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#2260108 - 04/11/14 06:44 AM Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones
wimpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 2004
Loc: The Netherlands
I am about to make an appointment with my piano tuner. (For a scheduled tuning)
Some notes in the lower tenor section have metallic overtones (not really bad but I notice it). Also they seem a bit louder then I want.
Some might have to do with my playing ability (heavier left hand wink ), some of it might have to do with the room (open, hardwood floor over concrete).

But it definitely also has to do with my piano.

What would be the best thing to say to my tuner/tech about this?
Could the metallic overtones be solved by just tuning?

_________________________
Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....

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#2260118 - 04/11/14 07:38 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Just explain it as you have here and demonstrate what you are hearing. Let the tech suggest a solution as it could be almost anything that you are hearing.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2260143 - 04/11/14 08:51 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 2004
Loc: The Netherlands
Thanks, sounds logical, it's his job.
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....

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#2260178 - 04/11/14 10:24 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8701
Loc: Georgia, USA
Hey Wimpiano, I've noticed that sound before on some of my pianos... an ever-so-slightly out of tune unison can cause it and a fine tuning can fix it. Sometimes the hammer needs just a few slight pokes from a voicing needle and you'd be surprised at the improvement.

Sometimes the string bearing points could need attention/reseating. Sometimes it can be a defect in the string.

There are several things that can cause that metalic overtone, and some of the fixes are simple and some are complex. A good tech should be able to take care of if for you.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#2260213 - 04/11/14 12:15 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Rickster]
Annitenth Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 472
Loc: Texas
Please post the results of your tuning. I've had a similar problem, in the higher notes, and repeated tunings have not seemed to help. In fact, the two tuners I've had don't even seem to hear the problem. (which suggests it's my hearing, not my piano.)
_________________________
Anne
B�sendorfer 225
Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307

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#2260249 - 04/11/14 01:37 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2260254 - 04/11/14 01:55 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
S. Phillips Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 389
Loc: Forte Farm, Lexington, KY
Usually tonal issues in the tenor are the result of poor hammer fit to the strings. The hammer will probably need slight filing to correctly fit them and then a bit of needling to even the tonal production of each string.

This is because of the angle of the hammers in the tenor and the arc of the hammer in motion. This results in the majority of the hammer fitting issues residing in the tenor section.

Metallic sounds in the treble can also be hammer fitting but can result from the energy of the string escaping to the front of the string area just in front of the capo bar or aggraffe. Several solutions for that exist. Muting those strings, proper reshaping of the capo bar, correction of the weight of the hammer by reshaping or reducing the size of the molding. Sometimes it is simply isolating the area of the hammer that is producing the metallic sound and needling to correct.
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#2260260 - 04/11/14 01:57 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Rich Galassini Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/28/01
Posts: 9691
Loc: Philadelphia/South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.


...what?
_________________________
Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
Dir. Line (215) 991-0834
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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#2260261 - 04/11/14 01:59 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Rich Galassini]
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 7439
Loc: Rochester MN
Originally Posted By: Rich Galassini
Originally Posted By: Minnesota Marty
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.


...what?


whome
_________________________
Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.

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#2260265 - 04/11/14 02:07 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 22491
Loc: Oakland
Many pianos have very low tension in the lower tenor compared to the rest of the piano, especially smaller pianos. But most problems can be eased by good tuning, and if that is not enough, some voicing.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#2260314 - 04/11/14 03:51 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14603
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
Usually tonal issues in the tenor are the result of poor hammer fit to the strings. The hammer will probably need slight filing to correctly fit them and then a bit of needling to even the tonal production of each string.


It's basically part of normal concert work including voicing procedure and prep.
It certainly goes beyond 'tuning'

Most pianos, especially grands, will benefit from it from time to time.
It can and often *does* make a big difference.

Please note: not all tuners/techs are good at this or know how to get optimal results.

Pick carefully who you hire for the job...

Norbert smile


Edited by Norbert (04/11/14 03:52 PM)
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#2260472 - 04/11/14 10:07 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Minnesota Marty]
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/12
Posts: 2859
Loc: Seattle, WA USA
Great advice!
_________________________
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible

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#2279128 - 05/21/14 07:57 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 2004
Loc: The Netherlands
Tuner came along, fixed it. Just tuning smile He visited this morning and have been playing since. I am having a blast.
No more metallic overtones and the sustain in the treble is longer. Treble seems to float.
It was not that it was very much out of tune according to him but this minor difference does SO much!!
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....

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#2279149 - 05/21/14 08:32 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
BrianDX Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/14/14
Posts: 1349
Loc: First Town, First State
This story gives me some positive vibes.

Although we are currently very happy with our new piano, I'm hearing some "buzzing" in the lower octaves, especially between C2 and A3. I don't hear this in our teacher's Yamaha C3.

I'm hoping this is something that can be addressed when the piano gets its first tuning in a couple of weeks?
_________________________
2013 Yamaha C2X | 2001 Yamaha M500-F ...
"Oh, that's the sanity clause": Groucho Marx
Curriculum: Faber PA Level 3B; Faber DA Book 2
Current: Sea Chanty Variations (Faber); Russian Folk Dance (Beethoven) (OF)

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#2279153 - 05/21/14 08:43 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
wimpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 2004
Loc: The Netherlands
@BrianDX, I am sure it will. The tenor break got some extra attention and it really payed off!
Incredible what a "simple" tuning can do. It really makes me happy!
_________________________
Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....

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#2279348 - 05/21/14 05:51 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: wimpiano]
Grandman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 256
Loc: Usa
Yep, nothing like a well tuned piano. Makes me happy!

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