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#2263161 - 04/17/14 05:14 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

James, do you know if the C8 chassis connector used on all RD-800's?

Jay Roland, could you please weigh in on this whole issue?
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#2263165 - 04/17/14 05:23 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: EssBrace]
PianoZac Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/10
Posts: 1422
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba. They are two different kinds of plugs/sockets. One doesn't fit the other. Non issue. Next they'll be reminding us that pressing middle C won't transport you into the future - just in case some moron imagined it would in some drug induced psychotic episode.


Rotfl. That is hilarious Steve! laugh
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#2263168 - 04/17/14 05:27 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: maurus]
Providence Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/29/10
Posts: 137
Originally Posted By: maurus
Thanks dewster for posting this. The issue obviously is a serious issue. Whatever those who always know everything better may think..

+1

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#2263169 - 04/17/14 05:31 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
kapelli Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 380
Loc: Poland
SOrry, but reading this all thread makes me think of all you guys (only those who are seeing it a big and serious problem) that you often are telling to your woman "sorry baby, I missed the holes, it was dark, I haven't seen, and my plug fits both!"... few seconds after receiving the slap on yout face lol.

Sorry, but I couldn't. Why the heck some comapny should be responsible for someone's stupidity and blindness?

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#2263173 - 04/17/14 05:46 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: maurus]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 848
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: maurus
The issue obviously is a serious issue. Whatever those who always know everything better may think.



How the heck is this a "serious issue"?? Im not every sure it was worth a mention from Roland. Wow, what is this world coming to.
Oh well, lets dummy proof the world. I guess it can only help for guys like this:

_________________________
KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | TRAYNOR K4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS ERIS 5 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD380 | K&M OMEGA

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#2263183 - 04/17/14 06:23 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
dewster Online   content
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Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
We all find humor in laws and measures that strike us as overly protective, and a lot of that is because we are (or like to think of ourselves as) fully functional. But we share this world with a variety of others who are less fortunate. Regardless of one's current MENSA status, it is depressingly normal to be quite mentally vulnerable during one's formative and final years. Is it a good thing when your teen or aging parent dies in a car accident? Does your young one deserve to drown when she swims in water that doesn't have a lifeguard or an emergency call box? Or maybe it's your fault for not supervising the entirety of your kith and kin 100% of the time?

Very few in this world are so stupid that they don't care what happens to themselves. People who get injured are often bright but engaging in activities that are inherently quite dangerous (driving, swimming) that they often can't avoid even if they wanted to (stairs, slippery tubs, commuting, on-the-job dangers, etc.). This the modern world we live in.

This isn't some software glitch we're talking about, it's AC power going into pins that were never designed nor intended to have that happen. Here in the US that's 120V, but in (most?) other countries it's double that. Doubling voltage through a given resistance (the body) quadruples the power. I've been shocked pretty good with 120V, I'd hate to experience what 240V feels like, particularly unexpectedly from a DP.

If I were the final judge here, I'd assign some of the blame to the connector standards bodies for making this possible in the first place (AC connectors are supposedly shaped the way they are to avoid this exact situation), some to Roland for not doing their due diligence, and perhaps some to the user depending on the situation (e.g. if they did it knowingly and willfully).
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#2263189 - 04/17/14 06:29 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
GLR Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/12/14
Posts: 42
Judging by the comments on here it appears there are several that have never made any kind of mistake their entire lives. Name calling those who might have for whatever reason inadvertently touched the power cable to the wrong socket obviously have never done anything their lives but push pencils or shuffle papers. Those who call others dummies, idiots, etc. are...well I'll hold my tongue.. I've been on many forums but this is the lowest. I'm done with site and yea I'll watch the door.

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#2263219 - 04/17/14 08:23 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: GLR]
Marko in Boston Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 848
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: GLR
Judging by the comments on here it appears there are several that have never made any kind of mistake their entire lives. Name calling those who might have for whatever reason inadvertently touched the power cable to the wrong socket obviously have never done anything their lives but push pencils or shuffle papers. Those who call others dummies, idiots, etc. are...well I'll hold my tongue.. I've been on many forums but this is the lowest. I'm done with site and yea I'll watch the door.


We all make dumb mistakes, the problem is that too many are too quick to blame someone else for their mistakes. Sure , Ive cut myself with a carpenter knife by accident, I got a shock trying to install a ceiling fan, etc, too many mistakes to mention. But I never blamed the manufacturer for my mistake. SO, we are not idiots! We are humans that make mistakes. Thats the problem. In this case, Roland did not make the mistake. I.E. did Toyota or Honda built a car with a bad brake system becasue the driver hit the wrong pedal or his foot missed the brake pedal. We'll just the lawyers figure it all out.
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#2263228 - 04/17/14 09:06 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8892
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Originally Posted By: lolatu

What happens when you turn the power on?




Nice. I initially thought that was a clip from 'Back to the Future', but it appears to be from a different movie.

James
x
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#2263229 - 04/17/14 09:09 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
Joe Garfield Offline
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Registered: 10/07/13
Posts: 152
Loc: Ohio, USA
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#2263230 - 04/17/14 09:10 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8892
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

James, do you know if the C8 chassis connector used on all RD-800's?


I'm afraid I don't know. All of the images of the RD-800 back panel I've seen show the two-pinned connector, so I assumed this was standard throughout the world.

Kawai does not produce instruments with different power inlets for different regions.

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2263360 - 04/18/14 05:25 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: dewster
We all find humor in laws and measures that strike us as overly protective, and a lot of that is because we are (or like to think of ourselves as) fully functional. But we share this world with a variety of others who are less fortunate. Regardless of one's current MENSA status, it is depressingly normal to be quite mentally vulnerable during one's formative and final years. Is it a good thing when your teen or aging parent dies in a car accident? Does your young one deserve to drown when she swims in water that doesn't have a lifeguard or an emergency call box? Or maybe it's your fault for not supervising the entirety of your kith and kin 100% of the time?

Very few in this world are so stupid that they don't care what happens to themselves. People who get injured are often bright but engaging in activities that are inherently quite dangerous (driving, swimming) that they often can't avoid even if they wanted to (stairs, slippery tubs, commuting, on-the-job dangers, etc.). This the modern world we live in.


I'm not sure where you're coming from here Dewster. I'm assuming your aversion to this possible theoretical risk with the Roland and some of the other things you are saying means that you want a reduction in overall risk - presumably in 'the world in general' in order to protect those in their "formative years" or whatever.

Notwithstanding that for some hard to define reason I find your attitude somewhat at odds with your general persona and approach to other issues on the forum I do want to take issue with you, or at least air an opinion about risk...

Risk can not be eliminated in any given scenario. It can be reduced but not eliminated. But the issue of risk is incredibly complicated. You mention people dying in car accidents for instance. Now in my opinion - and I have had the difficult task of scraping people up off tarmac too many times - the "risks" associated with driving have been handled very badly by society. Through possibly good intentions we have got ourselves into a situation where cars have become 'safer'. What this actually means is that you are more likely to survive an impact if you are INSIDE a car. What the safety campaigners failed to understand is the change in driver attitude that would result. In my opinion what has actually happened is that drivers feel invulnerable - almost immortal - when behind the wheel. The car's active and passive safety systems will protect them - or so they think on a deep, subconscious level. And the result has been utterly shameful. The burden of risk has massively shifted from those whom were already reasonably well protected (vehicle occupants) to those who were already the most vulnerable. That means cyclists and pedestrians.

We have got things badly wrong because we failed to understand the human psyche. Risk is part of life and it is very important that we are exposed to risk in order to learn and make good decisions around risk. And yes, this even means that we need a proper awareness of consequences - even the most tragic ones - in order to understand our own mortality and that of others when undertaking any activity, whether that is just walking down stairs or across the road or partaking in inherently more dangerous activities. Risk is good insofar as it gives us the opportunity to learn - from our own mistakes and those of others. You may not agree but I think that means that we occasionally need to see/experience/hear about accidents and even fatalities to really understand, process and take a proper account of real risk. And that process means we mentally 'grow' as human beings.

Just trying to make the world ever safer and to try and remove all risk means that we become ill-equipped to make proper judgements about the risks that will always remain.

Just my thoughts anyway.
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#2263365 - 04/18/14 05:47 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: EssBrace]
ando Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/10
Posts: 3523
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Very eloquently put, Steve.

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#2263368 - 04/18/14 06:07 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8892
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: ando
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.


I've got one of those here too. They still don't fit. Spacing is wrong and outer plug doesn't fit the XLR hole. I don't think even the pin thickness is compatible either. Again, you have to butcher the plug and the pins to make it go in there.


dewster's photos suggest otherwise.
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2263387 - 04/18/14 07:46 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: EssBrace]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: EssBrace
I'm not sure where you're coming from here Dewster.

Join the club. It's discovered that the RD800 power plug feels alarmingly at home the XLR chassis connector and people suddenly start talking about final solutions and god sorting it all out.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace
Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba.

I don't know where all the nut allergies came from seemingly all of a sudden, but they are a real and deadly risk to many. Enforcing uniform food product ingredient labeling is one process that helps avoid injury. It may seem taken to a comical extreme when bags of nuts are labeled as containing nuts, but it is just a process, and as such is most effective when slavishly adhered to. I have zero issues with it, and it brings much benefit to those without allergies.
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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#2263423 - 04/18/14 09:13 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
dje31 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/03/10
Posts: 218
Okay, at the risk of ticking-off more users, possibly getting banned, and completely taking this thread off the rails...

Dewster, I get where you're coming from, and you live in Jersey ( I'm originally from CT, so I know how taxes, lawyers, and the nanny state operates ) . Your state gubment doesn't entrust anyone to pump their own gas, resident or otherwise.

A pump jockey---who I'm sure has gone through the requisite training, certification, re-training, and re-certification, on a regular, scheduled basis, no doubt---has to do it for you...for likely an additional $0.15-30 extra per gallon ( probably more these days ) . Because the general public simply can't be entrusted to fill their own tank.

Yeah, I've heard the reasoning about environmental effects from spillage due to overfilling, not replacing the nozzle, driving off with it still attached, cell phones causing explosions, and the insane lawsuits that will no doubt result from these. And in the end, I'm sure it's saving the taxpayers millions as a result. ( sarc )

More likely, it's a union grab and / or service station owners associations and their lobbyists lining the pockets of politicians to legislate it into action and keep it there. Which is one of many reasons why it's so insanely expensive to live in the northeast US.

There are tons of legitimate lawsuits out there...but way too many that aren't, fed by ambulance chasers with commercials during daytime and late night TV, promising BIG CASH SETTLEMENTS.

And class action suits? Who do you think reaps the benefits from those?

The US is one of the only countries worldwide that doesn't have a Loser Pay rule, minimizing frivolous lawsuits, but with most politicians ( and lobbyists ) being lawyers to begin with, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

But hey, be careful out there. It's a dangerous world, even moreso if you're not bright or paying attention. Your cup of hot coffee says its contents just might be not.

FLAME ON!


Edited by dje31 (04/18/14 09:23 AM)
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#2263429 - 04/18/14 09:32 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dje31]
anotherscott Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/20/10
Posts: 3159
Originally Posted By: dje31
A pump jockey---who I'm sure has gone through the requisite training, certification, re-training, and re-certification, on a regular, scheduled basis, no doubt---has to do it for you...for likely an additional $0.15-30 extra per gallon

NJ has some of the lowest gas prices in the country. And some of those pump jockeys might well be otherwise unemployed. So all in all, maybe not a bad deal!

http://www.gasbuddy.com/GB_Price_List.aspx?cntry=USA

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#2263442 - 04/18/14 10:03 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dje31]
bennevis Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/14/10
Posts: 4858
Originally Posted By: dje31

But hey, be careful out there. It's a dangerous world, even more so if you're not bright or paying attention. Your cup of hot coffee says its contents just might be hot.

FLAME ON!

"Where there's blame, there's a claim." grin

You are right, the world is a lot more dangerous than we know. Your carpet could trip you up - sue the carpet (or rather, its manufacturer). Even a stray cockroach could trip you up. Sue the, er.....

And how are we supposed to know whether the coffee in the Starbucks mug is hot or cold, when there is no temperature gauge on the mug? Sue......

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#2263453 - 04/18/14 10:25 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Leaving aside the argument about the nanny state versus the educational value of exposure to risk, I think it was a bad move for Roland to dump the standard IEC three-pin socket in favor of the two-pin type that Nord used to use. Those two-pin cable/socket connections can work loose very easily - the three-pin variety generally provide a much more rigid connection. Also, for pros, they are likely to have spares lying around in their kit - you can even steal one from the sound guy when he's not looking. wink

Basically, if it ain't broke...

OK (as a nod to the pugilists above), after the recent GM debacle of (possibly criminal) neglect over their ignition switches and the resultant deaths, it makes no sense for Roland not to address this issue once it came to light. Informed risk is one thing, reckless endangerment is quite another and does no good to the company's reputation nor its share value. This approach is called pragmatism.
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#2263454 - 04/18/14 10:28 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan]
Kawai James Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 8892
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Well said VP!
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#2263455 - 04/18/14 10:31 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dje31]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: dje31
But hey, be careful out there. It's a dangerous world, even moreso if you're not bright or paying attention. Your cup of hot coffee says its contents just might be not.

I find it highly ironic that the poster child for frivolous lawsuits is Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants:

Liebeck was taken to the hospital, where it was determined that she had suffered third-degree burns on six percent of her skin and lesser burns over sixteen percent. She remained in the hospital for eight days while she underwent skin grafting. During this period, Liebeck lost 20 pounds (9 kg, nearly 20% of her body weight), reducing her to 83 pounds (38 kg). Two years of medical treatment followed.

Liebeck sought to settle with McDonald's for $20,000 to cover her actual and anticipated expenses. Her past medical expenses were $10,500; her anticipated future medical expenses were approximately $2,500; and her loss of income was approximately $5,000 for a total of approximately $18,000. Instead, the company offered only $800.


The fact is that you pretty much have to sue in this country to cover your medical expenses, which might otherwise be ruinous. We'd see a lot fewer of these kinds of court cases if we had universal healthcare, but I guess that's too "nanny state" for the personally responsible, rugged individualist crowd. Not the American way and all that.

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THE RD-700NX Thread!
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#2263504 - 04/18/14 12:06 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: voxpops]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Leaving aside the argument about the nanny state versus the educational value of exposure to risk, I think it was a bad move for Roland to dump the standard IEC three-pin socket in favor of the two-pin type that Nord used to use. Those two-pin cable/socket connections can work loose very easily - the three-pin variety generally provide a much more rigid connection.


Yes, we can probably all agree with this. The three pin type is just better.
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#2263567 - 04/18/14 02:33 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster]
bfb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/11
Posts: 539
Loc: Atlanta GA USA
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

James, do you know if the C8 chassis connector used on all RD-800's?

Jay Roland, could you please weigh in on this whole issue?



i think Jay's done left the building.
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#2263602 - 04/18/14 03:25 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: voxpops]
dewster Online   content
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4339
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
...I think it was a bad move for Roland to dump the standard IEC three-pin socket in favor of the two-pin type that Nord used to use.

I like the 3 pin as well and for the reasons you list, but designing it into a product might require the manufacturer to electrically connect the ground wire to something inside. With the 2 pin Roland seems to have been going for a non-grounded design.
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#2263656 - 04/18/14 04:50 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: bfb]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 848
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: bfb
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

James, do you know if the C8 chassis connector used on all RD-800's?

Jay Roland, could you please weigh in on this whole issue?



i think Jay's done left the building.



Well, don't bash Jay. Im sure Roland has given him strict orders not to say anything until a resolution has been announced. Roland Jay, Kawai James, and Casio Mike are more than willing to help. But we have to remember they are employees of their companies and do not want to jeopardize their jobs by speaking out. Im sure it is tempting for the three to speak their minds sometimes. We on the forum have to understand that they can not jeopardize their jobs and have to respect that. I.E. how many time have we asked James in the past year to give us clues on the MP7 and MP11???
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#2263660 - 04/18/14 04:57 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
voxpops Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 3021
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Well, don't bash Jay. Im sure Roland has given him strict orders not to say anything until a resolution has been announced.

I agree, and it's completely understandable. And I'm sure this decision was not taken lightly. It must be a major headache to have to deal with this kind of thing just after product launch.
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#2263671 - 04/18/14 05:15 PM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
Jay Roland Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/08/13
Posts: 203
Loc: Vancouver, BC.
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Originally Posted By: bfb
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

James, do you know if the C8 chassis connector used on all RD-800's?

Jay Roland, could you please weigh in on this whole issue?



i think Jay's done left the building.



Well, don't bash Jay. Im sure Roland has given him strict orders not to say anything until a resolution has been announced. Roland Jay, Kawai James, and Casio Mike are more than willing to help. But we have to remember they are employees of their companies and do not want to jeopardize their jobs by speaking out. Im sure it is tempting for the three to speak their minds sometimes. We on the forum have to understand that they can not jeopardize their jobs and have to respect that. I.E. how many time have we asked James in the past year to give us clue on the MP7 and MP11???


Thanks for the support Marko.

I've been out in Toronto visiting music stores and taking care of business the last 8 days. So haven't had a chance to weigh in. So let me make my only comment I can.

There really is not much I can say here. Roland Japan and the various Roland companies around the world have been hard at work dealing with this. it would be completely irresponsible of me to speak for anyone at this point, hence my silence.

I'm looking forward to resuming the sales of RD800 which have been robust, and getting this awesome stage piano in more player's rigs.

Jay


Edited by Jay Roland (04/18/14 06:21 PM)
Edit Reason: horrible grammar
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www.roland.ca
t: RCMPianoGuy

I'm sure that Jay (along with every other product manager in recorded history) is quite accustomed to hearing different customers assert "X" and "not-X" with equal conviction. - slowtraveler

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#2264413 - 04/20/14 12:54 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Marko in Boston]
pv88 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/31/10
Posts: 2610
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Roland Jay, Kawai James, and Casio Mike are more than willing to help.


And, when (and, who) might we get as a spokesperson for Yamaha?

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#2264450 - 04/20/14 02:10 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: pv88]
36251 Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 726
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Roland Jay, Kawai James, and Casio Mike are more than willing to help.


And, when (and, who) might we get as a spokesperson for Yamaha?
Maybe a representative from their Motorcycle division or their Watercraft division can chime in.
_________________________
AG N2, CP4, GK MK & MP

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#2264473 - 04/20/14 06:53 AM Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: pv88]
Marko in Boston Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 848
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: pv88
Originally Posted By: Marko in Boston
Roland Jay, Kawai James, and Casio Mike are more than willing to help.


And, when (and, who) might we get as a spokesperson for Yamaha?


I think the Yamaha rep is hiding after reading all the negative CP4 reviews.

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