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#2260775 - 04/12/14 06:02 PM Non Harmonic Tone
ezpiano.org Offline
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MacDowell: To the Sea, Op. 55, No. 1

I am very puzzled:
What is the name of the circled non-harmonic tone in measure 6?

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#2260776 - 04/12/14 06:03 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Thank you for helping!
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#2260779 - 04/12/14 06:03 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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#2260780 - 04/12/14 06:05 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Polyphonist Offline
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What do you mean the name? It's an accented passing tone.
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#2260781 - 04/12/14 06:06 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?


Edited by ezpiano.org (04/12/14 06:07 PM)
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#2260803 - 04/12/14 06:55 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
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I don't see anything.

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#2260835 - 04/12/14 08:42 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
AZNpiano Offline
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Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?

Your student is correct. The answer key contains a different answer.
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#2260837 - 04/12/14 08:50 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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What is the answer on the answer key?

Thanks!
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#2260838 - 04/12/14 08:51 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Hi KeyString, can you try one more time for the link above?

Or, here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxdJp3V5iKZqRlZKbGgtbkhCQzA/edit?usp=sharing
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#2260839 - 04/12/14 08:59 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: AZNpiano]
TimR Offline
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When I looked at it I said passing tone.

When I played it and listened I thought suspension.

But it doesn't really resolve, does it?
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#2260855 - 04/12/14 10:06 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Morodiene Offline
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It's a 2-1 suspension, but it doesn't sound like it with the B-flat minor chord it's resolving to, so it's almost like a deceptive cadence. Of course, this is kicking around a lot of cobwebs, so I could just be spouting nonsense. smile
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#2260885 - 04/13/14 12:17 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
AZNpiano Offline
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It's not a suspension. There would need to be a tie from the previous chord, or at least the same note from the previous chord being replayed on the current chord, followed by a stepwise descent.
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#2260887 - 04/13/14 12:24 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Offline
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As far I can tell it's an "accented passing note", not "just a passing note". It's on a strong beat and perhaps this is why "passing note" was crossed out as wrong.

It's the kind of thing we see in a lot of Bach Chorals, btw...
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#2260909 - 04/13/14 03:31 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
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The classical textbook meaning of suspension I know wants to have the tie, but there is a suspended kind of feel to it. What I'm hearing is an Fm in beat 1, and when we get to that Eb, it sounds like the Eb of Fm7 coming so late, that the Fm isn't there anymore. And of course Fm7 moves to Bbm, which we have next. If that Eb had come a tad earlier, we would actually have a suspension that we could tie over; even the stepwise descent would be there (Eb to Db). There is also an appoggiatura feel to it - this heavy lean into the Eb which then resolves to the Db which is part of the Bbm chord.

I would love to know what this is from, and where it's located in the music, because it feels like it's in the middle of something. It sounds quite lovely.

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#2260912 - 04/13/14 03:41 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Offline
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I don't think it's necessary to have a tie, if the pitch is there in the previous chord (and is part of the chord, otherwise we're entering Wagnerian realms, which gets tricky)...

It IS an appoggiatura (which as far as I know is the correct answer to this test), but it's a wrong "correct answer", exactly because it's acting as a passing tone (because of the D and B before and afterwards). But on a strong beat (thus my reply of an "accented passing note" which is not part of the curriculum of CM!
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#2260916 - 04/13/14 03:52 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: Nikolas]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Nikolas
I don't think it's necessary to have a tie, if the pitch is there in the previous chord (and is part of the chord, otherwise we're entering Wagnerian realms, which gets tricky)...

In formal theory the way it is taught, I believe the tie-rule is in there. Music does more than what formal theory teaches. In fact, one of the books I studied has a caveat in the beginning, warning that what's in there reflects only a certain type of music in a limited period. (Which was interesting to see written out like that).
Quote:

It IS an appoggiatura (which as far as I know is the correct answer to this test), but it's a wrong "correct answer", exactly because it's acting as a passing tone (because of the D and B before and afterwards). But on a strong beat (thus my reply of an "accented passing note" which is not part of the curriculum of CM!

EZ's student had written "passing tone", and that was marked wrong. "Accented passing tone" is probably right, but it also makes us think of Fm7 which moves to the Bbm, and then our accented passing tone also acts as an appoggiatura. smile

Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way? laugh

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#2260917 - 04/13/14 03:53 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: AZNpiano]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?

Your student is correct. The answer key contains a different answer.


I am curious, you seen the answer key, what is the answer key to this question?
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#2260918 - 04/13/14 03:55 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Originally Posted By: KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way? laugh


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.
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#2260919 - 04/13/14 03:58 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Below is the whole piece.

It is in measure 6, the top E-Flat at beat 3.

Whole Piece


Edited by ezpiano.org (04/13/14 03:59 AM)
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#2260923 - 04/13/14 04:26 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
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Here is your piece, once on piano

once (different key) as an orchestra arrangement

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#2260924 - 04/13/14 04:27 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?

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#2261234 - 04/13/14 08:45 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: AZNpiano]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
It's not a suspension. There would need to be a tie from the previous chord, or at least the same note from the previous chord being replayed on the current chord, followed by a stepwise descent.

Doesn't the fact that there are half notes underneath that are held while the suspension resolves itself count?
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#2261237 - 04/13/14 08:47 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: keystring]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?


I like the way WMTA handles their theory tests. They do their best to put things in there with obvious answers, or rather, obvious examples of the thing they are testing. It's not trying to be obscure or tricky. It sounds like we are in a bit of a disagreement as to what it is, so I'm curious what the answer key says it is, and why they felt this was a good example of one.
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#2261311 - 04/13/14 11:44 PM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Polyphonist Offline
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If the answer key says anything other than accented passing tone, the answer key is wrong.
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#2261321 - 04/14/14 12:22 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.
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#2261342 - 04/14/14 01:31 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
keystring Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.

Do I get a prize? laugh
Originally Posted By: keystring
]here is also an appoggiatura feel to it - this heavy lean into the Eb which then resolves to the Db which is part of the Bbm chord....

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#2261355 - 04/14/14 02:06 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
ezpiano.org Offline
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Hahaha....
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#2261358 - 04/14/14 02:41 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
Nikolas Offline
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Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.
Well.. CM is wrong. Tell them to call me if you want! grin
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#2261404 - 04/14/14 05:05 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: ezpiano.org]
drumour Offline
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I can see why they would say it's an appoggiatura - an unprepared dissonance which resolves by step. But they should also have accepted accented passing-note as, if you like, a more specific kind of appoggiatura. It certainly is not a suspension where the dissonant note is held over from the previous chord, in which it is a harmony-note, and then resolved by step.


John
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#2261441 - 04/14/14 07:50 AM Re: Non Harmonic Tone [Re: keystring]
Charles Cohen Online   content
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Originally Posted By: keystring
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?


Since you asked:

. . . "Theory" is the grammar of music.

In the same way that you can speak, without "knowing" grammar, you can write (and play) music without "knowing" theory.

But when you _do_ know it, it puts what you're doing into a useful structure. It can stop you from making bad choices, and help you make good ones.

And sometimes, you break the rules, because you _really_ like the sound.

. Charles

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