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#2261997 - 04/15/14 07:52 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 36251]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: 36251
They should just make caps for XLR, attached like a gas cap. You take them off when you have the cables.


Voilą! Problem solved again! Better than my idea.

This is really not a conundrum for Roland.
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KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2262023 - 04/15/14 08:59 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
dje31 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 218
Given the litigious nature of far-too-many of us Yanks here in the States, the lack of tort reform, and proliferation of frivolous lawsuits by chuckleheads trying to win the lawsuit lottery, if I were Roland, I'd only worry about it in the US.

You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.


Edited by dje31 (04/15/14 09:00 AM)
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#2262027 - 04/15/14 09:05 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
dje31 Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 218
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Excellent, Marko. Well played!
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Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30

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#2262082 - 04/15/14 11:24 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dje31]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4352
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: dje31
You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.

IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

But anyone who gets electrocuted because Roland blew it is a idiot? Or does this only apply in the US if your surviving spouse / children seek redress in court? I'm confused...
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#2262097 - 04/15/14 12:14 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Phlox Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 121
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston


Good one Marko !!
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#2262106 - 04/15/14 12:27 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 819
Originally Posted By: dewster
IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

Indeed.

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#2262342 - 04/15/14 08:22 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dewster
angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.


Good point.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2262415 - 04/15/14 11:47 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4352
Loc: Northern NJ
Roland basically sets you up to fry your brand new DP and people start hollering about the nanny state, Darwin awards, and tort reform. We all have our pet peeves, but are lawyers running around stealing everyone's spouses? Are stupid people barking at night keeping everyone up? What's with all the punching down?
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#2262456 - 04/16/14 04:16 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3604
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
Roland basically sets you up to fry your brand new DP and people start hollering about the nanny state, Darwin awards, and tort reform. We all have our pet peeves,

Yeah, and for some, the stupidity of actually frying your Roland in this way and then blaming Roland could be considered a pet peeve. Roland did not set this up. Brain dead users merely forced Roland to issue a warning to all stupid people.

Quote:
but are lawyers running around stealing everyone's spouses?

Sometimes, yeah, but not really relevant.

Quote:
Are stupid people barking at night keeping everyone up?

Again, yeah, all the time, but still not relevant.

Quote:
What's with all the punching down?

Because it's ridiculous that somebody will actually do this to their Roland.

Dewster, you are known for your irreverent style and not pulling punches - why the role-reversal? Are we not allowed to find this whole thing ridiculous?

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#2262480 - 04/16/14 07:06 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2635
Originally Posted By: dewster
Roland basically sets you up to fry your brand new DP and people start hollering about the nanny state, Darwin awards, and tort reform. We all have our pet peeves, but are lawyers running around stealing everyone's spouses? Are stupid people barking at night keeping everyone up? What's with all the punching down?


All of these comments mean nothing if you don't have your health:

I currently wake up every morning now feeling like the left side of my head and ear is floating in fluid (from either allergies and/or previous sinus infection) and the doctors only give you a nasal spray to alleviate a "symptom" which means the underlying cause of your problem has not been determined.

Let's just continue putting bandaids over the gun shot wound.

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#2262626 - 04/16/14 02:34 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4352
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ando
Roland did not set this up.

Wha??

Originally Posted By: ando
Are we not allowed to find this whole thing ridiculous?

Fine, but I'd feel better if some of that was directed at Roland rather than 100% at the hapless average Joe who shorts out his spankin' new RD800 feeling around on a cramped, dark stage. It's the superior attitude thing I don't get. We all screw up now and then, to err is human and all that.

At least Roland seems to be taking it seriously, and that's kind of saying something. I don't think they would be reacting unless the issue had substance.
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#2262664 - 04/16/14 03:57 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3604
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: ando
Roland did not set this up.

Wha??


I was using your own wording back at you, Dewster. You said: "Roland basically sets you up to fry your brand new DP..."

I just said they didn't set anyone up.

Quote:
Originally Posted By: ando
Are we not allowed to find this whole thing ridiculous?

Fine, but I'd feel better if some of that was directed at Roland rather than 100% at the hapless average Joe who shorts out his spankin' new RD800 feeling around on a cramped, dark stage. It's the superior attitude thing I don't get. We all screw up now and then, to err is human and all that.


Yeah sure, but aren't you taking this all a bit seriously? Ok, so a few of us made light of the incredible unlikeliness of plugging a power cord into an XLR socket - which led to some wider comments about personal responsibility and nanny-state. But none of us is wanting to see somebody fry their keyboard or themselves, so I'm sure none of us is too concerned that Roland issued a warning about careful use of the power cord.

I still find it stupefyingly unlikely. I've got a power cord like that here and I tried to plug it into an XLR socket - let me tell you this, even though they might look vaguely compatible on an internet picture, in reality they are not even close to being compatible. I can't even get close to getting that plug in that socket. The pins do not line up, and the outer ring will not permit that plug from getting in there - not even close, far too wide.

For somebody to actually succeed in "frying" their Roland, they would have to take a utility knife and butcher the heck out of that plug, and then bend the heck out of the XLR pins, and even then have to apply substantial force to make any electrical contact. There is no way somebody can damage their Roland "on a dark stage" or anywhere else. Try it for yourself - it simply won't happen. This wouldn't be a "screw up" or "erring as human", it would be a concerted effort to change the physical properties of the plug and make it go where it clearly does not fit. In reality, the worst thing that is actually going to happen is that some guy can't manage to plug in his keyboard because he keeps trying the wrong socket. It's not actually dangerous.

Now, considering that, does it seems so strange that this issue has drawn a few ridiculing remarks? It's only getting ridicule because it's ridiculous.


Quote:

At least Roland seems to be taking it seriously, and that's kind of saying something. I don't think they would be reacting unless the issue had substance.

They have a legal department, who naturally advised them to cover their asses and put out an advisory. It's standard practice. Doesn't mean the issue has any real credibility.

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#2262779 - 04/16/14 08:24 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 540
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: dje31
You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.

IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

But anyone who gets electrocuted because Roland blew it is a idiot? Or does this only apply in the US if your surviving spouse / children seek redress in court? I'm confused...


I completely agree with you. This is a design error. Yeah it would be stupid to actually do it to yourself but people do stupid things every day- its human nature. the burden shouldn't be on the user - there is simply no way that you should be able to inadvertently plug the electrical power cord into anything other than the electrical power receptacle. Period. Putting a warning on a website isn't good enough. That is far too passive. I'd eat that up if i were a lawyer representing some poor schmo who went to learn chopsticks and wound up playing smoke on the water.

Consciously abusing a product and then blaming the manufacturer- well that's one thing. This is another. I think Roland knows that.
_________________________

Steinway M; Roland V-Piano; Yamaha P250; Roland FP 5
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#2262867 - 04/17/14 01:37 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: bfb]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
Nobody can anticipate how stupid an idiot really is.
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Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2262868 - 04/17/14 01:43 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: torhu]
torhu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 183
But seriously. As long as nobody can point to any actual information about this, it's not unlikely that this story is just a lie.
_________________________
Roland RD-700NX // Galaxy Vintage D

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#2262878 - 04/17/14 02:01 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: torhu]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: torhu
As long as nobody can point to any actual information about this, it's not unlikely that this story is just a lie.


Check the link in third post of this thread.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2262884 - 04/17/14 02:09 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: bfb]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3604
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: bfb
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: dje31
You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.

IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

But anyone who gets electrocuted because Roland blew it is a idiot? Or does this only apply in the US if your surviving spouse / children seek redress in court? I'm confused...


I completely agree with you. This is a design error. Yeah it would be stupid to actually do it to yourself but people do stupid things every day- its human nature. the burden shouldn't be on the user - there is simply no way that you should be able to inadvertently plug the electrical power cord into anything other than the electrical power receptacle. Period. Putting a warning on a website isn't good enough. That is far too passive. I'd eat that up if i were a lawyer representing some poor schmo who went to learn chopsticks and wound up playing smoke on the water.

Consciously abusing a product and then blaming the manufacturer- well that's one thing. This is another. I think Roland knows that.



No, it isn't. Have you read my post above? It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible. I'm amazed at how willing many people are to just have a cursory look at the 3 pin pattern and conclude that you can plug them into each other.

This is a massive storm in a teacup. After having seen just how impossible it is to make this mistake without wilful vandalism of the product, I don't even think Roland should have had to issue any kind of statement on the matter. They should be applauded for doing so, but it just isn't necessary. I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.

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#2262891 - 04/17/14 02:24 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ando
I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.


Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2262892 - 04/17/14 02:28 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Kawai James]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3604
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: ando
I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.


Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.


I've got one of those here too. They still don't fit. Spacing is wrong and outer plug doesn't fit the XLR hole. I don't think even the pin thickness is compatible either. Again, you have to butcher the plug and the pins to make it go in there.

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#2262932 - 04/17/14 05:36 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2405
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba. They are two different kinds of plugs/sockets. One doesn't fit the other. Non issue. Next they'll be reminding us that pressing middle C won't transport you into the future - just in case some moron imagined it would in some drug induced psychotic episode.
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#2262937 - 04/17/14 05:54 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: EssBrace]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3604
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba. They are two different kinds of plugs/sockets. One doesn't fit the other. Non issue. Next they'll be reminding us that pressing middle C won't transport you into the future - just in case some moron imagined it would in some drug induced psychotic episode.

+1, Steve.

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#2263057 - 04/17/14 12:44 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4352
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: ando
It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible.

Not sure what kind of AC plug is causing the trouble (Roland just says "outside the US" in their advisory wording) but I just tried plugging an IEC 60320 C-7 connector into one of the 3 pin XLR connectors on the back of our RD-700NX.


Figure 1. IEC 60320 C-7 power cord connector.


Figure 2. 3 pin XLR chassis connector.


Figure 3. Fits like a glove in our NX!

It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming of dividing the world into betters and lessers.

[UPDATE]

Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

And the C8 is the chassis connector for the C-7 cord I found frighteningly easy to plug into the XLR. Thanks for that info James!
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#2263067 - 04/17/14 01:14 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 386
Loc: Poland
If the washmachines instructions for americans wouldn't had to have written inside "do not wash you cat or other animal", there would be no need for Roland to for such move which makes me a lot of fun lolz. But as long as it is obligatory, also with "do not dry your cat inside the microvawe oven" it had to be like this, making a lot of fun for the rest of the world from American strange law lolz.

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#2263078 - 04/17/14 01:33 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
lolatu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 480
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: dewster
It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

What happens when you turn the power on?
_________________________
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#2263090 - 04/17/14 02:07 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: lolatu]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 902
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: lolatu

What happens when you turn the power on?


_________________________
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#2263091 - 04/17/14 02:10 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: lolatu]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4352
Loc: Northern NJ
^ exactly ^

Originally Posted By: lolatu
What happens when you turn the power on?

This is the electrical fittings department. I think you're looking for the electrocution, blow it up, and make it catch fire department, which is down the hall to your left. You can't miss it, it has a big "Roland" sign on the door.
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#2263092 - 04/17/14 02:11 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
GLR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/14
Posts: 42
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: ando
It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible.

Not sure what kind of AC plug is causing the trouble (Roland just says "outside the US" in their advisory wording) but I just tried plugging an IEC 60320 C-7 connector into one of the 3 pin XLR connectors on the back of our RD-700NX.


Figure 1. IEC 60320 C-7 power cord connector.


Figure 2. 3 pin XLR chassis connector.


Figure 3. Fits like a glove in our NX!

It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming of dividing the world into betters and lessers.


Well put. Thanks for posting this.

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#2263136 - 04/17/14 04:09 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: GLR]
maurus Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/11
Posts: 819
Thanks dewster for posting this. The issue obviously is a serious issue. Whatever those who always know everything better may think.

And of course AC plugs vary widely in different countries. That someone is safe in HER or HIS country of course doesn't imply that everyone is. A common fallacy of ignorance: What's true in my neck of the woods must be true everywhere.

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#2263149 - 04/17/14 04:46 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Kawai James]
slipperykeys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/03/12
Posts: 379
Loc: Dorset, England
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Originally Posted By: dewster
angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.


Good point.

Yes it is a good point. So how many manufacturers followed Roland's lead in angling the back panel out so that you could see what you were doing?

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#2263154 - 04/17/14 04:54 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: slipperykeys]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
I find this whole issue very interesting and I wonder if Roland is going back to drawing board with the internal power supply configuration. I see that no one has the RD800 in stock currently and maybe they are recalling them to replace the internal power supply back to what the previous models used (the RD700 series) with a standard IEC cable. That certainly sounds costly if they are in fact reconfiguring the RD800 to have a standard IEC connector cable, but it might solve problems in the future. I really don't know why they changed the configuration in the first place, I doubt that it was significantly cheaper or made the keyboard any lighter.


Edited by Rhodie73 (04/17/14 04:59 PM)
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