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#2260077 - 04/11/14 03:39 AM Satinized Before/After Pictures
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
I've been reading old stuff on this forum about satinizing a high-gloss polyester. Seems there are three schools of thought.

1. Don't do it; it will look bad or not be as durable. Embrace the gloss.
2. It can look nice if you rough up the polyester, spray on lacquer, and then rub.
3. You can rub polyester; it won't look like lacquer, but can still look great.

I found the discussion interesting, but for all the thousands of words I'd still prefer some pictures.

Anyone have pictures of a satinized high-gloss polyester?

Anyone have pictures of a polyester sprayed with lacquer and then satinized?

Any before/after pictures?

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#2260086 - 04/11/14 04:35 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1258
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi Daniel, why would you want it? I am not kidding. If you have it done professionally it will be expensive. If you do it yourself the after will most probably be way worse then the before.
Finishes are the work of a professional.

In your position I would either buy a satin instrument or "Embrace shininess" wink


Edited by wimpiano (04/11/14 04:40 AM)
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#2260097 - 04/11/14 05:43 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Hi. Not saying I want it, but I want to learn more about it--even if only to see which of the above camps I fall into.

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#2260104 - 04/11/14 06:15 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1258
Loc: The Netherlands
I think in most cases the finish is in line with the rest of the design (don't want to generalize though). So I wouldn't make a modern high gloss instrument satin. That's just my personal taste. Leave as much as possible original when it comes to aesthetics. Especially when it comes to resale options.
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#2260171 - 04/11/14 10:12 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Thanks for your opinion. I would guess it's an opinion you came to after seeing the end product of a satinized piano, and that's just the kind of game I'm hunting here. I want to see one and I'm guessing someone here has a picture.

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#2260174 - 04/11/14 10:17 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8534
Loc: Georgia, USA
I've read here on the forum, from some pro piano dealers/rebuilders/refinishers that it is very difficult to satinize a shiny polyester finish. They say it leaves the finish with a foggy, whitish look.

I've owned a high-glass ebony finish piano and a satin ebony... I do like the satin best.

But, you know what they say... where there is a will there is a way. smile

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2260187 - 04/11/14 10:57 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
ShannonG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/14
Posts: 135
Loc: Canada
I read the title of this thread as 'SANITIZED before and after pics' and expected:

A. Crime scene photos
B. Photoshopped for sale ads
_________________________
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#2260189 - 04/11/14 11:03 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
terminaldegree Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 2677
Loc: western Wisconsin
I've seen a satinized polished ebony (poly) piano and thought it looked pretty lousy. Granted, sample size = 1.
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#2260193 - 04/11/14 11:15 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: ShannonG]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: ShannonG
I read the title of this thread as 'SANITIZED before and after pics' and expected:

A. Crime scene photos
B. Photoshopped for sale ads


In my initial post I almost mistakenly wrote "SATANIZED." Now that might have led to even more interesting expectations.

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#2260195 - 04/11/14 11:17 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
So far satinized pianos are a lot like big foot: I've heard from people who saw, but can't seem to catch a photograph.

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#2260205 - 04/11/14 11:42 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Satinizing a gloss poly finish will always have a more grayish color. For whatever reason, the satinized poly picks up a lot of light, so in a dark room, it looks pretty good, but in sunlight, it is not flattering.

It's a tremendous amount of work for the result, so we usually offer it as a last resort and charge accordingly.
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#2260207 - 04/11/14 11:50 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: daniel84020
So far satinized pianos are a lot like big foot: I've heard from people who saw, but can't seem to catch a photograph.
I think this is a fairly honest photo under showroom lighting + a little sunlight from front windows of a satinized poly finish. It looks better in low light, but I don't have that photo.
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#2260233 - 04/11/14 12:58 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: PianoWorksATL]
wimpiano Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 1258
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Satinizing a gloss poly finish will always have a more grayish color. For whatever reason, the satinized poly picks up a lot of light, so in a dark room, it looks pretty good, but in sunlight, it is not flattering.

It's a tremendous amount of work for the result, so we usually offer it as a last resort and charge accordingly.

That might be due to the fact that Poly isn't black. The color is mixed into it. At least that's the way I know it from different applications.


Edited by wimpiano (04/11/14 12:58 PM)
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#2260279 - 04/11/14 02:51 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: PianoWorksATL]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: PianoWorksATL
Originally Posted By: daniel84020
So far satinized pianos are a lot like big foot: I've heard from people who saw, but can't seem to catch a photograph.
I think this is a fairly honest photo under showroom lighting + a little sunlight from front windows of a satinized poly finish. It looks better in low light, but I don't have that photo.


My hero! Awesome. For all the discussion, there is so much you learn/understand just by looking at the thing.

I assume that's just taken down from the poly without the lacquer spray on top?

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#2260285 - 04/11/14 02:58 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
For anyone curious about how this came up for me, it's because I was talking to someone about this piano:



I appreciate that this is beautiful to some, but to me it's too much. (I'm a boring guy. You should see my neck ties. Not a colorful one in the bunch.) We have an amazing refinisher here and out of curiosity I called him over a month ago. Said he could do the whole thing in satin black for $2800. (I love living in a cheap market. Sorry to everyone on the coasts.)

Then yesterday I was talking to another guy about it, told him I didn't care for it, and he said for $800 I could get the Poly rubbed out (read: uniformly scratched) to a satin finish, which I think would also tone down the busyness of the piano.

I'm not thinking about any of those options at present, and I'd just do whatever my wife wanted me to do, but I became fascinated that with hours of tedious and careful labor and scotch brite pads a pro could actually do a decent refinishing job.


Edited by daniel84020 (04/11/14 03:01 PM)

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#2260325 - 04/11/14 04:22 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Tararex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/27/11
Posts: 408
Loc: Middle Georgia, USA
May I suggest something?

Unless it's a "NO WAY POSSIBLE WAY I CAN LIVE WITH THAT" type of thing; if you have already purchased this piano wait until it has been in place a half year or so before making major - possibly irreparable - change to an original upscale finish.

After this time has passed you may find:

1. The finish appears less "busy" and more "glowing" in an incandescent light home setting.

2. You may like the grain patterns once the initial shock of uniqueness wears off.

3. You will have sufficient time to research and select an optimum refinish method for the piano, if it has to be so.

There's always the possibility that you'll hate it even more later - but as this was an expensive original option it must have appealed to an aesthetic opinion somewhere at one time.
_________________________

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#2260329 - 04/11/14 04:27 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
PianoWorksATL Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2708
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: daniel84020
My hero! Awesome. For all the discussion, there is so much you learn/understand just by looking at the thing.

I assume that's just taken down from the poly without the lacquer spray on top?
Correct. I'm guessing from your photo that the finish is bubinga. IMO, the polish bubinga would not turn out well if satinized at this point. I would never satinize a poly wood finish by sanding. I've never tried to spray clear lacquer over poly over wood...but I do not believe the result would be desirable because of the depth of the clear finish below.

If originally done in satin lacquer or matte poly, bubinga is beautiful and toned down for your taste. Lighting experts can also soften the effect.
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Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Weber & Hailun
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#2260391 - 04/11/14 06:23 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: Tararex]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19346
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Tararex
May I suggest something?

Unless it's a "NO WAY POSSIBLE WAY I CAN LIVE WITH THAT" type of thing; if you have already purchased this piano wait until it has been in place a half year or so before making major - possibly irreparable - change to an original upscale finish.

After this time has passed you may find:

1. The finish appears less "busy" and more "glowing" in an incandescent light home setting.

2. You may like the grain patterns once the initial shock of uniqueness wears off.

3. You will have sufficient time to research and select an optimum refinish method for the piano, if it has to be so.

There's always the possibility that you'll hate it even more later - but as this was an expensive original option it must have appealed to an aesthetic opinion somewhere at one time.
Very good advice IMO.

I bet a lot of first time grand owners with relatively small piano rooms have first found the piano huge looking but gotten used to it quite quickly. I know I have.

Same thing for the finish. When I switched from a wood tone 5'8" piano to an ebony 7' piano I didn't like the ebony color at first although I liked it a lot in the showroom. I even considered getting some kind of piano throw to put on the lid. After a few weeks I began to love the ebony finish.


Edited by pianoloverus (04/11/14 06:29 PM)

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#2260416 - 04/11/14 07:47 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
KurtZ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/13/10
Posts: 897
Loc: The Heart of Screenland
I don't like busy grain on pianos but I cannot see a good result from trying to satinize that piano.

Kurt
_________________________
I just wanted to be just "a" guy. That's enough of a life.

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#2260483 - 04/11/14 10:27 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: Tararex]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Tararex
May I suggest something?

Unless it's a "NO WAY POSSIBLE WAY I CAN LIVE WITH THAT" type of thing; if you have already purchased this piano wait until it has been in place a half year or so before making major - possibly irreparable - change to an original upscale finish.

After this time has passed you may find:

1. The finish appears less "busy" and more "glowing" in an incandescent light home setting.

2. You may like the grain patterns once the initial shock of uniqueness wears off.

3. You will have sufficient time to research and select an optimum refinish method for the piano, if it has to be so.

There's always the possibility that you'll hate it even more later - but as this was an expensive original option it must have appealed to an aesthetic opinion somewhere at one time.


Like Pianolover, I also think this is good advice. But I would add:

Regarding your first point, on a light meter our living room was much brighter than the showroom where the piano is. With the second point, I think you are--at least in spirit--correct here. While I don't think I'd ever choose it or prefer it or even like it, I'm sure with time I'd get used to it, and that's something. And with the third point, it would seem I already know the best way to address the issue: have the refinisher universally recommended by every tech and dealer I've talked to refinish it in satin ebony.

We haven't bought the piano, but I think it is the one my wife is leaning toward. (She just told me that tonight.) She is quick to add, however, "I just don't want to be those weird people who have an orange piano." I'm not sure exactly who the "those people" she has in mind are, but she seems sincerely concerned. So, if we do get it. then there is a good chance it'll get refinished.

Like I said earlier, whatever she wants I'll do.

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#2260485 - 04/11/14 10:30 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Thanks for the great feedback and thoughts, and a big special thanks to Sam for providing the picture of "bigfoot."

And, for the record, it looks like I am falling into camp 3: It doesn't look like a lacquer satin, but it can still look nice. (At least when done well.)

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#2260493 - 04/11/14 10:53 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Oongawa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 252
You might love it once it's in your home, and the lighting will make an enormous difference.

If the bench is the same finish, maybe you could take it home and see?

I had a small white piano before this (black laquer) one. I did NOT want white but was talked into it. I could not beleive how great it looked in the room.

You might be surprised.
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#2268318 - 04/28/14 06:46 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
For anyone curious, this is what a high-gloss bubinga piano looks like after it's been refinished to satin ebony:


[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzISW8OYwizRSm1qNmQxVlY0eDJOZVdncmtxU3NMNUpaUlhV/edit?usp=sharing[/img]

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzISW8OYwizRQjktVHVOWGQxcE1ZUE9QQ010NVNPb3RVQUlB/edit?usp=sharing[/img]

[img]https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzISW8OYwizRNnhzYmZHWjVEZnd4bkd3S3lEM3pXWVJQdGVB/edit?usp=sharing[/img]

For anyone thinking about doing this, turns out the key was to work the arrangement through the dealer. The refinisher gave me the price of $2800. I'm a one-time job for him. He gave the dealer the price of $1900. (Not bad at all.)

I'm beyond happy with the job.

Also, in case anyone is additionally curious, we had them satinize the bubinga bench via the scotchbrite method. From what we had read here, we knew it wouldn't work out well, but we were curious. Nope. Not a good idea. It looked like the bench was covered in a film from a bad cleaner, or kind of like the stage after you apply wax to your car, but before you buff it out. Hope some googler in a similar predicament will find all of this useful some day.

Thanks all for your very good advice and help. When I started this thread I wasn't seriously considering this option, but I got just enough knowledge here to help me move forward and I'm glad I did.


Edited by daniel84020 (04/28/14 07:22 PM)

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#2268319 - 04/28/14 06:52 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
BDB Online   content
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Registered: 06/07/03
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Loc: Oakland
That is amazing! I would never have thought just changing the finish would make a piano look like a phone!
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#2268324 - 04/28/14 07:05 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7435
Loc: Rochester MN
All I link to are 403 errors.
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#2268334 - 04/28/14 07:15 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: Minnesota Marty]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
All I link to are 403 errors.


Come use my computer. They look great and I'll be working in the yard for the rest of the day.

(But, seriously, I'll work on this.)

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#2268340 - 04/28/14 07:33 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
daniel84020 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/13/14
Posts: 83
Loc: Draper, Utah, U.S.A.
If the piano still looks like a phone or 403 error, let me know.

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#2268399 - 04/28/14 09:24 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
supersport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Arkansas
I like the wood tones but the Bubinga is a too busy for me too. I like it better now. Congratulations to you and your wife on getting your new piano.

(Did they leave the name off the fallboard?)


Edited by supersport (04/28/14 09:27 PM)
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#2268402 - 04/28/14 09:32 PM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7435
Loc: Rochester MN
It looks beautiful!

(The links are working now.)
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It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2268490 - 04/29/14 03:23 AM Re: Satinized Before/After Pictures [Re: daniel84020]
Ben_NZ Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 63
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I might have been tempted to hide less of the bubinga, like Perzina do on this model:

http://www.freeburgpianos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Perzina-T-188-Bubinga-e1390506512936.jpg

Or just adapt the rest of your house:

http://tours.tourfactory.com/tours/media/scene/big2/00/22/57/76/22577676.jpg wink

But I admit I'm biased towards unsubtle wood finishes and I'm not a fan of satin.
I think that black finish probably suits your existing room better though; a wood finish might not work with your wooden floors.
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