad. It's just going to be different - less vibrant - than an acoustic.

I have not played an MP10 to compare with the MP11, but I've played the VPC1 which has the RM3-II action (not sure if this is the same action as the MP10, I don't think so). It was still very good. If you are planning on buying something and sticking with it for a long time, and you can scrape up the funds for the MP11, I say go for it. However, if you have to beg, borrow and steal for it, then it's probably wiser to get the MP10. Either way you will get many years of enjoyment out of your purchase and can focus more on developing your technique.


Awesome, I can't believe this many people are helping me out and responding to my posts: Amazing!!!

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#2260639 - 04/12/14 10:31 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Morodiene]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Thanks. I will probably at some point in the future have to go to the University of Evansville to take lessons from one of the professors. I take lessons now at a piano store and, while the teachers are able to help me so far, they seem to be pretty stupid when it comes to classical music. I don't think they actually just listen to classical piano like I have done for many years. Sure, they have played a lot of it - not at the level that I listen to, but can definitely help me for a little longer. They are not the professionals I would like them to be. I am paying 70 a month for 4 half-hour lessons in which I pretty much teach myself everything but play the songs in front of them to see if everything is right and I am not missing anything and to see if I can now move on to the next group of songs. Since I am only just a beginner, this is all that I can hope for, for now. It is neat seeing other people on here interested in the piano like I am. I took guitar lessons when I was a young kid and was thinking for a time about getting back into that. I am glad that I chose the piano though, though I think the classical guitar can be just as beautiful. Go on YouTube and check out Segovia or Julian Bream or John Williams on the guitar-good concerts!


Hmm, ya, sounds like you need more of an upgrade with your teachers than your piano. $17.50 for a half hour is...really, really, too cheap. It's no wonder you aren't learning much.

Also, adult students shouldn't be taking half hours. You need an hour or at least 45 minutes. Depending on the economy in your area expect to pay around $50-60 per hour at least, not per month. That is more reasonable, and you will most likely be getting the professional pianist you need as a teacher.


Thanks, but for now, because I am still a beginner, I will stay where I am at. My teacher is helping me. I have OCD and without her, I wouldn't know when to move on to the next group of songs, and she has been helping me with other things. Because I started out as an adult, I noticed that I couldn't play with one hand soft and the other loud and I would scoot on the bench. I have been doing Hanon a lot and she made the recommendation to practice Hanon with one hand at a different dynamic level than the other and to stay seated on the bench. For now, she is okay. Also, I thought I was paying too much! Wow!!

I do have the University of Evansville, which is a music school for when I get to the Advanced Level.

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#2260705 - 04/12/14 02:09 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 229
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Of course if the mp10s action blows away everything else.

I guess you haven't compared them yourself yet, because there is not the step change in feel that you're imagining. Many people prefer the Roland PHA action (interesting video here) - which also avoids many of the foibles of Kawai's wooden key actions, such as uneven spacing, rubbing, and clicking, which you can read about on these forums.

Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Wanting to go all the way and play Debussy, Albeniz, Scriabin which are my favorites so I will need the wood action I am guessing.

None of the pianos mentioned has a wood action (it you want that, you need to look at the Avant Grands, which are expensive, large, heavy, and need regulation and maintenance). But you don't really want that. Even Kawai has been replacing the wood actions of its acoustic grands with more reliable plastic and carbon fibre parts (to the ire of the Luddites).

Some of the DPs mentioned have wood keys, but if you think that makes a lot of difference, you should check out this beauty that someone recently posted. It has wood keys, but spring action so I guess it feels pretty unrealistic. That's not to say the new Kawais don't feel good - some vocal posters here think they're they best (and I own one myself, and like it), but wood keys don't affect the action per se, and won't make you a better pianist.

What really makes a big difference to the feel, more than you might expect, is the sound produced. What you perceive is mainly the force you're applying to the keys, and less the speed the keys are moving. So if you have a heavy touch setting, the keyboard really does feel heavier, as you have to press harder to get the expected tone. Another example would be how the keyboard feels different if you introduce latency. So the connection with the sound engine really is important.

As already said, you really need to try them for yourself. There is not really a wrong answer. I suggest leaving any preconceptions at the door, and getting the cheapest model that fulfils your requirements. There are quite a few RD-700NXes floating around on the used market, for example, for around 60% the price of a RD-800, which would be a much better buy for you than a new RD-800.

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#2260777 - 04/12/14 06:03 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Kawai James Online   content
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8388
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
Awesome, I can't believe this many people are helping me out and responding to my posts: Amazing!!!


This is why PW is one of the best forums on the internet!

Occasionally some trolls will come along, posting misleading or contradictory information, but the vast majority of members are here to help others and simply enjoy discussing pianos.

James
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_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2261002 - 04/13/14 10:44 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: Kawai James]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
What about MP7 action RH2 vs Roland RD800 concert premium action?
If Rolands Supernatural sound is better, what about it's 128 polyphony vs Kawai's 256?
Also, on another note, when logging in to this site and clicking on the "remember me" button, when accessing your posts or messages, why do you have to log in again? Only when clicking on "remember me". You don't have to relog in if you don't click that box.

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#2261007 - 04/13/14 11:05 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
toddy Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1320
Loc: Portugal
Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo
What about MP7 action RH2 vs Roland RD800 concert premium action?


Which do you like better? They're both good. I much prefer the Roland PHAIII over Kawai RH. It is more decisive, lighter and just more pleasant to play. But that's one opinion, from the previous generation of Roland & Kawai Dps - lots of people actually prefer Kawai actions.

Originally Posted By: tnsettlemo

If Rolands Supernatural sound is better, what about it's 128 polyphony vs Kawai's 256?


Again, you might not prefer Roland's sound to Kawai's. Best try them, or at least audition them online (though that doesn't tell you much compared to actually playing them - there is the feel/ sound combination factor to consider, too.)

Regarding the 128 vs 256 voices - probably you'd never notice the difference unless you were using the pianos sound engine to drive multi-track recording via midi. Then you would soon run out of voices.

But only for piano playing - maybe some of Debussy's 'ambient' typer pieces with lots and lots of sustain and ringing overtones might come close to 128 tones sounding at the same time....but I doubt it would make any differnce to what you hear. The piano sound, keyboard feel and the connection between the two is much, much more important.
_________________________
Roland HP 302, Yamaha SY85

Reaper / NI Komplete 9 /Kontakt 5// EWQL Sym Choirs/ Sym Orchestra Silver/ MOR2
Mics: SP B1 & MXL V67g/ Alesis MicTube Preamp/ Xenyx302/ Yamaha HS7s .

"Only a fool is fooled" pv88, All Fools' Day 2014.

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#2262529 - 04/16/14 09:57 AM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
tnsettlemo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/13
Posts: 24
Is the sound of the mp7 much better than the new Yamaha p255? I like the Yamaha p255, but it lacks the 3rd sensor. How much closer to a real piano is the sound and action of the mp7 vs p255? Is the build quality of Kawai digitals as good as Yamaha? Thanks guys, this is fun!


Edited by tnsettlemo (04/16/14 10:12 AM)

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#2262585 - 04/16/14 12:44 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: PianoZac]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3076
Originally Posted By: PianoZac
What's more important? Sound or action? Sonically I believe the RD-800 to be superior. From an action point of view, the MP10/MP11 is the king for slab style DPs

just to show again how subjective this is... having compared the MP10 with the FP7F (I not so distant predecessor, in a way, of the RD800), I would pick the MP10 for sound and the Roland for action!

As for the sensor question, the third sensor is primarily useful for rapid trills, and quiet-ish same-note repetitions. But even that is assuming all else is equal which, comparing across brands, won't be the case. There are 2-sensor actions which you may find more playable overall than other companies' 3-sensor actions.

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#2262780 - 04/16/14 08:26 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
trigalg693 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/08
Posts: 523
I guess I'll chime in. I have a Roland FP-7F and am an advanced pianist.

I picked the Roland because I had played some of the really high end Kawai digital pianos with cabinets and such, and to me they weren't as close to a real piano as a Roland V-Piano, which was supposed to be close to a FP-7F.

That said you're picking between 2 good choices. I think the features you absolutely need are the proper sensor tech (not the 6 level ones that came on the FP-4 and MP6 for example) and variable damper and una corda pedal. All the nicer actions with the sophisticated touch sensors come with "escapement" but it's useless, and as far as I know there aren't any digital pianos other than the Yamaha Avantgrand that have a true working escapement of any kind (which is a problem when you want to play certain things). Perhaps the PHA-4 and other new actions have extra sensors to try and emulate an escapement but I haven't tried them.

Go to a store and play some!


Edited by trigalg693 (04/16/14 08:26 PM)

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#2262781 - 04/16/14 08:28 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 134
Loc: Ohio, USA
Kawai is built well and has a nice warranty and great customer support (I had a small issue with my MP10 and they actually send someone to my house to fix it).

The third sensor is for advanced players used to a grand piano. Most upright pianos I've tried are not able to replicate what you can do with the third sensor.

There is a Youtube video comparing the MP10 and the RD800. They go through a few piano tones, and some I like the Roland and some the Kawai. About 30 seconds in front of the Roland was all I needed to know I didn't like the action.

I am not able to cause any note cut-out with 128 note polyphony, even just messing around with my foot on the pedal and lots of notes played. It was not long ago that 128 polyphony was huge. The MP10 was arguably one of the best DP's on the planet a month ago (now there's the MP11).

The Kawai sound is more natural throughout the entire keyboard than the Yamaha. Yamaha has some nice tones but still many sound 'fake' or computer generated. I don't get that sensation nearly as much on the Kawai.

I love my Kawai. If I bought it without ever playing it, I'd be thrilled. If I bought the Roland without ever playing it, I'd likely return it if possible. This is just to show how subjective the feel is.

Wood keys in and of themselves are not the biggest factor. But pair wood keys with a realistic pivoting action (same as on an acoustic piano), the overall feeling is a lot nicer than the plastic keys with hinges. When the key hits the bottom of the bed, the wood damps out the vibrations in a very natural way, well since wood is natural. It feels different than plastic. Kawai's plastic keys are by no means bad, but the wood keyed action just feels really sweet.

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#2262782 - 04/16/14 08:30 PM Re: Kawai mp7 vs Roland rd-800 [Re: tnsettlemo]
Joe Garfield Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 134
Loc: Ohio, USA
Also there is no clicking, rubbing, or uneven spacing on my MP10. If there was, the action is fully regulate-able by a piano technician, or anyone who doesn't mind opening up a digital piano (which is very easy to do on the MP10). It uses all real piano parts in the action. The letoff sensation is adjustable, the key stroke is adjustable, everything is tunable like on an acoustic. it uses real wood keys, real piano felt, adjustable capstans, etc etc.

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