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#2262746 - 04/16/14 07:11 PM Mozart K310 fingering
Morodiene Offline
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I'm working on K310 1st mvt, and wondering what fingering I should use for LH m. 42-43. The measures in question are the 2nd and 3rd measure below:





At first I was doing 4-1-3-2-4-1-3-2, etc., but was wondering if there's another option that you've used and prefer over this.
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#2262812 - 04/16/14 10:21 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
hreichgott Online   content
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Those are the measures, aren't they wink

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#2262818 - 04/16/14 10:48 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
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I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.

If it were me I'd play with both, but I can imagine going with the 3-1 solution.


-Jason
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#2262826 - 04/16/14 11:37 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Derulux Offline
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4132 is the only consistently comfortable fingering I've found for those passages.
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#2262840 - 04/17/14 12:19 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Mark_C Online   content
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I'm with 4132 also.

Morodiene, I wonder if maybe the main reason it's not comfortable for you is how you're dividing it up, in both your mind and your hand. Are you thinking of it as being divided according to the beat?
i.e. 4132 4132 etc.?

Yes, that's the music. But it's not the physicality.
The physicality is:
4 1324 1324 etc.

That doesn't mean you accent the thumbs, which is what it might look like, since '1' begins each group. And indeed that's what would happen with this mental and physical grouping, if we're not careful. But the thing is, if you view it the "metric" way, i.e. the first way, then what you're probably doing physically is, scrunching your hand between the 1st and 2nd notes of each group, in order to connect 4 and 1.

Don't connect 4 and 1.

OK, I just lied. grin

Sure you connect 4 and 1. But don't be fanatic about connecting them in the usual kind of way, i.e. by bringing the two fingers close to each other; do a lot of it by moving the hand, as opposed to scrunching the fingers together -- which is awkward, tension-inducing, and I think for most people, therefore ultimately unmusical. And above all, think of it as 4 1324 1324, not 4132 4132.

My old teacher Seymour Bernstein has an adage for passages like this: "Rhythm is the enemy of technique." Chopin especially is full of things like this, where the best way to approach the technique of a passage is by dividing the groups in a way that goes against how they look on the page.

(So.....what do you think?)

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#2262847 - 04/17/14 12:36 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
TwoSnowflakes Online   blank
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Just to add more to the chorus for 4132, I guess I worked it out the same way:



Now, to be fair, I did NOT finish this movement before I mercifully put it aside to work on a Haydn sonata until I could come back to it, but I'm fairly certain the barrier was not the fingering, it was the pianist.

wink
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#2262850 - 04/17/14 12:43 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
Derulux Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm with 4132 also.

Morodiene, I wonder if maybe the main reason it's not comfortable for you is how you're dividing it up, in both your mind and your hand. Are you thinking of it as being divided according to the beat?
i.e. 4132 4132 etc.?

Yes, that's the music. But it's not the physicality.
The physicality is:
4 1324 1324 etc.

That doesn't mean you accent the thumbs, which is what it might look like, since '1' begins each group. And indeed that's what would happen with this mental and physical grouping, if we're not careful. But the thing is, if you view it the "metric" way, i.e. the first way, then what you're probably doing physically is, scrunching your hand between the 1st and 2nd notes of each group, in order to connect 4 and 1.

Don't connect 4 and 1.

OK, I just lied. grin

Sure you connect 4 and 1. But don't be fanatic about connecting them in the usual kind of way, i.e. by bringing the two fingers close to each other; do a lot of it by moving the hand, as opposed to scrunching the fingers together -- which is awkward, tension-inducing, and I think for most people, therefore ultimately unmusical. And above all, think of it as 4 1324 1324, not 4132 4132.

My old teacher Seymour Bernstein has an adage for passages like this: "Rhythm is the enemy of technique." Chopin especially is full of things like this, where the best way to approach the technique of a passage is by dividing the groups in a way that goes against how they look on the page.

(So.....what do you think?)

Outstanding addition. Thank you so much for posting that, Mark. As many times as I comment on this kind of thing, I actually never would have thought of it hear. But now that I do think about it, you couldn't be more rite. smile

(And yes, a very subtle intention in the misspellings, but deliberate nonetheless. grin )
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#2262864 - 04/17/14 01:23 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: beet31425]
JohnSprung Offline
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.


That or how about 2-1 all the way?
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#2262921 - 04/17/14 03:41 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: beet31425]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.

That's what I do, but don't tell my students that!

I make my students do 4-1-3-2.

There are also a couple of other icky passages in this movement. The L.H. of the development section is murderous.
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#2262923 - 04/17/14 03:43 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: AZNpiano]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.

That's what I do, but don't tell my students that!

I make my students do 4-1-3-2.

Why would you make your students do something you don't do yourself?
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#2262927 - 04/17/14 03:52 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Polyphonist]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.

That's what I do, but don't tell my students that!

I make my students do 4-1-3-2.

Why would you make your students do something you don't do yourself?

There's this thing called muscle memory.

I learned the piece way back in high school with a very VERY bad teacher (who is still teaching!), but the fingering is stuck in me. In addition to this Mozart, half of my Bach Inventions have lousy fingering. I just don't have the time nor the desire to go back and fix these bad habits.

And that's why I insist on having my students use the best fingering possible.
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#2262929 - 04/17/14 04:23 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: AZNpiano]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: beet31425
I would also experiment with doing 3-1 all the way down.

That's what I do, but don't tell my students that!

I make my students do 4-1-3-2....

Since nobody's said this yet about the "3-1" thing, and somebody's got to say it....

"3-1-3-1" vs. "4-1-3-2" is far from just a technical question. It's more a musical question.

Playing "3-1 all the way down" almost inevitably results in a different kind of playing, more of an "every-note", "pointilist" thing; "4-1-3-2" results in a more lyrical thing.

So, I think you make a mistake if you decide to play "3-1 all the way down" unless it's part of a decision that you want more of an "every-note" effect than a quasi-lyrical effect. In fact, I think the better way to put it is, you start with how you want it to sound, and then make sure that the fingering you choose suits it.

A corollary of this (I think corollary is the right word) grin would be that the most skilled musician/pianists would be capable of doing it either way, perhaps on the fly, according to what interpretation they wish to give it in that instance.

Or, how about this, if we really want to get fancy: Start with 4-1-3-2, then at some point toward the bottom, switch to 3-1-3-1 for more brilliance (and clarity, which is harder to get down there on our nowadays pianos). I mean, I'd never attempt anything like that. I'm talking about people who can do more than I can. smile

I've always thought of it more 'lyrically' (relatively speaking), and so I'd never think of even trying "3-1 all the way down."

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#2262931 - 04/17/14 05:10 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
bennevis Online   content
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I haven't played this work for decades, but my old score showed that I used 4-1-3-2. I don't think 3-1 all the way down was ever on the cards from my teacher then.

But now that I don't have a teacher, I might just have a go at re-learning it - with 3-1 all the way..... grin

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#2262966 - 04/17/14 08:39 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
hreichgott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I'm with 4132 also.
...
the best way to approach the technique of a passage is by dividing the groups in a way that goes against how they look on the page.

(So.....what do you think?)

thumb
Rotation helps too. Rotation works with either 4132 or 3131.
The advantage of 4132 over 3131 is aim and speed in my experience. Easier to aim a smaller number of 4-note groups than a larger number of 2-note groups. Basically for all the reasons Mark_C said.

(Of course, I think Morodiene already knows all that.)

PS It is nice having this kind of discussion on the forum again.
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#2262971 - 04/17/14 08:55 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Offline
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Just woke up, I guess you guys are all late posters! I konk out at about 10 pm lol.

Thanks for the great advice everyone. I did imagine the 3-1 all the way down, but that seemed to "plodding." I even considered a crazy 2-1-3-2-4-3-5-1 thing, but I knew at a higher speed that 3rd on the 2-1 would get me, and I try to avoid playing 4 and 5 so close together on a fast passage if ever possible.

So 4-3-2-1 it is! (or rather, 4 3214). I agree that maybe grouping it differently will help with the choppy feeling I was hearing. I'm in the very beginning stages of this piece, so I wanted to get good fingering from the start.

Now the tricky part will be to make that in the background while bringing out the RH melody. One of many fish to fry in this piece. I have wanted to play this since grad school, and I finally feel capable. We'll see about that smile
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#2263093 - 04/17/14 02:14 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
A corollary of this (I think corollary is the right word) grin would be that the most skilled musician/pianists would be capable of doing it either way, perhaps on the fly, according to what interpretation they wish to give it in that instance.

That's what I do, but usually I wouldn't even be aware of what fingering I'm using. (There's also a third fingering, by the way.)
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#2263188 - 04/17/14 06:28 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
beet31425 Online   content
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I will admit: I might feel a little silly with 1313... (Otherwise known as "13/99": think repeated decimals.)

But I think we should try lots of fingerings, not just the ones that seem proper. My teacher has opened up my eyes to "ridiculous", but really wonderful fingerings, e.g. a "33" in a fast RH passage of Chopin's first scherzo. Schnabel's Beethoven Sonatas are filled with these kinds of ridiculous, brilliant fingerings. Not that he'd ever do 1313 here in a million years.

-J
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#2263193 - 04/17/14 06:35 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: beet31425]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
....My teacher has opened up my eyes to "ridiculous", but really wonderful fingerings, e.g. a "33" in a fast RH passage of Chopin's first scherzo....

Wherever that is (and I can't even guess!), I think it's a sure bet that this was along the lines of what I said in an earlier post: It was because this fingering better enabled a particular musical goal, in line with a particular interpretation -- not simply because it was technically preferable.

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#2263234 - 04/17/14 09:27 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Offline
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Weird thing is, the 1-3 is super easy. I just tried it and I don't have to slow down at all and I can then focus more on what I'm doing in the RH. I'll see how far this gets me, and if need be I'll work the other fingering.

Another question: at m. 40, the RH is playing a Quarter note on treble C and the LH then comes in a 16th note later and plays the same C and then moves down the scale. I'm having difficulty playing the C with the RH, then have the LH come in then move off while still holding down the C for the full quarter note value. I was thinking of cheating and just playing the C twice with the RH (16th-dotted 8th) and not at all with the LH.

Any other ideas?
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#2263236 - 04/17/14 09:38 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
hreichgott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Morodiene
at m. 40, the RH is playing a Quarter note on treble C and the LH then comes in a 16th note later and plays the same C and then moves down the scale. I'm having difficulty playing the C with the RH, then have the LH come in then move off while still holding down the C for the full quarter note value. I was thinking of cheating and just playing the C twice with the RH (16th-dotted 8th) and not at all with the LH.

Any other ideas?

You will be going so fast that it will not matter in the least, especially if you tap the pedal.
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#2263257 - 04/17/14 10:20 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: hreichgott]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
at m. 40, the RH is playing a Quarter note on treble C and the LH then comes in a 16th note later and plays the same C and then moves down the scale. I'm having difficulty playing the C with the RH, then have the LH come in then move off while still holding down the C for the full quarter note value. I was thinking of cheating and just playing the C twice with the RH (16th-dotted 8th) and not at all with the LH.

Any other ideas?

You will be going so fast that it will not matter in the least, especially if you tap the pedal.


Good, then I won't worry about it. Thanks smile
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#2263261 - 04/17/14 10:32 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
prout Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
....My teacher has opened up my eyes to "ridiculous", but really wonderful fingerings, e.g. a "33" in a fast RH passage of Chopin's first scherzo....

Wherever that is (and I can't even guess!), I think it's a sure bet that this was along the lines of what I said in an earlier post: It was because this fingering better enabled a particular musical goal, in line with a particular interpretation -- not simply because it was technically preferable.

33 is a slide from a black to a white note. Can be done with any finger. Very useful.

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#2263312 - 04/18/14 01:59 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Derulux Offline
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Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
at m. 40, the RH is playing a Quarter note on treble C and the LH then comes in a 16th note later and plays the same C and then moves down the scale. I'm having difficulty playing the C with the RH, then have the LH come in then move off while still holding down the C for the full quarter note value. I was thinking of cheating and just playing the C twice with the RH (16th-dotted 8th) and not at all with the LH.

Any other ideas?

You will be going so fast that it will not matter in the least, especially if you tap the pedal.

Good, then I won't worry about it. Thanks smile

It also isn't a quarter note in the version I'm looking at. grin

But if you want to play it that way, I would play it first with the RH, then restrike with the LH. Hold the value with the LH, and go down to 4 on the G, and finger the 2nd beat 4131, then you can use 2131 2132 4 and repeat.
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#2263313 - 04/18/14 02:02 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: prout]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: prout
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
....My teacher has opened up my eyes to "ridiculous", but really wonderful fingerings, e.g. a "33" in a fast RH passage of Chopin's first scherzo....

Wherever that is (and I can't even guess!), I think it's a sure bet that this was along the lines of what I said in an earlier post: It was because this fingering better enabled a particular musical goal, in line with a particular interpretation -- not simply because it was technically preferable.

33 is a slide from a black to a white note. Can be done with any finger. Very useful.

Well, I know that. grin
What I didn't know was where.

To Jason (Beet314): Y'know, I was going through the piece in my head to try to see where this might be, and I thought I had the passage where it could be, but then looked in the score, and came up empty. So, I think it's nowhere. ha

UNLESS.....there is one place.....and now that I think about it, I do think "3-3" is the best fingering, for a certain musical effect, which is probably exactly the point. And it's the musical effect I want, even though when I played the piece, I think I didn't do it. But if I play it again, I think I will.

CODA, end of m. 353 going into 354, and again similarly in 355-356.
Even though I started out thinking it's no big deal to do it there because you can sort of do whatever you want, I owe you and your teacher a thank you. Even if that's not the place. smile

(I think I played what is probably the more obvious and more common fingering: 121212 323232 121212 323232)

And BTW, if I do it, I'd probably also do "2-2" between 354 and 355, for the same reason, and therefore I'd be doing:

232323 323232 232323 323232

You could easily avoid 2-2 by doing:

131313 323232 131313 etc.

....but I think the extra articulation you'd get with the first fingering would be better.


EDIT: When I first did this post, I made a mistake by saying that the "2-2" would be from a white note to a black note, rather than black to white like Prout said for this kind of thing in general. Dunno what I was thinking. Most assuredly it's from black to white also.


Edited by Mark_C (04/18/14 02:38 AM)

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#2263325 - 04/18/14 02:40 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
beet31425 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
[To Jason (Beet314): Y'know, I was going through the piece in my head to try to see where this might be, and I thought I had the passage where it could be, but then looked in the score, and came up empty. So, I think it's nowhere. ha

Oh, Mark... I'm so sorry to have wasted your time!

Looking through the score, I see that it wasn't a 33 at all! All I really remembered was that it was an unconventional fingering that totally worked, and that opened my eyes to the possibilities of unconventional fingerings. In particular, it showed me that sudden hand repositionings were possible, even within fluid lines.

Now that I have my score, I'll tell you exactly what it was: In measure 37, I use (probably like most people) 231234. But I was having trouble with a 5 on the next note, the D# (first note of m.38). I mean, I could play it, and play it at speed, but that part of the line just got swallowed up a bit. So the interesting fingering was to use a *2* on that D#. So that I'm playing 4 -> 2 on C# -> D#. Try it and see what you think!

I'm not sure that I find very useful your idea of "fingerings for the sake of the music". That may be the case if I had a perfect technique, but in the real world there are always compromises. My teacher didn't suggest the 2 out of the blue just for the musicality of it; but when we saw I was having some trouble, she suggested it, as a helpful and still musically viable alternative. And, actually, it works great, and really gives the line some vigor!

-Jason

EDIT: Actually, re-reading this, of course "fingerings for the sake of the music" is a useful and important idea. I just think there are grey areas too.


Edited by beet31425 (04/18/14 02:43 AM)
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#2263326 - 04/18/14 02:45 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: beet31425]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: beet31425
....I'm so sorry to have wasted your time!

You didn't at all. You blessed me with a new and great fingering, although by accident. grin

Quote:
....I'll tell you exactly what it was: In measure 37....

That's the passage (not the exact place, but close) where I originally thought the "3-3" might be, from going through the piece in my head -- like about a couple of measures later.

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#2263339 - 04/18/14 03:50 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: beet31425]
Polyphonist Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
CODA, end of m. 353 going into 354, and again similarly in 355-356.

You then made a substantial post describing the section. I'm confused because in my edition 353 is not in the coda at all; it falls in the middle of the trio.

Originally Posted By: beet31425
Now that I have my score, I'll tell you exactly what it was: In measure 37, I use (probably like most people) 231234. But I was having trouble with a 5 on the next note, the D# (first note of m.38). I mean, I could play it, and play it at speed, but that part of the line just got swallowed up a bit. So the interesting fingering was to use a *2* on that D#. So that I'm playing 4 -> 2 on C# -> D#. Try it and see what you think!

You never tried 234123/41 etc?
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#2263344 - 04/18/14 04:07 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Polyphonist]
Mark_C Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Polyphonist
....I'm confused because in my edition 353 is not in the coda at all; it falls in the middle of the trio....

I'm guessing that your score has some repeated sections written out rather than indicated by repeat marks as is done in other editions. I got the measure numbers from something called the Pierre Gouin edition (never heard of it before) on IMSLP. (The reason I clicked on that one was, it just seemed likely to include measure numbers, which most Chopin scores on IMSLP don't. Most of my own scores are in storage so I couldn't check those.)

The measures I talked about are the trill-like thingees right before the low F# octave and the famous repeated dissonant chord, which I guess is (let's see how I am on "analysis") grin .....I guess it's the dominant 7th of the Neapolitan but with a tonic dominant bass.

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#2263367 - 04/18/14 06:06 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
wouter79 Offline
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But if 31 is an option, why not just 21?

But looking at the figure itself, the 1 on the 2nd beat of each figure seems not so good. And 21 21 breaks the figure into two smaller figures which I think is not the idea here.

And the 4132 seems just too inviting to slur the 2 back to the 4

How about 1243 ?
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#2263382 - 04/18/14 07:05 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: wouter79]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: wouter79
But if 31 is an option, why not just 21?

But looking at the figure itself, the 1 on the 2nd beat of each figure seems not so good. And 21 21 breaks the figure into two smaller figures which I think is not the idea here.

And the 4132 seems just too inviting to slur the 2 back to the 4

How about 1243 ?


I doubt at tempo there will be any idea of slurring going on smile . I think your suggestion would result in tension in my thumb at keeping it in a position of crossing under. It's fine for a few beats but after that it's problematic.
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#2263383 - 04/18/14 07:07 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Derulux]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: Derulux
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
Originally Posted By: hreichgott
Originally Posted By: Morodiene
at m. 40, the RH is playing a Quarter note on treble C and the LH then comes in a 16th note later and plays the same C and then moves down the scale. I'm having difficulty playing the C with the RH, then have the LH come in then move off while still holding down the C for the full quarter note value. I was thinking of cheating and just playing the C twice with the RH (16th-dotted 8th) and not at all with the LH.

Any other ideas?

You will be going so fast that it will not matter in the least, especially if you tap the pedal.

Good, then I won't worry about it. Thanks smile

It also isn't a quarter note in the version I'm looking at. grin

But if you want to play it that way, I would play it first with the RH, then restrike with the LH. Hold the value with the LH, and go down to 4 on the G, and finger the 2nd beat 4131, then you can use 2131 2132 4 and repeat.

I think if another edition doesn't even have that quarter note (is it a 16th?) then there's no need to be fussy about it, IMO. Great suggestion though, thanks!
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#2263407 - 04/18/14 08:38 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Mark_C]
prout Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: prout
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: beet31425
....My teacher has opened up my eyes to "ridiculous", but really wonderful fingerings, e.g. a "33" in a fast RH passage of Chopin's first scherzo....

Wherever that is (and I can't even guess!), I think it's a sure bet that this was along the lines of what I said in an earlier post: It was because this fingering better enabled a particular musical goal, in line with a particular interpretation -- not simply because it was technically preferable.

33 is a slide from a black to a white note. Can be done with any finger. Very useful.

Well, I know that. grin
What I didn't know was where.

Obviously, I don't sight read words very well. I thought you said 'whatever'. mea culpa

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#2263709 - 04/18/14 06:23 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
hreichgott Online   content
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Yep, the score I downloaded from IMSLP (Breitkopf & Hartel?) has a 16th, while my Peters Urtext has a quarter note.
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#2263811 - 04/18/14 09:06 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
TwoSnowflakes Online   blank
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I have three copies of this sonata. Presser, Weiner, and Henle.

All three have the C as a quarter note.

What I was doing was hitting the C with the right hand, and then clearing off, LH comes in and holds the second C with 1 while 2, 3 play B, A sixteenth notes. Thumb up at the same time 3 releases A, 4 plays G, LH thumb now ready to come back into action on next note A.

I'm not sure I'm making sense, but that's what I was doing.
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#2263858 - 04/18/14 10:11 PM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: TwoSnowflakes]
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted By: TwoSnowflakes
I have three copies of this sonata. Presser, Weiner, and Henle.

All three have the C as a quarter note.

What I was doing was hitting the C with the right hand, and then clearing off, LH comes in and holds the second C with 1 while 2, 3 play B, A sixteenth notes. Thumb up at the same time 3 releases A, 4 plays G, LH thumb now ready to come back into action on next note A.

I'm not sure I'm making sense, but that's what I was doing.

Makes sense, and it is what was previously suggested. OK, majority rules, so I'll assume it should be a quarter and try this method out. Thanks smile
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#2263973 - 04/19/14 08:44 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
TwoSnowflakes Online   blank
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So, when I bought the Weiner version, I got the "facsimile" along with it because they didn't have any more left of the version without it.

It fell on the floor when I was looking for the measure in the printed score.

So this morning I picked it up to put it back and looked inside, and for whatever it's worth, it's a quarter note in Mozart's own hand, too, with two more quarter rests, then the eighth notes in the RH for the fourth beat. LH has sixteenth rest, then the sixteenth notes for the rest of the measure, phrasing over the sixteenth notes, under the rests:



I guess I finally found a purpose for the extra 5€ I spent on one sonata (the version without the high quality copy of the autograph was 10€ and this one was 15€). Though, given the fact that a) it probably doesn't much matter, and b) we've already come to a general consensus it's a quarter note anyway, I can't quiiiiite declare it 5€ well spent. Considering where I was when I spent it and the likelihood I'll ever need to refer to it for my own purposes, 5€ would have been more fun/tasty spent elsewhere. The café next door does a darn good espresso and breakfast pastry.
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With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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#2263984 - 04/19/14 09:10 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
Morodiene Offline
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Still, it's nice to have that confirmation from the source. I think 5 euro isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things, and you have something that lasts longer than a coffee and pastry. wink
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#2263990 - 04/19/14 09:23 AM Re: Mozart K310 fingering [Re: Morodiene]
TwoSnowflakes Online   blank
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Well, enjoy! I, for my part, am going to go need to get myself some breakfast. I'll make it a Viennese coffee in Mozart's honor. And eat a croissant with it since the sonata was composed in Paris.

smile
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Brahms, Op. 118 No. 2 Intermezzo A major
Chopin, Mazurka Op. 67 No.4
With the pedal I love to meddle; When Paderewski comes this way... -Irving Berlin

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